i dont care if OTT does not get a top 4 D in a trade as long as they do not sign a pylon and get rid of Zeitsev this would be a win IMO, play Thompson with Chabot and Zub with Sanderson and hope he does not have trouble.

Chych would be the perfect trade, can play both sides, if Sanderson struggles and need time in bellville Chych can step right in the 2LD spot with ease.

Either trade for Chych or play Thompson not hard to figure out....
- Mithos

Well said, I agree......lets see if DJ actually sticks to what he said a few weeks ago...that the players will play. If that had of been the case last year, then Thomson would've started the season in Ottawa. Even Brannstrom had a better camp than both MDZ and Zaitsev.

Saw this on Twitter, great tweet!

Tim #Stützle (20) finished his 2nd season scoring 58 points in 79 games. Fellow countryman #Draisaitl reached 51 points in 72 games in his 2nd season (as a 20 year old). If Stu gets close to 77 points in year 3 like Leon did, #Sens fans will be ecstatic!
- Kevin Francis

Good tweet for sure. I think Stutzle has the potential to be close to what Leon is, if that's true, man oh man the Sens will have 4 SOLID young studs and 1 or 2 good players behind that. I really hope they can add a D-man, I have a feeling like something will happen (even if it's not JC from Arizona)

They don't *need* to trade Zaitsev or add another D man. Unless he blows everyone out of the water at camp, put him through waivers and eat his salary in the minors, then buy him out next year. They did it to MDZ, why not NZ? Thomson should get the shot - he's been playing grown up hockey for 3 years already, and has only shown progress. The biggest uncertainty this team is currently facing is not on the blue line, it's what this team will look like if we lose two top 9 players, which is very much a possibility. IMO, don't mortgage the future and trade first round futures until that gets settled.

They don't *need* to trade Zaitsev or add another D man. Unless he blows everyone out of the water at camp, put him through waivers and eat his salary in the minors, then buy him out next year. They did it to MDZ, why not NZ? The biggest uncertainty this team is currently facing is not on the blue line, it's what this team will look like if we lose two top 9 players, which is very much a possibility. IMO, don't mortgage the future and trade first round futures until that gets settled.
- Bartacus

Well you would have to think that the NHL will release its findings from their investigation by next Friday, that way the news goes away on the weekend, they will be calculated when they release it and Friday afternoon is when bad news gets released! Camps would then open the following week.....but I agree, the team needs to know what is happening. That's why they signed Jayce H. at the money they did on a 2 way....he's a LW and has NHL experience, so if they need him for a bit he can slide in....or they bring in a LW on a PTO!

They don't *need* to trade Zaitsev or add another D man. Unless he blows everyone out of the water at camp, put him through waivers and eat his salary in the minors, then buy him out next year. They did it to MDZ, why not NZ? Thomson should get the shot - he's been playing grown up hockey for 3 years already, and has only shown progress. The biggest uncertainty this team is currently facing is not on the blue line, it's what this team will look like if we lose two top 9 players, which is very much a possibility. IMO, don't mortgage the future and trade first round futures until that gets settled.
- Bartacus

A voice of reason. Thank you.

They DO NEED to trade, or release or cut, or put Zaitsev somewhere-anywhere away from this coach.


That's the urgency here. This coach will revert to playing people "he believes" are active qualified trust worthy defensemen. Zaitsev is not one of those. He's a panic machine who plays hot potato with the puck and gets his D partners injured.

He will anchor each pair with a veteran. But not the right ones.

Chabot-Zaitsev
Hamonic-Sanderson
Zub - Holden
are you starting six....put that down in "pen". This is the way he thinks.
He's been told by the GM to get shiny new kid into the line up but insulate him. Thompson and JBD will out perform Z, H and H in camp but it won't matter.

When they drop the first 5/6 games of season running that idiotic defense he'll get fired.

They don't *need* to trade Zaitsev or add another D man. Unless he blows everyone out of the water at camp, put him through waivers and eat his salary in the minors, then buy him out next year. They did it to MDZ, why not NZ? Thomson should get the shot - he's been playing grown up hockey for 3 years already, and has only shown progress. The biggest uncertainty this team is currently facing is not on the blue line, it's what this team will look like if we lose two top 9 players, which is very much a possibility. IMO, don't mortgage the future and trade first round futures until that gets settled.
- Bartacus

You are probably right.

But they have so much goodwill invested in this summer reset. They need to win.

If they do not win, folks will focus blame on the inadequate blue line. They will be very quick to question why the obvious was not fixed.

So much has been done to improve this team. I find it hard to believe they will not make one more significant move to bolster the D.

