To my knowledge, all SPC's have some kind of moral clause in it. Which is why it's called a Standard player contract. Other than negotiated bonuses and salary, they're all the same.
- MJL

Yes. I was saying that the agent was responding to the interviewer’s question that outside of the customary moral clause there was no added language or burden on Miller to have something in there outside of what everyone else has.

So you think a goalie outside of 8 games this season, with a GAA above 3 and about a .905 sv percentage is worth a first and Nylander? Come on now.

If you value his start then in the same case Samsonov has to be valued with his start. Everyone was shocked he was let go by Washington, he was sought after.
- Aaron_85

Who was shocked he was let go ? He simply failed despite having every opportunity. The point is TOR has some serious talent up front and a couple of nice pieces on d, but have too many holes. Very shaky goaltending…to improve by any measurable amount to fill holes it’s going to take a Nylander or Marner. Keep dreaming that a second rnd pick and cast off is going to solve one of their biggest needs.

The other issue is Tor’s lack of cap space and a lack of assets to make any deal beyond something that might actually help them.

Here are the very simple facts. In Isaiah's letter, he talks about what was done to him. We already have that information. Secondly, Isaiah says he is not Miller's friend. I wouldn't expect him to be. The question there is if you think Miller's ability to sign an ELC or play in the NHL should be contingent upon Isaiah accepting or considering Miller as a friend. Any reasonable person would say no. So, his letter doesn't matter.


For one, the agent said that in clear language that Miller has committed to working with the Carnegie institute. Not that he has worked with them. So, the Carnegie institute statement is not contradictory.

The agent said that he has worked with Adaptive Sports Ohio. The statement was made in regard to Special Hockey in AZ or OH. Sounds like two different organizations to me but I could be wrong.
- MJL

Bold—I didn’t post Isaiah’s statement just for you. Others, like me, may want to know about it. Miller’s agent calls them friends and portrays the relationship very differently. Just pointing out another side.

I don’t know the relationship of Special Hockey with any of the other organizations listed. Miller didn’t work with them apparently even though he was invited. At least one of the listed groups was court ordered so not volunteer. Just opinion but, listing all this, most of which has not taken place yet, is hollow until he actually does it. Months have passed since this summer, is he starting on any of it?

It seems Miller is still on the payroll for the Bruins right now. Did he lose his AHL eligibility? Are the Bruins going to get him therapy and work to see where his character is right now? Not sure on what the situation is.
- NC Flyers Fan

I had read he is currently assigned to the AHL. What that means for on ice stuff I have no clue. Just what I read about his contract.

Who was shocked he was let go ? He simply failed despite having every opportunity. The point is TOR has some serious talent up front and a couple of nice pieces on d, but have too many holes. Very shaky goaltending…to improve by any measurable amount to fill holes it’s going to take a Nylander or Marner. Keep dreaming that a second rnd pick and cast off is going to solve one of their biggest needs.

The other issue is Tor’s lack of cap space and a lack of assets to make any deal beyond something that might actually help them.
- landros 2

We can agree to disagree. If Hart gets traded for anything less than a 1st + high end player you owe NC Flyers Fan (first poster I saw) a season ticket on the site. Deal? If he does get traded for that I'll buy you one.

Bold—I didn’t post Isaiah’s statement just for you. Others, like me, may want to know about it. Miller’s agent calls them friends and portrays the relationship very differently. Just pointing out another side.

I don’t know the relationship of Special Hockey with any of the other organizations listed. Miller didn’t work with them apparently even though he was invited. At least one of the listed groups was court ordered so not volunteer. Just opinion but, listing all this, most of which has not taken place yet, is hollow until he actually does it. Months have passed since this summer, is he starting on any of it?
- NC Flyers Fan

Knowing about it doesn't change anything. Miller's agent is not some basement hack. He is a legit top agent. He isn't making those statements publicly if not true. The article you posted labeling his agent a liar does not seem credible to me. For the mistakes I pointed out previously. I don't think that you're considering that this is a process. It can't all be done at once or overnight. His agent listed what he has done and what he has committed to do. Calling it hollow because it hasn't all been completed yet is illogical.

