Did you see the Tort video when he was talking to Laszcynski? I think Laszcynski is the odd man out. Torts doesn't know if Laszcynski is a hitter or a scorer.
- WhiskeyMan

I tend to agree and the ice team kind of indicates it as well.

They don't ask how, they ask how many
- corduroy

That's true, and you have to give credit to Frost for being in that position in the first place. In the end if Frost scores 25 goals or 60 points this year that trade will have to be considered a success because for Schenn you got Farabee and Frost, 2 good contributing forwards. Until this happens, they both are what they are.

So you offer a stat in one post and then when stats don't fit your narrative. You dismiss them.
- MJL

And ... :-)

Funny, I read all the Zac hate. I see a player that works his nuts off. He has been a decent point producer at all other levels. I see a coach that’s throwing him a bone and saying let’s see if there’s more then a 4th line tough guy in there? I’m obviously sceptical as well but you can’t fault the effort. With his increased ice time last night that might say more about the guys he took ice time away from.
- landros 2

He does work his butt off .. but honestly when the Flyers are tied or down in the 3rd period, I want the bench shortened and I don't want to see ND or Mac out there all that much. I felt last night Mac was out their way too much in the 3rd period, in fact it almost felt like they were double shifting him.

My successful year….Flyers have 4-5 young guys establish them selves as legit NHL players, they begin to integrate some of the young d into the lineup in the new year. The goaltending becomes the backbone of the team with all 3 of Hart, Sandstrom and Errson playing well.
Guys like Farabee and Konecny become the teams top scoring threats. Coots gets his back figured out and returns to health. But alas they miss out on the playoffs despite’s being a somewhat entertaining team to watch have at least not made me sit through another ridiculous year. We are then awarded the top puck in the draft as the ping pong balls fall our way disappointing the Coyotes and Kraken, but giving the Flyers the best young guy to come along since McDavid. That to me would be a successful year.
- landros 2

Yes .. that would be an amazing year for sure. Of course this means the Flyers have to avoid the "annual porking" of the ping-pong balls, a very tough feat in itself :-)

It’s not just a “born to be a Flyer” thing. Effort is rewarded in Tort’s coaching philosophy. Again I’m not going to fault the coach after watching so many more deserving players, talent wise, mail in games like they did the last couple of years.
As far as the 48 year drought we could go back and analyze all the different years where the talent and opportunity was there, but they still fell short.
I’m FULLY agreeing that a team playing Zac that much has little chance of winning. But a team where by its best players have THAT effort every night will win a hell of lot more games then they lose. That’s what the new coaching staff is trying to institute.
- landros 2

skating around looking busy isn't effort. It is wasted energy. Look at him "hustling" while he accomplishes what exactly? All this does is reinforce a head coach who is set in his ways that this "hustle" will lead to wins. IMO people get confused when it comes to effort.

personally I think the skill players in a way laugh their asses off when they see him playing more. I do not think it "lights" a fire under them at all. It leaves them shaking their head in laughter.

Were was it said he was brought in to boost the offense scoring? He is fourth line player plying his role. The hustle that you dismiss is what Torts want out of his players.
- WhiskeyMan

The coach flat out said he needs to score.

skating around looking busy isn't effort. It is wasted energy. Look at him "hustling" while he accomplishes what exactly? All this does is reinforce a head coach who is set in his ways that this "hustle" will lead to wins. IMO people get confused when it comes to effort.

personally I think the skill players in a way laugh their asses off when they see him playing more. I do not think it "lights" a fire under them at all. It leaves them shaking their head in laughter.
- hello it's me 2050

I guarantee they don't laugh, what kind of teammate laughs at another, only aholes ones do. The dumb payers would get pissed off at him and the smart players would see him getting more ice time and start hustling more.