They DO NEED to trade, or release or cut, or put Zaitsev somewhere-anywhere away from this coach.


That's the urgency here. This coach will revert to playing people "he believes" are active qualified trust worthy defensemen. Zaitsev is not one of those. He's a panic machine who plays hot potato with the puck and gets his D partners injured.

He will anchor each pair with a veteran. But not the right ones.

Chabot-Zaitsev
Hamonic-Sanderson
Zub - Holden
are you starting six....put that down in "pen". This is the way he thinks.
He's been told by the GM to get shiny new kid into the line up but insulate him. Thompson and JBD will out perform Z, H and H in camp but it won't matter.

When they drop the first 5/6 games of season running that idiotic defense he'll get fired.
- Octavarium

This is how I feel as well. Smith needs his toys taken away to play the right guys. Seems like the real problem is Smith, but that won't change unless they lose. Zaitsev works as 3rd pair, or even second pair if there was a stabalizing force on the other side; but DJ sees him as the stabalizing force, that's the problem.

This is how I feel as well. Smith needs his toys taken away to play the right guys. Seems like the real problem is Smith, but that won't change unless they lose. Zaitsev works as 3rd pair, or even second pair if there was a stabalizing force on the other side; but DJ sees him as the stabalizing force, that's the problem.
- CooCooKaChoo

We blame DJ for deployment justifiably, but it's Dorion who controls who goes on waivers. Based off his confident moves this summer I am reasonably optimistic that Dorion, unhampered by a 'need to get my value out of the investment' ownership will make the move to take that option away from the coach should it become an issue. Yes, it'll make the trade for Zaitsev look myopic but let's face it, most of us here didn't like it when it happened, and we were right - it was an objectively terrible return to take on an albatross and help a team who has subsequently paid a first round pick to take ONE year of another big contract. We got a couple useless unwinning years with Connor Brown and five (!!) years of Zaitsev. Point is, you don't need to trade away futures to get the player off the ice, we're not spending to the cap so the money shouldn't be an issue. All it takes is some humility.

The forward group looks strong. It will be interesting to see if they spend a lot of time running around in their own end chasing the puck.

Right now they've got Chabot, Zub, Holden, Zaitsev, Hamonic and Brannstrom on D. Smith might give Sanderson a few games but if he's paired with either Hamonic or Zaitsev who even Chabot struggles with then it will be tough for him to look good enough to stay and Smith will happily ship him off to Belleville for seasoning. That's a recipe for defensive zone struggles with forwards spending entire shifts in their own zone.

Dorion's problem with acquiring a solid RD is that every GM in the league is dead set on out and out robbing him. It's nice to think that some PTO guy will help smooth things over and make Dorion seem less desperate but that's a stretch in my opinion.

I would play Thomson or JBD, whichever is showing better, with Chabot, Zub with Sanderson and Holden with one of Hamonic, Brannstrom or some PTO guy. Sink or swim, guys, but don't get friggin robbed! There will still be hockey after this season.

I wonder which option Dorion will choose. Letting yourself get robbed is the safest option because most people will sing your praises to the heavens and you've still got your get out of jail free card which is firing Smith if things go south for any number of reasons. I'm hoping Dorion proves to be a better GM than I've given him credit for to this point. He sure seems to be a survivor.

Just to clarify - letting yourself get robbed is not what I would choose. The problem as many have noted is Smith. He makes it almost impossible to do anything that makes sense.

We blame DJ for deployment justifiably, but it's Dorion who controls who goes on waivers. Based off his confident moves this summer I am reasonably optimistic that Dorion, unhampered by a 'need to get my value out of the investment' ownership will make the move to take that option away from the coach should it become an issue. Yes, it'll make the trade for Zaitsev look myopic but let's face it, most of us here didn't like it when it happened, and we were right - it was an objectively terrible return to take on an albatross and help a team who has subsequently paid a first round pick to take ONE year of another big contract. We got a couple useless unwinning years with Connor Brown and five (!!) years of Zaitsev. Point is, you don't need to trade away futures to get the player off the ice, we're not spending to the cap so the money shouldn't be an issue. All it takes is some humility.
- Bartacus

Zaitsev was 5th among Ottawa defensemen for time on ice this past season. I think there is a need to upgrade the D and Zaitsev is the best guy to be moved out. But the idea that Smith overplays him (relative to others) does not appear to be the case. A more realistic interpretation of the numbers is that Ottawa is missing at least one stud defenseman capable of playing against the opposing teams top lines.

I think it is mistake for folks to think it all improves just by moving Zaitsev out.