Knowing about it doesn't change anything. Miller's agent is not some basement hack. He is a legit top agent. He isn't making those statements publicly if not true. The article you posted labeling his agent a liar does not seem credible to me. For the mistakes I pointed out previously. I don't think that you're considering that this is a process. It can't all be done at once or overnight. His agent listed what he has done and what he has committed to do. Calling it hollow because it hasn't all been completed yet is illogical.
- MJL

You are free to believe one side. I am well aware that it is a process. A process that hasn’t even started as far as it appears. Planning doesn’t mean a thing if it never takes off.

We can agree to disagree. If Hart gets traded for anything less than a 1st + high end player you owe NC Flyers Fan (first poster I saw) a season ticket on the site. Deal? If he does get traded for that I'll buy you one.
- Aaron_85

Is this because I might implode on the thread if that were to happen? I can’t be bought off.

You are free to believe one side. I am well aware that it is a process. A process that hasn’t even started as far as it appears. Planning doesn’t mean a thing if it never takes off.
- NC Flyers Fan

This is factually incorrect. His agent listed steps he has already taken. Your comment that planning doesn't mean a thing if it never takes off is not applicable here.

Actually, I have looked at both sides and used info from both sides in forming my opinion.

Haven’t been on here in a while. I was fully immersed in the Phillies run, which was a fun one (even though it ended in a WS loss). Anyway…how are the Flyers looking? Is Hart’s great play or luck keeping the team with the pack thus far? Any positives and/or surprises?

This is factually incorrect. His agent listed steps he has already taken. Your comment that planning doesn't mean a thing if it never takes off is not applicable here.

Actually, I have looked at both sides and used info from both sides in forming my opinion.
- MJL

I will agree to disagree. Here are some questions I have about Miller’s agent and message. Please let me know if you have any answers.

1) Was any of the volunteer work done in the last two years? Since he was 18, an adult, especially since the Arizona draft pick fiasco?

2) Is so, which organization, what did the time include and what was learned or experienced from it?

3) When did he hire his current agent? Has any of the volunteer work occurred since that date?

Cousins scored for the cats! I almost forgot he was a flyer.

I will agree to disagree. Here are some questions I have about Miller’s agent and message. Please let me know if you have any answers.

1) Was any of the volunteer work done in the last two years? Since he was 18, an adult, especially since the Arizona draft pick fiasco?

2) Is so, which organization, what did the time include and what was learned or experienced from it?

3) When did he hire his current agent? Has any of the volunteer work occurred since that date?
- NC Flyers Fan

You're being disingenuous here. Asking questions that you know nobody other than those directly involved can answer. That shows the weakness of your position.

However here is some information that has been released by his agent in the podcast. Letterkenney was kind enough to post information from that. I have not listened to it personally. This was posted on the other thread.

Since that case was adjudicated, Miller has actually been involved with diversity efforts and programs where ever he has lived and played hockey since.

There is information in the agents statement that also answers some of your questions. You posted a link with the same statement. Did you actually read it? Your own posted info?


https://twitter.com/Eusta...-issuing-statement-173295

Haven’t been on here in a while. I was fully immersed in the Phillies run, which was a fun one (even though it ended in a WS loss). Anyway…how are the Flyers looking? Is Hart’s great play or luck keeping the team with the pack thus far? Any positives and/or surprises?
- Oberyn23

Yes, for the most part it’s been Hart’s great play. The last two games have been somewhat better from the team work scale. Long way to go still, as Torts puts it.

Positives: I think the main ones are TK looking like legit top line scoring winger, Provy being so much closer to the best version of himself and Hart of course.

Surprises: Maybe not a surprise but Tippett is improving and playing on the top line right now. Allison has played every game so far and is improving and contributing. Zamula stayed with the team. Nice opportunity for him to get stronger and develop with the NHL coaching and video. York was sent to the Phantoms.

You're being disingenuous here. Asking questions that you know nobody other than those directly involved can answer. That shows the weakness of your position.

However here is some information that has been released by his agent in the podcast. Letterkenney was kind enough to post information from that. I have not listened to it personally. This was posted on the other thread.

