So talking about other NHL teams/ NHL stuff in a Flyers blog is now frowned upon?
- furio16

No, I just don't want to derail it too much and give respect to the preferred team here. I don't see how that's a negative?

Most non playoff teams to try to move their UFA. So you would consider Atkinson? What market do you think there is for a guy who is hurt and has 2 years left at over 5 million.

So in other words they will move the 2 that they are expected to move.
- furio16

You asked which players. I gave a list. I just want trades I originally said. I don't get why you're so confrontational about it.


It doesn't matter his market. It's removing the cap hit without costing too much IF they are looking to re-tool. If he can be healthy it's likely a mid pick and maybe a B prospect. Without salary retention maybe it's just one of those for removing the cap entirely. We have seen time and time again terrible contracts moved so I wouldn't be surprised if it happens.

No, I just don't want to derail it too much and give respect to the preferred team here. I don't see how that's a negative?
- Aaron_85

Not sure how it was being derailed at all.

Few post back you follow it up talking about other teams, trades, fantasy hockey, and the leafs/Muzzin. Just want to make sure we are all on the same page.

Not sure how it was being derailed at all.

Few post back you follow it up talking about other teams, trades, fantasy hockey, and the leafs/Muzzin. Just want to make sure we are all on the same page.
- furio16

I was being polite and respectful not to overtake the blog with my preferred team. I hope that clarifies things for you.

I responded directly to someone discussing the leafs with me.

Probably a good thing….guy wasn’t playing a whole lot.
- landros 2

Not a good thing for the new dad's bank balance.

What players do you think the Flyers should sell?
- furio16

No moves should be made until Dave Scott, Chuck Fletcher, Bobby Clarke, Paul Holmgren, Dave Lombardi and Bill Barber are completely removed from their positions within the Flyers organization and bar them from any contact with Flyers personnel.

You asked which players. I gave a list. I just want trades I originally said. I don't get why you're so confrontational about it.


It doesn't matter his market. It's removing the cap hit without costing too much IF they are looking to re-tool. If he can be healthy it's likely a mid pick and maybe a B prospect. Without salary retention maybe it's just one of those for removing the cap entirely. We have seen time and time again terrible contracts moved so I wouldn't be surprised if it happens.
- Aaron_85

Well I do not think Cam has any trade value. Healthy or not you will not move him unless taking back an equal type contract. There is no way he is moved for a pick and prospect with the term.

How does his market not matter? If he has no market then there is no trade to be made.

Take a look at the current landscape and see what the going rate is to move players. Look what they wanted to move a productive JVR with no term after this year. What terrible contracts were moved without some sweetener/bad contract coming the other way?

They are stuck with his contract for the foreseeable future.

What players do you think the Flyers should sell?
- furio16

I think anyone on the current roster not named Hart should be available

They do appear to be more sound system wise in the last few games, but other teams are also rounding into form. I like the effort…at least they are watchable….what it is to be a current fan. Torts said basically analytics are for the most part garbage. True some are, but I don’t think he really thinks that. I mean the eye test matches a lot of the analytical numbers anyway.
- landros 2

I think the real point Torts was trying to make is you can't solely rely on analytics as some people on this forum do. You need to watch the games and rely on your gut, and then use analytics to support or challenge your conclusions.

No moves should be made until Dave Scott, Chuck Fletcher, Bobby Clarke, Paul Holmgren, Dave Lombardi and Bill Barber are completely removed from their positions within the Flyers organization and bar them from any contact with Flyers personnel.
- Shrike

Don't hold your breath.

I think anyone on the current roster not named Hart should be available
- jd250

The thing is you can’t have the current GM make these moves.

Bring in a GM with no to very very little connection to anyone in this organization. Then you rebuild your entire scouting staff. Revamp your entire developmental process.

Hart and Farabee I keep as I do not think the value is there to move either one. If it was then you reconsider. Cates, Frost, Tippet I keep again for the simple fact what value could they possibly have to make you want to move them?

All the others gone. Now some you won’t be able to move. Others you will have to retain (50% for Hayes and he is then very moveable imo). This is a losing group. That will not change. Individually you have pieces that have value to other teams. Just so foolish to extend both Risto then Sanheim. Just start from scratch. It will never happen however.

I think the real point Torts was trying to make is you can't solely rely on analytics as some people on this forum do. You need to watch the games and rely on your gut, and then use analytics to support or challenge your conclusions.
- jd250

Analytics are a tool be used like many other available data points.

I think the real point Torts was trying to make is you can't solely rely on analytics as some people on this forum do.
- jd250

You can really stop beating that dead horse.

The people who talk about stats on here ALL watch the games.

You can really stop beating that dead horse.

The people who talk about stats on here ALL watch the games.
- Tomahawk

Going by your guts and the eye test are better. That's how you come to conclusions that Ristolainen is the best defenseman on the Flyers and that Charlie McAvoy is just a good defenseman who is not worth his salary.

