I can guarantee you that Torts has never taken the time to actually learn what's being offered to him. Unlike Daryl Sutter who's just as old school, just as ornery, but has fully embraced the value of the data his nerds feed to him and he's a more relevant and successful coach today than Torts because of it.

And to your last point, yes. Gut instinct should be checked by data and data should checked by gut instinct. Only fools blindly follow JUST the numbers OR their eyeballs.
- Tomahawk

I don't believe that Tortorella totally dismisses analytics or in reality thinks that they suck. I think he was just protecting his team from the discussion that he knew would inevitably take place. That his team was going to have poor analytic numbers. He was just putting up one of the many barricades that he likes to put up.

Here we go with Frost. What has this kid showed you this year, last year, or any year? He does nothing to stand out, gets routinely bumped off the puck, does not generate offense, takes stupid penalties. He doesn't even deserve to be on the roster IMO. Lets start there.

Then with Zamula, he has shown that he can be quickly overwhelmed in the NHL, especially against good team with high skill. He still has a lot to learn and more development is needed for him to be an every day NHL player. But to Tort's credit, he is developing him with the big club, not sending him down to the Phantoms.

With Tanner L I give you the same questions as with Frost, What has Tanner shown after game 1 that justifies his minutes on the team?? He is another player that is pretty much invisible out there and probably is nothing more than a career minor leaguer.

Cates demonstrates shift after shift that he belongs in the NHL. He is smart player that always seems to be in the right position and makes smart plays. He and Tippet to me have shown the most promise on the Flyers and they are being justly rewarded with about 18 minutes of ice time per game.
- jd250

You have claimed numerous times this is a rebuilding year have you not?

So therefore if you believe that then you play those guys and put them in positon to succeed. If and when you do that and the results are not there then you move along. This is a very simple process that should be followed seeing where the Flyers are currently at.

Cates is not and never was a top 6 center. That is being misused. The coach has never put him and Frost together for a team starving for offense. That is being misused. Never said Cates wasn't an NHL player. Zamula should be in the lineup every game with the exception a game off now and then to take s birds eye view.

Now that's funny
- jd250

I know you two don't get along, but he actually knows quite a lot.

I know you two don't get along, but he actually knows quite a lot.
- Tomahawk

I appreciate the words. We all have our strengths and weaknesses as posters.

You and I have had our battles in the past, that's for sure. I still have a lot of the same reservations about analytics in the past and believe what we have access to is best used to show what happens on the ice when a player is out there. Whether that points to a player being good or bad, takes analysis. Which is where watching the game and the eye test comes in.

More than any single poster, you have taught me the most about analytics. One of the biggest areas of the game in player evaluation that you had a large part in teaching me about, is looking at defenseman. I used to overvalue the stay-at-home defenseman. Players who are good in defensive coverage, blocking shots, etc. That's not what makes a good defenseman. Although hat is part of being a defenseman and there is still a smaller role for that kind of player in today's game. You had a large part in teaching me that aspect of the game. What makes a good top 4 defenseman and the qualities that one should be looking for. I appreciate that.

Torts does get credit for being the first coach in RR's career to call a turd a turd.
- Tomahawk

You just wait for a competent coaches like tortsie and shawsie to bring out the best of rr

You

Just

Wait!

No moves should be made until Dave Scott, Chuck Fletcher, Bobby Clarke, Paul Holmgren, Dave Lombardi and Bill Barber are completely removed from their positions within the Flyers organization and bar them from any contact with Flyers personnel.
- Shrike

They are retired and have no influence on how the team operates

Fall in line please - we have all been told this- numerous times 🤷‍♂️

I appreciate the words. We all have our strengths and weaknesses as posters.

You and I have had our battles in the past, that's for sure. I still have a lot of the same reservations about analytics in the past and believe what we have access to is best used to show what happens on the ice when a player is out there. Whether that points to a player being good or bad, takes analysis. Which is where watching the game and the eye test comes in.

More than any single poster, you have taught me the most about analytics. One of the biggest areas of the game in player evaluation that you had a large part in teaching me about, is looking at defenseman. I used to overvalue the stay-at-home defenseman. Players who are good in defensive coverage, blocking shots, etc. That's not what makes a good defenseman. Although hat is part of being a defenseman and there is still a smaller role for that kind of player in today's game. You had a large part in teaching me that aspect of the game. What makes a good top 4 defenseman and the qualities that one should be looking for. I appreciate that.
- MJL

Awesome kumbaya moment, but I can tell you that I don’t need any analytical information to tell you that right now Hayes is a seriously overpaid 3rd line center.