Since that case was adjudicated, Miller has actually been involved with diversity efforts and programs where ever he has lived and played hockey since.

There is information in the agents statement that also answers some of your questions. You posted a link with the same statement. Did you actually read it? Your own posted info?


https://twitter.com/Eusta...-issuing-statement-173295
- MJL

This sounds contradictory. Which questions are answered? Specifically.

This is factually incorrect. His agent listed steps he has already taken. Your comment that planning doesn't mean a thing if it never takes off is not applicable here.

Actually, I have looked at both sides and used info from both sides in forming my opinion.
- MJL

This is clearly all about optics, for the NHL, and not about what’s right and wrong. Miller did some truly ugly things, but he was tried, found guilty and punished. He fulfilled his legal obligation. Why shouldn’t he be allowed to play in the NHL? If he has any issues going forward then it’s reasonable to take action. If he’s a Richard people will figure it out real quick and the problem will take care of it’s self. No one will want him and he’ll go away. It’s reasonable to argue that the punishment didn’t fit the crime. Maybe all this outrage should be focused on the judge who decided his punishment or the school system and parents that let it go on for so long.

This sounds contradictory. Which questions are answered? Specifically.
- NC Flyers Fan

How is it contradictory. The agent is involved and stated that he investigated the situation for two months before taking on Miller as a client.

Now you're deflecting and revealing more of your weak position. I respect and acknowledge your opinion. If you allow me, you're outraged at what happened to this kid. As am I. You've repeatedly posted that other posters are posting inaccurate information and half-truths. You've been wrong about that multiple times and actually have been guilty of that yourself. Jumping to conclusions with incomplete information. That's why I keep coming back at you. Now you're asking questions that are answered in the information that you yourself posted. Which tells me you don't have a good grasp on the information that is available and are closed minded.

This is clearly all about optics, for the NHL, and not about what’s right and wrong. Miller did some truly ugly things, but he was tried, found guilty and punished. He fulfilled his legal obligation. Why shouldn’t he be allowed to play in the NHL? If he has any issues going forward then it’s reasonable to take action. If he’s a Richard people will figure it out real quick and the problem will take care of it’s self. No one will want him and he’ll go away. It’s reasonable to argue that the punishment didn’t fit the crime. Maybe all this outrage should be focused on the judge who decided his punishment or the school system and parents that let it go on for so long.
- Dkos

Agreed.

How is it contradictory. The agent is involved and stated that he investigated the situation for two months before taking on Miller as a client.

Now you're deflecting and revealing more of your weak position. I respect and acknowledge your opinion. If you allow me, you're outraged at what happened to this kid. As am I. You've repeatedly posted that other posters are posting inaccurate information and half-truths. You've been wrong about that multiple times and actually have been guilty of that yourself. Jumping to conclusions with incomplete information. That's why I keep coming back at you. Now you're asking questions that are answered in the information that you yourself posted. Which tells me you don't have a good grasp on the information that is available and are closed minded.
- MJL

You didn’t answer any of the questions I ask.

Do you know what my position is? Or why?

Here it is: I am not able to discern with any certainty that Mitchell Miller is a changed person who does not use racist or demeaning language, not a manipulator who craves power to control and hurt others, and not the monster he was from approximately age 8 to 17 who spent years repeatedly tormenting and abusing another human. IMO, no one has presented any proof of a changed person, only words and promises. IMO, there is an undercurrent of behavior that suggests little to no change, but his parents are still running the show so The Who in that is not definitive. I am for definitively answering that question BEFORE he is given privilege, wealth, placed in the public eye as a role model for children and any further embarrassment to the league can be avoided if he is still the monster. Finding that out is important to me, either way. Hockey or no hockey so that he gets help if needed, so no one else becomes his victim.

I really don’t think it is too much to ask. This is due diligence for someone with a damaged past. However, it is not my decision or your decision that determines what his current character holds—who he is today—and whether he can be/remain actively employed. I hope that whoever has that task, has real tangible evidence and deep conversation with him, not his mother or his agent to determine that.

A lot of damage can come from being wrong about him. I am saying “Be certain BEFORE they bring him in.” It’s been two years since the Arizona drafting backlash. Surely there is something to examine in that recent time as an adult.