Torts is an archaic coach who really has no fresh answers. The hard work hustle narrative is a farce and just buzz words many eat up. What player development is Torts providing? He is not about development at all from what I can see based on his short tie with the Flyers. His roster decisions have been average at best and that is being kind. He loves the work hard limited skill type. Does not like the skill guys. Believes you will win with the Laughton's of the world leading the pack.
- furio16

Well we don't see the same thing. First, if you were Torts and had to coach this roster, which these injuries, what focus would you have? The lack of skill and foot speed on this roster really has forced Torts to focus on effort and structure to try to be competitive. Atkinson said last year was like a country club here, and that needed to change. We can already see TK is a much better player, probably the best he has ever played in a Flyers uniform. Provorov has been much better. Hart has been excellent. Hayes has been benched. Risto has been benched. Young players like Tippet and Cates are showing nice development, and Farabee in on his way back to health. I think Torts and Shaw are doing the best they can with what they have to work with. I don't know what more you think can be achieved with this roster.

You can really stop beating that dead horse.

The people who talk about stats on here ALL watch the games.
- Tomahawk

I am not beating a dead horse. I was just stating what I think Tort's was really trying to say. I don't believe he thinks most analytics are crap, though I believe he thinks some are. He clearly values some analytics, but his main point was to experience the games, review tape and then use analytics to support or challenge your feelings about what you saw.

The list of mistakes that Tortorella has made this early in the season are numerous. He has done a poor job overall with young player development. He has over relied on low talent stiffs who have no future in this league. He has the team playing far too passive in the defensive zone and the neutral zone.

Well we don't see the same thing. First, if you were Torts and had to coach this roster, which these injuries, what focus would you have? The lack of skill and foot speed on this roster really has forced Torts to focus on effort and structure to try to be competitive. Atkinson said last year was like a country club here, and that needed to change. We can already see TK is a much better player, probably the best he has ever played in a Flyers uniform. Provorov has been much better. Hart has been excellent. Hayes has been benched. Risto has been benched. Young players like Tippet and Cates are showing nice development, and Farabee in on his way back to health. I think Torts and Shaw are doing the best they can with what they have to work with. I don't know what more you think can be achieved with this roster.
- jd250

Audition every young player in to see what I have knowing I have a 4 year contract.

I do not think they are putting the young players in a positon to succeed overall.

It isn't about results or it shouldn't be. For the coach and GM it is about results. Otherwise they would have made it clear what the plan is going forward

You can really stop beating that dead horse.

The people who talk about stats on here ALL watch the games.
- Tomahawk

BTW, I was not referring to you. Instead I was pondering a very little man in a Darth Vader mask, holding a plastic light saber, and wearing a T-shirt with Fletcher's face and a line through it.

Audition every young player in to see what I have knowing I have a 4 year contract.

I do not think they are putting the young players in a positon to succeed overall.

It isn't about results or it shouldn't be. For the coach and GM it is about results. Otherwise they would have made it clear what the plan is going forward
- furio16

What players on the Phantoms should be playing with the big club right now? What young player is not getting what he needs with the Flyers right now?

I am not beating a dead horse. I was just stating what I think Tort's was really trying to say. I don't believe he thinks most analytics are crap, though I believe he thinks some are. He clearly values some analytics, but his main point was to experience the games, review tape and then use analytics to support or challenge your feelings about what you saw.
- jd250

I can guarantee you that Torts has never taken the time to actually learn what's being offered to him. Unlike Daryl Sutter who's just as old school, just as ornery, but has fully embraced the value of the data his nerds feed to him and he's a more relevant and successful coach today than Torts because of it.

And to your last point, yes. Gut instinct should be checked by data and data should checked by gut instinct. Only fools blindly follow JUST the numbers OR their eyeballs.

What players on the Phantoms should be playing with the big club right now? What young player is not getting what he needs with the Flyers right now?
- jd250

Frost Igor and Tanner have been misused. Allison was as well to an extent. Cates has been miscast. Lets starts there

BTW, I was not referring to you. Instead I was pondering a very little man in a Darth Vader mask, holding a plastic light saber, and wearing a T-shirt with Fletcher's face and a line through it.
- jd250

Strange, because MJL actually has more insight and clarity when breaking down tape than the vast majority of the "just watch the games" dudes on here.

Frost Igor and Tanner have been misused. Allison was as well to an extent. Cates has been miscast. Lets starts there
- furio16

Here we go with Frost. What has this kid showed you this year, last year, or any year? He does nothing to stand out, gets routinely bumped off the puck, does not generate offense, takes stupid penalties. He doesn't even deserve to be on the roster IMO. Lets start there.

Then with Zamula, he has shown that he can be quickly overwhelmed in the NHL, especially against good team with high skill. He still has a lot to learn and more development is needed for him to be an every day NHL player. But to Tort's credit, he is developing him with the big club, not sending him down to the Phantoms.

With Tanner L I give you the same questions as with Frost, What has Tanner shown after game 1 that justifies his minutes on the team?? He is another player that is pretty much invisible out there and probably is nothing more than a career minor leaguer.

Cates demonstrates shift after shift that he belongs in the NHL. He is smart player that always seems to be in the right position and makes smart plays. He and Tippet to me have shown the most promise on the Flyers and they are being justly rewarded with about 18 minutes of ice time per game.

Strange, because MJL actually has more insight and clarity when breaking down tape than the vast majority of the "just watch the games" dudes on here.
- Tomahawk

Now that's funny