Yes and no. We’ve had young talent. We’ve had picks. Nolan Patrick, Travis Konency, Ivan Provorov, Carter Hart, Joel Farabee, Morgan Frost, Felix Sandstrom, Travis Sanheim, Jay O’Brien and Cam York have been here all along. It’s about who we pick and how we develop them.
- SuperSchennBros

Key word is had. Most of those guys are established players outside of Frost and York. They are what they are. It’s all about what happens in this previous couple drafts and forward. I think we all know Farabee has more to give but the bottom line is we have an incredibly weak roster and it needs to improve through the draft

I understand that Couts is hurt but, after nearly a decade of retooling, rebuilding, rewhatevering, and the best you can do is Noah Cates as your 1C, then your organization has failed miserably.

Can anyone at Comcast explain how Fletcher, his staff, his advisors, the scouting dept, developmental dept and medical/training staffs are still employed.

The Flyers are a laughingstock.

I understand that Couts is hurt but, after nearly a decade of retooling, rebuilding, rewhatevering, and the best you can do is Noah Cates as your 1C, then your organization has failed miserably.

Can anyone at Comcast explain how Fletcher, his staff, his advisors, the scouting dept, developmental dept and medical/training staffs are still employed.

The Flyers are a laughingstock.
- BiggE

4 years is enough time to develop a 1C? I think most would say no. Therefore the previous GM gets the blame. You can’t expect to develop a 1C in 4 years although maybe Gauthier so Chuck might have succeeded in that where the previous bum failed

I understand that Couts is hurt but, after nearly a decade of retooling, rebuilding, rewhatevering, and the best you can do is Noah Cates as your 1C, then your organization has failed miserably.

Can anyone at Comcast explain how Fletcher, his staff, his advisors, the scouting dept, developmental dept and medical/training staffs are still employed.

The Flyers are a laughingstock.
- BiggE

If in real life and not BS hockey business for Comca$$$t
Dude would have been gone a week ago Tuesday

Torts' need to assert dominance is frankly kinda sad.

He's like the dog at the park that does nothing but hump other dogs in the face, cuz he's insecure about pack order.

I don't think it's about dominance. Granted, his methods are rough, but what did we want to happen with this hire ? Anything less than this nuclear option and this team has proven over and over the last several years that they don't play hard enough, make too many mental mistakes and have lapses at key times in the game (slow starts or poor finishes). Ultimately, they've marginalized good coaches in the past.
So they haven't reached the promised land yet, but this team plays better than last year. They win more puck battles, don't implode when down a couple of goals and are doing what was needed in a year when they won't compete. They needed to find out which players to keep for the long haul. I think Torts is finding out. Did anyone think Hayes was going to be one of them ? Has he shown the tendency to be consistent or a defensive presence over his entire career ? Torts has unlocked a few players. TK has upped his game a full level, is now playing like a leader. York was sent down to be groomed in the minors and has returned to be a reliable d man. Laughton is a leader now too. His work ethic illustrates this and is getting results. Never thought I'd hear myself say it, but Frost is starting to emerge as a productive player. (He still has a ways to go) Tippet has improved his corsi & productivity. These are all positives in a lost season. I had trouble watching the games for a while, but with the above player improvements and Hart standing on his head, some of the games are watchable. That is saying something. I just hope they don't make more stupid moves in the off season to neutralize this progress.

4 years is enough time to develop a 1C? I think most would say no. Therefore the previous GM gets the blame. You can’t expect to develop a 1C in 4 years although maybe Gauthier so Chuck might have succeeded in that where the previous bum failed
- Fopa21

Are you actually making the case that Fletcher is a good GM? If so thanks, I needed a good laugh.

Last time I checked, old Cuckles:
Signed Hayes
Gave us AV and his French monkey boy
Brought in Nate Thompson twice
Hired a fossilized coach who should be retired
Brought us the joy of watching Yandle
Gave away a 2nd to move Ghost so he could have the pleasure of moving a 1st and a second to acquire a lesser player. Oh, and then, rather than admitting his mistake, he extends Risto.
Signs a goon to a 4 year deal

Yeah, Fletcher is a (frank)ing genius.