Did Zac hurt you in some way? I can't think another reason for you to make such jackass comments.

skating around looking busy isn't effort. It is wasted energy. Look at him "hustling" while he accomplishes what exactly? All this does is reinforce a head coach who is set in his ways that this "hustle" will lead to wins. IMO people get confused when it comes to effort.

personally I think the skill players in a way laugh their asses off when they see him playing more. I do not think it "lights" a fire under them at all. It leaves them shaking their head in laughter.
- hello it's me 2050

Were you confused on the Flyers 1rst goal last night? Was that not a direct result of hustling? Did that forecheck not accomplish something? One thing that will never happen….I won’t be confused by something I see on the ice. I agree that Zac has not been able to bring his offensive game to the NHL, obviously, because his stats speak for themselves, but as was suggested earlier if his effort leads to others following along as they see this as a path to more ice time, then I think it’s a good thing….that is the entirety of my point. I’m not sure a skilled guy, with his a$$ stapled to the bench watching a guy like Zac get his minutes is laughing about anything….and if he is he should probably worry more about his own game.

It's obvious Zac hustles out there. I see it as the coach saying, this is how you get ice time to the Alisons, Laszcynski's and Frosts on the team.
- rayc16

100%

Were was it said he was brought in to boost the offense scoring? He is fourth line player plying his role. The hustle that you dismiss is what Torts want out of his players.
- WhiskeyMan

I am not a Zac "hater". In fact I love the effort he puts forth and wish some of the skilled players would play as hard as he does.

I know this is Torts philosophy of having players be rewarded who work.

My issue and previous comments had to do with playing him simply because he puts forth 100% effort regardless of his skill level or whether or not it actually helps the team on the ice.

Last night it seemed like he was on the ice every other shift. Though looking at the ice time that wasn't the case, the perception was still there. My eyes were drawn to him constantly because he always looks like he is busting his ass.

As for total ice time among forwards, he (13:18) was 5th lowest in the game ahead of only Allison (12:12), Deslauriers (10:24), J Cates (8:06) and Laczynski (7:26). It just seemed like he was out there more, and I guess that impression is what Torts likes.

At even strength he was 3rd highest at (12:50) behind only JVR (12:53) and Hayes (13:45).

A weird discrepancy for sure. But he doesn't kill penalties (:28) and gets no PP time.

I guarantee they don't laugh, what kind of teammate laughs at another, only aholes ones do. The dumb payers would get pissed off at him and the smart players would see him getting more ice time and start hustling more.

Did Zac hurt you in some way? I can't think another reason for you to make such jackass comments.
- WhiskeyMan

I guarantee they do laugh to themselves. Again with the hustling nonsense. He skates around doing nothing.

Zac is not an NHL caliber player. There are numerous stats available that back it up along with the eye test.

Were you confused on the Flyers 1rst goal last night? Was that not a direct result of hustling? Did that forecheck not accomplish something? One thing that will never happen….I won’t be confused by something I see on the ice. I agree that Zac has not been able to bring his offensive game to the NHL, obviously, because his stats speak for themselves, but as was suggested earlier if his effort leads to others following along as they see this as a path to more ice time, then I think it’s a good thing….that is the entirety of my point. I’m not sure a skilled guy, with his a$$ stapled to the bench watching a guy like Zac get his minutes is laughing about anything….and if he is he should probably worry more about his own game.
- landros 2

as I said previously I only saw the 1st period.

Well I do not think his effort rubs of on players. Smart players anyway. They see he really doesn't accomplish much with his "effort".

Funny how Frost gets singled out despite him actually producing but Farabee has absolutely nada despite a ton more ice time and nobody here seems to have noticed.
- Tomahawk

Frost Derangement Syndrome.

Frost has 3 ESP in 47:39

Cates has 1 in 54:13

Farabee has zero in 55:19 while playing with better linemates

I am not a Zac "hater". In fact I love the effort he puts forth and wish some of the skilled players would play as hard as he does.

I know this is Torts philosophy of having players be rewarded who work.

My issue and previous comments had to do with playing him simply because he puts forth 100% effort regardless of his skill level or whether or not it actually helps the team on the ice.

Last night it seemed like he was on the ice every other shift. Though looking at the ice time that wasn't the case, the perception was still there. My eyes were drawn to him constantly because he always looks like he is busting his ass.

