It is a first step, one of many he has had. The key is this team is very bad and I am not so sure the coach wants to admit it yet. Keep that line together and live with the growing pains. Do you see the coach doing that?
- furio16

Probably not, but that is the flyers way.....

The head coach imo does not value high end skilled players. Even if he had them do you feel confident he would play them to their strengths? The way he plays it seems he has very little idea how to use them. So lets say the GM and coach are on the same page, do you see the Flyers actually going out and trying to acquire any potential high end skilled players via trade or free agency while Torts is the coach? Or do you see more Laughton types?


I pray the coach keeps playing the players he has chosen to play on a daily basis. This is the best shot they have to bottom out. I actually do not want Zamula York Attard and whatever potential forward who could help at all.

I do not think York is a bad player, actually I think he can be very good. However, as the Flyers do with all their young, they are not given time to make mistakes and grow into their true "player selves" (exhibit A = Frost). Now, if you want to talk about Caufield vs. York, you know the Flyers were never going to take a 5' 8" player with the 14h pick of any draft. Small players can't play Flyers hockey, which by the way, has not won anything is about 5 decades.
- mr4tno

I really don’t buy the Frost nonsense. Thing is he’s been given opportunities and he’s never really ran with it. The only time he started to turn things around was end of last year but unfortunately it was with very few games left. Few years ago he’s called up and plays with G, starts hot and gets ice cold. Then the next season or season after, whichever one after injury, he didn’t play well enough to make the team. This year is a bit different with the depth of the roster and not getting opportunity until now. He’s got the chance again, he has to produce

Probably not, but that is the flyers way.....
- mr4tno

Agree. The coach will pull the plug first chance. Torts isn't playing any long game. He is all talk.

I really don’t buy the Frost nonsense. Thing is he’s been given opportunities and he’s never really ran with it. The only time he started to turn things around was end of last year but unfortunately it was with very few games left. Few years ago he’s called up and plays with G, starts hot and gets ice cold. Then the next season or season after, whichever one after injury, he didn’t play well enough to make the team. This year is a bit different with the depth of the roster and not getting opportunity until now. He’s got the chance again, he has to produce
- ClaudeFather

So, you completely discount the injury and missing the majority of a full season? It's really pretty simple to figure out. When Frost plays with good players and is given decent ice time in offensive situations. He plays well and you can see the talent. When he plays with grinders and less talented offensive players and low ice time, he is not effective. So, what should a team like the Flyers do while lacking talent and skill? Continue as Bill said the other day. Hyper focusing on a players weaknesses and keep putting him in a role that doesn't put him in the best spot to use his skills and talent? This is not difficult.

So, you completely discount the injury and missing the majority of a full season? It's really pretty simple to figure out. When Frost plays with good players and is given decent ice time in offensive situations. He plays well and you can see the talent. When he plays with grinders and less talented offensive players and low ice time, he is not effective. So, what should a team like the Flyers do while lacking talent and skill? Continue as Bill said the other day. Hyper focusing on a players weaknesses and keep putting him in a role that doesn't put him in the best spot to use his skills and talent? This is not difficult.
- MJL

Did you not read the post? After injury, he did not come back well enough to make the team, who’s fault is that? The organizations? He’s got his chance now, again.

Did you not read the post? After injury, he did not come back well enough to make the team, who’s fault is that? The organizations? He’s got his chance now, again.
- ClaudeFather

You proved my point. Missing all that time due to injury is why he didn't make the team. After making the team the season before getting injured.

It is a first step, one of many he has had. The key is this team is very bad and I am not so sure the coach wants to admit it yet. Keep that line together and live with the growing pains. Do you see the coach doing that?
- furio16

If the line keeps producing he will keep it together. He’s literally said the team sucks. He often points out that they lack talent and that this season is more about evaluating the team than winning.

Frost was a late 1st rd pick. The issue can be discussed is should the B Schenn even happened. IIRC, this organization felt Schenn could not play center. So an interesting hypothetical. Without the trade, no Farabee also. However, if Schenn stays at center, then probably no Hayes signing. My basic point is since drafting Coots, this organixation has zero depth thru the draft at center. Even if Gauthier pans out, more center depth is needed.

If the line keeps producing he will keep it together. He’s literally said the team sucks. He often points out that they lack talent and that this season is more about evaluating the team than winning.
- Dkos

He has not coached like that. He has coached more for his legacy than for the Flyers future.

You proved my point. Missing all that time due to injury is why he didn't make the team. After making the team the season before getting injured.
- MJL

I made the point in my initial post. The premise that the organization has not given him a chance is nonsense. Or put him in a decent position to do so. I questioned this year’s lineup regarding him but now he’s getting his chance, again…

If the line keeps producing he will keep it together. He’s literally said the team sucks. He often points out that they lack talent and that this season is more about evaluating the team than winning.
- Dkos

He says a lot of things. This is what he does. All lip service. More about evaluation my ass. His actions do not indicate that at all.

I made the point in my initial post. The premise that the organization has not given him a chance is nonsense. Or put him in a decent position to do so. I questioned this year’s lineup regarding him but now he’s getting his chance, again…
- ClaudeFather

It's not nonsense. I guess it depends on what your definition of a chance is. In his Flyers career, he has spent the overwhelming majority of his ice time in situations not conducive to his development.

So, you completely discount the injury and missing the majority of a full season? It's really pretty simple to figure out. When Frost plays with good players and is given decent ice time in offensive situations. He plays well and you can see the talent. When he plays with grinders and less talented offensive players and low ice time, he is not effective. So, what should a team like the Flyers do while lacking talent and skill? Continue as Bill said the other day. Hyper focusing on a players weaknesses and keep putting him in a role that doesn't put him in the best spot to use his skills and talent? This is not difficult.
- MJL

So at what point does he have to start producing real points and not the well he had few high danger are shots, he had more chances for than against and all the other stuff? Been hearing this it seems for a hile now.