Are you actually making the case that Fletcher is a good GM? If so thanks, I needed a good laugh.

Last time I checked, old Cuckles:
Signed Hayes
Gave us AV and his French monkey boy
Brought in Nate Thompson twice
Hired a fossilized coach who should be retired
Brought us the joy of watching Yandle
Gave away a 2nd to move Ghost so he could have the pleasure of moving a 1st and a second to acquire a lesser player. Oh, and then, rather than admitting his mistake, he extends Risto.
Signs a goon to a 4 year deal

Yeah, Fletcher is a (frank)ing genius.
- BiggE

Agreed. I am very worried about the upcoming trade deadline & off season. He better not unload any of the players that Torts just worked his arse off to develop and get to be productive, or he risks alienating more fans.

Torts' need to assert dominance is frankly kinda sad.

He's like the dog at the park that does nothing but hump other dogs in the face, cuz he's insecure about pack order.

I don't think it's about dominance. Granted, his methods are rough, but what did we want to happen with this hire ? Anything less than this nuclear option and this team has proven over and over the last several years that they don't play hard enough, make too many mental mistakes and have lapses at key times in the game (slow starts or poor finishes). Ultimately, they've marginalized good coaches in the past.
So they haven't reached the promised land yet, but this team plays better than last year. They win more puck battles, don't implode when down a couple of goals and are doing what was needed in a year when they won't compete. They needed to find out which players to keep for the long haul. I think Torts is finding out. Did anyone think Hayes was going to be one of them ? Has he shown the tendency to be consistent or a defensive presence over his entire career ? Torts has unlocked a few players. TK has upped his game a full level, is now playing like a leader. York was sent down to be groomed in the minors and has returned to be a reliable d man. Laughton is a leader now too. His work ethic illustrates this and is getting results. Never thought I'd hear myself say it, but Frost is starting to emerge as a productive player. (He still has a ways to go) Tippet has improved his corsi & productivity. These are all positives in a lost season. I had trouble watching the games for a while, but with the above player improvements and Hart standing on his head, some of the games are watchable. That is saying something. I just hope they don't make more stupid moves in the off season to neutralize this progress.
- BluehorseShoe64

To this point there is no actual evidence that this team plays better than last year's team.

Agreed. I am very worried about the upcoming trade deadline & off season. He better not unload any of the players that Torts just worked his arse off to develop and get to be productive, or he risks alienating more fans.
- BluehorseShoe64

Which player and how specifically did Tortorella work his arse off to develop?

Are you actually making the case that Fletcher is a good GM? If so thanks, I needed a good laugh.

Last time I checked, old Cuckles:
Signed Hayes
Gave us AV and his French monkey boy
Brought in Nate Thompson twice
Hired a fossilized coach who should be retired
Brought us the joy of watching Yandle
Gave away a 2nd to move Ghost so he could have the pleasure of moving a 1st and a second to acquire a lesser player. Oh, and then, rather than admitting his mistake, he extends Risto.
Signs a goon to a 4 year deal

Yeah, Fletcher is a (frank)ing genius.
- BiggE

No. I’m not saying he is great. He definitely has his flaws but he has a track record of being a much better drafter than Hextall.

Hextall announced be patient then signed JVR ro an absurd 7 year deal. Wasted his “top llayers” prime years sitting on his hands like a stubborn sob. Signed chris vandevelde & etc 4 line bums. Risto has 1 less goal than proby & a better plus minus so Hexy must be an idiot for signing him. Most GMs do the same thing. Hexy & CF not much difference except CF might actually hit on his draft picks.

No. I’m not saying he is great. He definitely has his flaws but he has a track record of being a much better drafter than Hextall.