I don't believe that Tortorella totally dismisses analytics or in reality thinks that they suck. I think he was just protecting his team from the discussion that he knew would inevitably take place. That his team was going to have poor analytic numbers. He was just putting up one of the many barricades that he likes to put up.
- MJL

really a large part of his MO, is being the PIA to distract from the team, only he can criticize them

Awesome kumbaya moment, but I can tell you that I don’t need any analytical information to tell you that right now Hayes is a seriously overpaid 3rd line center.
- RustyPipes

The Flyers as a whole, are not a good analytic team. Hayes play away from the puck has gone sideways and need to be better.

I appreciate the words. We all have our strengths and weaknesses as posters.

You and I have had our battles in the past, that's for sure. I still have a lot of the same reservations about analytics in the past and believe what we have access to is best used to show what happens on the ice when a player is out there. Whether that points to a player being good or bad, takes analysis. Which is where watching the game and the eye test comes in.

More than any single poster, you have taught me the most about analytics. One of the biggest areas of the game in player evaluation that you had a large part in teaching me about, is looking at defenseman. I used to overvalue the stay-at-home defenseman. Players who are good in defensive coverage, blocking shots, etc. That's not what makes a good defenseman. Although hat is part of being a defenseman and there is still a smaller role for that kind of player in today's game. You had a large part in teaching me that aspect of the game. What makes a good top 4 defenseman and the qualities that one should be looking for. I appreciate that.
- MJL

Haha thanks! Even though none of us are experts or anything, we can all still bring certain things to the table and we can all still learn cool things from each other... and that's what makes talking hockey on the internet worth the effort.

Systems, salary cap, CBA... without you here to dive into the minutiae of all that stuff, the level of discourse would be even lower than it already is, lol. We've had a lot of stat heads over the years to cover that base. We've had goalies to explain the position. We even had that one guy who was med/nursing school who would explain injuries to us, lol.

Who knew a hockey "roomer" site could be so educational?

You just wait for a competent coaches like tortsie and shawsie to bring out the best of rr

You

Just

Wait!
- corduroy

lol, all kidding aside, it's gonna be a Jack Johnson thing with him. There's no cure for dumb, but dumb players can still play important roles.

Now that the bubble has fully burst on him being a top-pair or even top-four guy, somebody can finally coach him up to be an effective depth player.

Maybe Tortellini and Hockey Don Draper will be the guys to do that.

lol, all kidding aside, it's gonna be a Jack Johnson thing with him. There's no cure for dumb, but dumb players can still play important roles.

Now that the bubble has fully burst on him being a top-pair or even top-four guy, somebody can finally coach him up to be an effective depth player.

Maybe Tortellini and Hockey Don Draper will be the guys to do that.
- Tomahawk

Even if he can become that, which I have my doubts. He's just not good in the defensive zone. He's still making too much against the cap. This team is really not set up good. I'm telling you, unless they get really fortunate with multiple picks in the draft becoming impact players. We're looking at 7-10 years before this team is relevant. For all the good that Clarke and Holmgren did in the past. They's made this into a real poop show.

Mood?

Better chance Sedlak gets traded or extended?

Mood?
- hockeylover

What is a 4 letter word?

Another point for G! Sad he does to another flawed team

Another point for G! Sad he does to another flawed team
- ClaudeFather

Metro look very tough, Isles seems to have taken steps under Lambert. BJ and Flyers looks lost in this strong division.

Metro look very tough, Isles seems to have taken steps under Lambert. BJ and Flyers looks lost in this strong division.
- THE EVIL WITHIN

Islanders also just had everything go wrong last year. Tough division for sure. G with a goal as well!

The Eagles really should not be so easy to run on.

LETS GO EAGLES

our D looks like poop

our D looks like poop
- 2Real

Be happy that you don't have Jordie Benn on your top pairing for the next week


But legit, who gets to stay on the flyers D and who should go other than Risto?

The Eagles really should not be so easy to run on.
- PT21

They are in a fight…horrible half for big play slay. Poor execution on D all night.

Be happy that you don't have Jordie Benn on your top pairing for the next week


But legit, who gets to stay on the flyers D and who should go other than Risto?
- Aaron_85

I think he meant Eagles D vs the Commandos

I think he meant Eagles D vs the Commandos
- THE EVIL WITHIN

Ohhhh my bad!