He has not been used properly no doubt to me. At some point however he needs to step up and become a point producer. Otherwise move on ans trade him for another teams Frost that needs a change of scenario.

He has not coached like that. He has coached more for his legacy than for the Flyers future.
- MJL

He is what he is. This team is not going to win anything no matter what Torts does and he knows it. He’s just doing what he was hired to do. You want something else you don’t hire him. Hard for me to get upset with the coach here. Capped out team with zero talent and zero vision. It’s not on the coach. Anyway I was just refuting the comment that torts wouldn’t admit the team was bad. He knows it. He’s said it.

He says a lot of things. This is what he does. All lip service. More about evaluation my ass. His actions do not indicate that at all.
- furio16

What I’m trying to say is that he is aware that the team is bad. He said it. Saying that the year is not about winning it’s about evaluation is admitting that the team is bad.

It's not nonsense. I guess it depends on what your definition of a chance is. In his Flyers career, he has spent the overwhelming majority of his ice time in situations not conducive to his development.
- MJL

His first call up he plays with our franchise player, hot start, goes cold. Makes team, gets injured, doesn’t make team off injury. Gets put in a decent spot at year end where he seems to make progress, unfortunately it was end of season. He’s certainly been given a chance and seems to be getting another now. This notion of him being done so wrong is nonsense

He is what he is. This team is not going to win anything no matter what Torts does and he knows it. He’s just doing what he was hired to do. You want something else you don’t hire him. Hard for me to get upset with the coach here. Capped out team with zero talent and zero vision. It’s not on the coach. Anyway I was just refuting the comment that torts wouldn’t admit the team was bad. He knows it. He’s said it.
- Dkos

All lip service. So everything he says you believe?

The coach controls the lineup and ice time. So that part is 100% on him. He is not developing nor is he evaluating for next year when you look at the lineup from game to game when the season started.

What I’m trying to say is that he is aware that the team is bad. He said it. Saying that the year is not about winning it’s about evaluation is admitting that the team is bad.
- Dkos

Do you believe actions speak louder than words?

His first call up he plays with our franchise player, hot start, goes cold. Makes team, gets injured, doesn’t make team off injury. Gets put in a decent spot at year end where he seems to make progress, unfortunately it was end of season. He’s certainly been given a chance and seems to be getting another now. This notion of him being done so wrong is nonsense
- ClaudeFather

The over whelming majority of his NHL time, he has not been put in a position to succeed and best use his ability and skill. That is just a fact. You can pretend that is not the case, but it won't change it. Again, it's really quite simple. When Frost plays with better talented players and is given ice time. He plays well. When he plays with grinders and 4th line type players and is not given much ice time. He doesn't show much. Not hard to figure out. The Flyers as a whole are awful in player development and have been awful in how they have handled Frost.

What I’m trying to say is that he is aware that the team is bad. He said it. Saying that the year is not about winning it’s about evaluation is admitting that the team is bad.
- Dkos

If that was true, then he's not giving all the ice time he is to players like McEwen, Deslauriers, Sedlak, Seeler and Brown. Brown comes off IR and is immediately put into the lineup.

The over whelming majority of his NHL time, he has not been put in a position to succeed and best use his ability and skill. That is just a fact. You can pretend that is not the case, but it won't change it. Again, it's really quite simple. When Frost plays with better talented players and is given ice time. He plays well. When he plays with grinders and 4th line type players and is not given much ice time. He doesn't show much. Not hard to figure out. The Flyers as a whole are awful in player development and have been awful in how they have handled Frost.
- MJL

So is it safe to say Frost isn't good enough to elevate any of his line mates unless they have "skill"? At what point does the player become accountable for his play and the excuses stop?

If that was true, then he's not giving all the ice time he is to players like McEwen, Deslauriers, Sedlak, Seeler and Brown. Brown comes off IR and is immediately put into the lineup.
- MJL

From an age and NHL experience perspective ZM is still somewhat young no? He did produce at a decent clip in the AHL.

He is outscoring Frost almost by double (1 less game) with the same amount of ice time. Any thoughts on that?

I really don’t buy the Frost nonsense. Thing is he’s been given opportunities and he’s never really ran with it. The only time he started to turn things around was end of last year but unfortunately it was with very few games left. Few years ago he’s called up and plays with G, starts hot and gets ice cold. Then the next season or season after, whichever one after injury, he didn’t play well enough to make the team. This year is a bit different with the depth of the roster and not getting opportunity until now. He’s got the chance again, he has to produce
- ClaudeFather

When he's been given bonafide opportunities, he's shown he can produce to at least a complementary level.

Yeo said a bunch of times last season that he was focused on process -- more than points -- with Frost. The big picture goal was that the points would eventually come with it but he'd become a more well-rounded player in the process.

The month he spent with Mayhew and Willman last year was specifically about getting him to break the habit of playing at a glide/standstill.

But you are right that his current opportunity to play with more skill and speed on his line is on him if he doesn't make the most of it.

When he's been given bonafide opportunities, he's shown he can produce to at least a complementary level.

Yeo said a bunch of times last season that he was focused on process -- more than points -- with Frost. The big picture goal was that the points would eventually come with it but he'd become a more well-rounded player in the process.

The month he spent with Mayhew and Willman last year was specifically about getting him to break the habit of playing at a glide/standstill.

But you are right that his current opportunity to play with more skill and speed on his line is on him if he doesn't make the most of it.
- bmeltzer

I hope he makes the most of it. We really could use a home grown player step up down the middle