Hextall announced be patient then signed JVR ro an absurd 7 year deal. Wasted his “top llayers” prime years sitting on his hands like a stubborn sob. Signed chris vandevelde & etc 4 line bums. Risto has 1 less goal than proby & a better plus minus so Hexy must be an idiot for signing him. Most GMs do the same thing. Hexy & CF not much difference except CF might actually hit on his draft picks.
- Fopa21

What the (frank) does a GM who was fired over 4 years ago have to do with anything? Fletcher has made a mediocre team worse.

He’s had plenty of time. Case in point: Holmgren takes over a team in utter disarray in 2006. By 2008 they are in the conference final and by 2010 they are in the SCF. There is no defending Fletcher.

I’m not a Hextall fan, thought he was a meh GM at best and had no problem with his firing. But if you can’t see that Fletcher is even worse then I really don’t know what else to say.

Wut?

Ppl have ripped those other players for years. That's all we do around here, rip on everybody and everything.


- Tomahawk

I won't rip Provy, but I feel like he would benefit from a new environment and he has trade value. We need to change the mental state of the team. He has been around a lot of losing, not blaming him for it, but he's just been around it too much. And he hasn't improved enough in my mind. He is a target of a lot of teams' forechecks because he has a lot of turnovers. It is tricky because the organization doesn't have a ton of defensive prospects in the pipeline. A better GM would take advantage of cap space moving JVR, Hayes & Provy off the roster. This is how NJ did it. Took them a long time, but right now, we are stuck on Fletcher's tread mill.

Torts' need to assert dominance is frankly kinda sad.

He's like the dog at the park that does nothing but hump other dogs in the face, cuz he's insecure about pack order.

I don't think it's about dominance. Granted, his methods are rough, but what did we want to happen with this hire ? Anything less than this nuclear option and this team has proven over and over the last several years that they don't play hard enough, make too many mental mistakes and have lapses at key times in the game (slow starts or poor finishes). Ultimately, they've marginalized good coaches in the past.
So they haven't reached the promised land yet, but this team plays better than last year. They win more puck battles, don't implode when down a couple of goals and are doing what was needed in a year when they won't compete. They needed to find out which players to keep for the long haul. I think Torts is finding out. Did anyone think Hayes was going to be one of them ? Has he shown the tendency to be consistent or a defensive presence over his entire career ? Torts has unlocked a few players. TK has upped his game a full level, is now playing like a leader. York was sent down to be groomed in the minors and has returned to be a reliable d man. Laughton is a leader now too. His work ethic illustrates this and is getting results. Never thought I'd hear myself say it, but Frost is starting to emerge as a productive player. (He still has a ways to go) Tippet has improved his corsi & productivity. These are all positives in a lost season. I had trouble watching the games for a while, but with the above player improvements and Hart standing on his head, some of the games are watchable. That is saying something. I just hope they don't make more stupid moves in the off season to neutralize this progress.
- BluehorseShoe64

agree 100%

the whole point of a player like Cates staying in this lineup is that he should be versatile. We have to coddle Cates now?
- black_francis

Noah Cates is currently being used as a number 1 center. Is Cates a number 1 center in your opinion? Is he a number 2 center? The Cates I watched succeed was a hard forchecking left winger.

Which player and how specifically did Tortorella work his arse off to develop?
- MJL

You didn't read my post. I mentioned several.

If you don't think the coaching staff is working with these players, then you don't know anything about being a coach. I'll be cooperative and repeat one from my post...TK is reaching a new level because this coach didn't see him as a defensive liability like his predecessors (see AV). Torts understands the PK is about speed. So instead of limiting his ice time due to fear of being a liability, Torts increased it by putting him on all defensive situations. Totally boosted his confidence. If you watched any of the post game interviews with TK - he said it. Also, TK requested additional work with the coaching staff in the off season, and he received it. Are you tracking this team ?