Who is the top 4 Dman they need to add (regardless if Zaitsev moves or not)?

The forward group looks strong. It will be interesting to see if they spend a lot of time running around in their own end chasing the puck.

Right now they've got Chabot, Zub, Holden, Zaitsev, Hamonic and Brannstrom on D. Smith might give Sanderson a few games but if he's paired with either Hamonic or Zaitsev who even Chabot struggles with then it will be tough for him to look good enough to stay and Smith will happily ship him off to Belleville for seasoning. That's a recipe for defensive zone struggles with forwards spending entire shifts in their own zone.

Dorion's problem with acquiring a solid RD is that every GM in the league is dead set on out and out robbing him. It's nice to think that some PTO guy will help smooth things over and make Dorion seem less desperate but that's a stretch in my opinion.

I would play Thomson or JBD, whichever is showing better, with Chabot, Zub with Sanderson and Holden with one of Hamonic, Brannstrom or some PTO guy. Sink or swim, guys, but don't get friggin robbed! There will still be hockey after this season.

I wonder which option Dorion will choose. Letting yourself get robbed is the safest option because most people will sing your praises to the heavens and you've still got your get out of jail free card which is firing Smith if things go south for any number of reasons. I'm hoping Dorion proves to be a better GM than I've given him credit for to this point. He sure seems to be a survivor.

Just to clarify - letting yourself get robbed is not what I would choose. The problem as many have noted is Smith. He makes it almost impossible to do anything that makes sense.
- Whatisavailable

This is exceptionally good.

Most hockey fans are highly transactional when it come to trades. They want to evaluate each trade and declare a winner and a loser.

I agree this is a time where Dorion makes the right move, even if he allows himself to overpay for the right guy. The only thing that matters is if it is the right move in making the Sens a contender.

Zaitsev was 5th among Ottawa defensemen for time on ice this past season. I think there is a need to upgrade the D and Zaitsev is the best guy to be moved out. But the idea that Smith overplays him (relative to others) does not appear to be the case. A more realistic interpretation of the numbers is that Ottawa is missing at least one stud defenseman capable of playing against the opposing teams top lines.

I think it is mistake for folks to think it all improves just by moving Zaitsev out.

Who is the top 4 Dman they need to add (regardless if Zaitsev moves or not)?
- spatso

We discussed this in another thread. Look at when he deployed him. Not how much. I'd love to see some analytics of the defensive draws Zaitsev was out for. Same with Josh Brown.

From what people are saying, it sounds like the prospect that is going to Arizona (Sanderson is too large of an ask, but are the Sens willing to part of Ridly Grieg ALONG with a 1st and a young D-man, Brannstrom or Thomson)
- AlfieisKing

I would not trade Grieg I feel he’s gonna be a game changer
I would say Grieg Sanderson Pinto is untouchable
And I would keep JBD over Thomson e cause he’s more a defensive defence then Thomson which we will need down the road 🤙

This is exceptionally good.

Most hockey fans are highly transactional when it come to trades. They want to evaluate each trade and declare a winner and a loser.

I agree this is a time where Dorion makes the right move, even if he allows himself to overpay for the right guy. The only thing that matters is if it is the right move in making the Sens a contender.
- spatso

In this case "overpaying" is just a euphemism for getting robbed because Dorion has a giant target on his back. No GM worth their salt will offer him a reasonable deal so he should steer well clear of it.

As I said there will still be hockey after this season and they will need their Pintos and Greigs and, believe it or not, they are not Tampa or Colorado going for the Cup so they are still going to need their first round draft picks. So don't get robbed!!!!!

There are a lot of cash strapped teams out there. PD may be able to find one that will part with a RD as the start of the season draws near. If not, he can look at a PTO or simply roll with the D he has.

Setting Sanderson up for success and giving him the opportunity to get his feet wet before slotting him in as a Top 4 D should be a priority. If he looks good and he can handle the load / assignments, give him some rope and see how he handles more minutes / tougher assignments. If he excels, let him run with it. If he falters, go back to some sheltered minutes and/or more development time depending on how he looks. There is no need to rush the kid. The team is not winning the Cup this year and his development should not be sacrificed to try and make the playoffs. The kid could be a stud - he doesn't need to be put into a sink or swim situation - set him up to succeed and develop him into a Top D.

While they are still young and very early in their careers, it is time for JBD and Thompson to have more responsibility and to show what they can do in the NHL. If they can take a step, the Sens will have some success and they will not have to part with any assets. Not only that, it will allow Zaitsev to play less minutes / be traded / whatever.