As for total ice time among forwards, he (13:18) was 5th lowest in the game ahead of only Allison (12:12), Deslauriers (10:24), J Cates (8:06) and Laczynski (7:26). It just seemed like he was out there more, and I guess that impression is what Torts likes.

At even strength he was 3rd highest at (12:50) behind only JVR (12:53) and Hayes (13:45).

A weird discrepancy for sure. But he doesn't kill penalties (:28) and gets no PP time.
- MBFlyerfan

In the case of minutes played it probably says more about the guys not getting the minutes then it does about Mac getting them. If you can’t out preform a guy like that, if your losing minutes to a guy like that then what does that say about your own play?

Frost Derangement Syndrome.

Frost has 3 ESP in 47:39

Cates has 1 in 54:13

Farabee has zero in 55:19 while playing with better linemates
- Feanor

Frosty rules. Wait until he is traded then goes on to a Patrick Sharpe type career.

Bundy on NHL radio right now.

as I said previously I only saw the 1st period.

Well I do not think his effort rubs of on players. Smart players anyway. They see he really doesn't accomplish much with his "effort".
- hello it's me 2050

And yet he’s getting their ice time? Odd.

In the case of minutes played it probably says more about the guys not getting the minutes then it does about Mac getting them. If you can’t out preform a guy like that, if your losing minutes to a guy like that then what does that say about your own play?
- landros 2

Is it also possible the coach doesn't value skill as much as zac mac "hustle?

Frost Derangement Syndrome.

Frost has 3 ESP in 47:39

Cates has 1 in 54:13

Farabee has zero in 55:19 while playing with better linemates
- Feanor

Farabee has struggled so far….seems to be fighting the puck…needs a goal or two to get him going. Hopefully it’s just that and not the injury.

And yet he’s getting their ice time? Odd.
- landros 2

Not odd if you have a coach set in his ways and places more value over alleged hustle over skill.

What was it Torts said about Zegras on that 1 goal? Think it was Zegras.

Anyway this topic has been beaten to death. Zac is a prototypical flyer. A fan favorite.

I am not a Zac "hater". In fact I love the effort he puts forth and wish some of the skilled players would play as hard as he does.

I know this is Torts philosophy of having players be rewarded who work.

My issue and previous comments had to do with playing him simply because he puts forth 100% effort regardless of his skill level or whether or not it actually helps the team on the ice.

Last night it seemed like he was on the ice every other shift. Though looking at the ice time that wasn't the case, the perception was still there. My eyes were drawn to him constantly because he always looks like he is busting his ass.

As for total ice time among forwards, he (13:18) was 5th lowest in the game ahead of only Allison (12:12), Deslauriers (10:24), J Cates (8:06) and Laczynski (7:26). It just seemed like he was out there more, and I guess that impression is what Torts likes.

At even strength he was 3rd highest at (12:50) behind only JVR (12:53) and Hayes (13:45).

A weird discrepancy for sure. But he doesn't kill penalties (:28) and gets no PP time.
- MBFlyerfan

Torts also said he needs to score more. So I am sure if he does not produce more with the extra time he will see less time.

Bundy on NHL radio right now.
- MBFlyerfan

expect a summary....

Frosty rules. Wait until he is traded then goes on to a Patrick Sharpe type career.
- hello it's me 2050

He's scoring better than any other Flyer at ES. A normal person would think that's pretty good for a 3rd line center.

Funny how Frost gets singled out despite him actually producing but Farabee has absolutely nada despite a ton more ice time and nobody here seems to have noticed.
- Tomahawk

Farabee is coming off major neck surgery and it was not expected he would even start the season with the Flyers. Thus I think expectations are low for him at least early on in the season, as he tries to regain his health and timing. Frost has produced very little so far. Take away game 1 and what has he done since, despite have some very good looks to score some goals? He has some nifty skill no doubt, but what does it matter if for most of the game he is not driving offense. You also mentioned Frost is not playing with top players, but how long are we going to use this as an excuse? This is his 3rd coach in 3 years and he always seems to be in the same spot, why is that? If Frost was truly that good, why, especially with Couts out, is he playing less minutes lower in the lineup? Does Torts have it out for him also?