And you’d get laughed at. Goalies also are hard to find …as is the case in Toronto…obviously.
- landros 2

Banned

You didn’t answer any of the questions I ask.

Do you know what my position is? Or why?

Here it is: I am not able to discern with any certainty that Mitchell Miller is a changed person who does not use racist or demeaning language, not a manipulator who craves power to control and hurt others, and not the monster he was from approximately age 8 to 17 who spent years repeatedly tormenting and abusing another human. IMO, no one has presented any proof of a changed person, only words and promises. IMO, there is an undercurrent of behavior that suggests little to no change, but his parents are still running the show so The Who in that is not definitive. I am for definitively answering that question BEFORE he is given privilege, wealth, placed in the public eye as a role model for children and any further embarrassment to the league can be avoided if he is still the monster. Finding that out is important to me, either way. Hockey or no hockey so that he gets help if needed, so no one else becomes his victim.

I really don’t think it is too much to ask. This is due diligence for someone with a damaged past. However, it is not my decision or your decision that determines what his current character holds—who he is today—and whether he can be/remain actively employed. I hope that whoever has that task, has real tangible evidence and deep conversation with him, not his mother or his agent to determine that.

A lot of damage can come from being wrong about him. I am saying “Be certain BEFORE they bring him in.” It’s been two years since the Arizona drafting backlash. Surely there is something to examine in that recent time as an adult.
- NC Flyers Fan

My issue is that you and others are defaulting to he is not a good person until he proves he is a good person. My position is that he does not have to prove that to have an opportunity to play in the NHL. Due to the fact that he was a kid when he made these errors and was punished and completed his punishment and the legal process in this case. Secondly, as I alluded to when you were adamant that he apologizes directly to the victim. People will not be acceptable to that being genuine. You've been proving my point on that as you have been completely dismissive of any information given that shows that he has taken steps to improve himself. You also fail to realize that you have no knowledge of how he has acted as an adult. You don't think any transgressions or further poor, or racist behavior would've come out by now from his time in the USHL? That his teammates gave positive comments about him? Yet you claim there is an undercurrent of behavior that suggests little or no change. That is a baseless claim on your part.
Your comment that none of the questions you asked were answered, proves that further. As information given does answer it. Including information that you yourself linked to previously.

You're right, a lot of damage can come from being wrong about him. What you fail to realize is that there are two sides to that. Including damage done to Miller. Unless you feel that he should pay for the rest of his life for what he did as a kid.

Hello friends,

I will be in Miami for a day and night tomorrow (looks like I’m just dodging the hurricane). Any recommendations? It’s a stop through so only have the day and night but looking for some things to do while there.

Any recommendations what to do (or not do) are welcome. Also, I am not looking for anything club/fist-pumping related.

Thank you,
Funmaster

Hello friends,

I will be in Miami for a day and night tomorrow (looks like I’m just dodging the hurricane). Any recommendations? It’s a stop through so only have the day and night but looking for some things to do while there.

Any recommendations what to do (or not do) are welcome. Also, I am not looking for anything club/fist-pumping related.

Thank you,
Funmaster
- funmaster18

Just chill on the beach and enjoy the scenery (assuming you have a place to shower). Find a nice place to go eat dinner.

Hello friends,

I will be in Miami for a day and night tomorrow (looks like I’m just dodging the hurricane). Any recommendations? It’s a stop through so only have the day and night but looking for some things to do while there.

Any recommendations what to do (or not do) are welcome. Also, I am not looking for anything club/fist-pumping related.

Thank you,
Funmaster
- funmaster18

If the weather is right a trip to Haulover beach is truly an eye opener. Otherwise Gulfstream park is a real nice place to spend a few hours. A look back at how great racing used to be. Whatever you’re into you can find it in Miami.

Taken from another site:

Charlie said on the BSH that he heard Atkinson’s injury is neck related. He said the organization is being very mum on Atkinson’s situation so it’s not something he feels is 100% fact. He’s not skating & there isn’t an estimated time frame right now as to when that will happen. The Flyers have publicly said Atkinson is out with a UBI.