This is how I feel as well. Smith needs his toys taken away to play the right guys. Seems like the real problem is Smith, but that won't change unless they lose. Zaitsev works as 3rd pair, or even second pair if there was a stabalizing force on the other side; but DJ sees him as the stabalizing force, that's the problem.
- CooCooKaChoo

Of course... Zaitsev is an "elite" defender.
https://twitter.com/tsn12...72248387462475778?lang=en

Unfortunately, de Haan just signed a PTO with Carolina.
https://www.tsn.ca/caroli...vin-de-haan-nhl-1.1846652

So we're basically down to Stralman in terms of viable PTO options. Unless by any stretch of the imagination they could be thinking of another reunion...
https://www.capfriendly.com/players/zdeno-chara

That could add a lot of positive fan energy just to have him in a Senators uniform... and it's tough to argue that he wouldn't add a lot of character and veteran mentorship to a very young blueline. He's a 3rd pairing guy at most, but they were never going to to find a legitimate top-4 D-man by way of a PTO. Plus he's just 20GP away from 1,700GP, 20Pts away from 700Pts, and 118PIM away from being top-10 in all-time PIM by a D-man. That works nicely with Giroux being 6G away from 300G, and 77Pts away from 1,000Pts in terms of potential veteran milestones during the season.

I saw a thread on twitter where a few wags were talking about the Sens making a pitch for Erik Karlsson (50% salary retained) for Zaitsev plus a mix of picks and prospects.

NO! No! no!

it's funny you mention Big Z.
I looked objectively at his numbers too.

If used correctly......maybe?

Spatso.
I can't see even SanJose's "new management" being able to sell that one to the fans with a straight face.

While I cannot see him eating big minutes nor being very effective, Big Z on a league minimum would just be fun and another good news story for the fan base. Add in the potential for him to mentor some of the kids and I think it becomes viable on that front. It would certainly add to the positive and growing buzz for the season.

I saw a thread on twitter where a few wags were talking about the Sens making a pitch for Erik Karlsson (50% salary retained) for Zaitsev plus a mix of picks and prospects.

NO! No! no!
- spatso

In fairness to the idea, it would effectively be a 5-year contract at $5.75M AAV, while only costing them $4.1M/yr in actual $$$... thanks in large part to it being the tail-end of a front-loaded max-term deal, which includes San Jose having already paid out a $10M signing bonus for the 2022/23 season. Factor in the Zaitsev contract, and you effectively have Karlsson as an upgrade for the next 2 years for $1.25M AAV, and an actual savings of $250K. There's also no question that it would directly impact the PP as well, which could give them among the best #1-2 unit combinations in the NHL. Not to mention that Karlsson has played just 50GP-56GP in each of the past 4 seasons, which in theory would only further reduce his actual AAV.

Not saying I agree with it, but it's a more interesting idea that it might appear on the surface.

In fairness to the idea, it would effectively be a 5-year contract at $5.75M AAV, while only costing them $4.1M/yr in actual $$$... thanks in large part to it being the tail-end of a front-loaded max-term deal, which includes San Jose having already paid out a $10M signing bonus for the 2022/23 season. Factor in the Zaitsev contract, and you effectively have Karlsson as an upgrade for the next 2 years for $1.25M AAV, and an actual savings of $250K. There's also no question that it would directly impact the PP as well, which could give them among the best #1-2 unit combinations in the NHL. Not to mention that Karlsson has played just 50GP-56GP in each of the past 4 seasons, which in theory would only further reduce his actual AAV.

Not saying I agree with it, but it's a more interesting idea that it might appear on the surface.
- khawk

My concern is less about making the money work or even the on ice talent. I would be more worried about it upsetting the youthful leadership of the team.

My concern is less about making the money work or even the on ice talent. I would be more worried about it upsetting the youthful leadership of the team.
- spatso

Well, and you also have to be concerned with whatever picks/prospects that deal might implicate, given the magnitude of the $$$/AAV. In addition to the $10M they just paid out this summer, San Jose would be paying over $25M in real $$$, and still carry an AAV of between $5.75M-$10.25M for each of the next 5 years (when you factor in Zaitsev for the next 2yrs). Given that they already removed Brent Burns from the equation and don't have another D-man who put up even 15pts last season, I really don't understand why San Jose would ever make this trade... unless it was a Chychrun-sized pick/prospect haul going the other way.

And if that's the case, they'd be better off with just getting Chychrun.

Some nice early comments from Tkachuk re: the players' optimism heading into training camp, and how Giroux and DeBrincat are already having a positive impact.
https://www.tsn.ca/ottawa...-alex-debrincat-1.1846639