I won't rip Provy, but I feel like he would benefit from a new environment and he has trade value. We need to change the mental state of the team. He has been around a lot of losing, not blaming him for it, but he's just been around it too much. And he hasn't improved enough in my mind. He is a target of a lot of teams' forechecks because he has a lot of turnovers. It is tricky because the organization doesn't have a ton of defensive prospects in the pipeline. A better GM would take advantage of cap space moving JVR, Hayes & Provy off the roster. This is how NJ did it. Took them a long time, but right now, we are stuck on Fletcher's tread mill.
- BluehorseShoe64

First of all, Provorov plays the most minutes of any of the defenseman. Are the other defenseman on the team the target of a lot of teams' forecheck or just Provorov. The Flyers are a target of other teams forecheck because of how much time they spend defending and how little time they spend attacking the other teams net. The Flyers have an issue in that they have 3 guys who play the left side and unless someone like Sanhiem moves to the right side. The Flyers have to make a decision on who to keep and who to move.

Key word is had. Most of those guys are established players outside of Frost and York. They are what they are. It’s all about what happens in this previous couple drafts and forward. I think we all know Farabee has more to give but the bottom line is we have an incredibly weak roster and it needs to improve through the draft
- ClaudeFather

Jay O’Brien hasn’t sniffed NHL ice yet. Who knows what Nolan Patrick could have been if he hadn’t taken so many shots to the head before age 22. I don’t think Morgan Frost has established anything yet. Felix Sandstorm becomes a regular back up at age 25. I wouldn’t say most of my list is established.

You didn't read my post. I mentioned several.

If you don't think the coaching staff is working with these players, then you don't know anything about being a coach. I'll be cooperative and repeat one from my post...TK is reaching a new level because this coach didn't see him as a defensive liability like his predecessors (see AV). Torts understands the PK is about speed. So instead of limiting his ice time due to fear of being a liability, Torts increased it by putting him on all defensive situations. Totally boosted his confidence. If you watched any of the post game interviews with TK - he said it. Also, TK requested additional work with the coaching staff in the off season, and he received it. Are you tracking this team ?
- BluehorseShoe64

I read your post, I don't agree with much of it. Tortorella has had nothing to do with the development of Konecny. He was that same player before Tortorella got here. The Flyers PK sits at a dismal 74.5%. Are you telling me that Konecny needed to play on the PK to be the offensive player he is?
All you're offering is anecdotal evidence. Reality is that Tortorella held Frost back for a good portion of the season. Is in the process of ruining Cates by playing him out of position and made a bad decision to send York back in the beginning of the season.

With your first comment, are you seriously implying that I'm suggesting that the coaches are not working with the players?


Players meeting and talking with coaches in the off season is not uncommon.

I'm tracking this team and I'm aware that they aren't better than last year. You said they are. What is the evidence of that?

The love fest the flyers exude for cates is approaching amac proportions
- Just5

Gonna die on the "Cates is a first line center" hill.

First of all, Provorov plays the most minutes of any of the defenseman. Are the other defenseman on the team the target of a lot of teams' forecheck or just Provorov. The Flyers are a target of other teams forecheck because of how much time they spend defending and how little time they spend attacking the other teams net. The Flyers have an issue in that they have 3 guys who play the left side and unless someone like Sanhiem moves to the right side. The Flyers have to make a decision on who to keep and who to move.
- MJL

I knew my post would be controversial, and I respect your point. This type of move shouldn't be made unless they had an opportunity to sign another #1 - a rare happenstance. NJ was able to sign D Hamilton in free agency, ignited their roster rebuild. As I said, I don't dislike Provy, just want to see new blood / new chemistry. It would even benefit his career, depending on where he goes.
Torts has said it. Many of the players are used to losing. If there's one thing the posters on this site agree on, this roster needs a face lift (not including the young players in development)

I knew my post would be controversial, and I respect your point. This type of move shouldn't be made unless they had an opportunity to sign another #1 - a rare happenstance. NJ was able to sign D Hamilton in free agency, ignited their roster rebuild. As I said, I don't dislike Provy, just want to see new blood / new chemistry. It would even benefit his career, depending on where he goes.
Torts has said it. Many of the players are used to losing. If there's one thing the posters on this site agree on, this roster needs a face lift (not including the young players in development)
- BluehorseShoe64

I didn't think that post was controversial. One thing I would like you to consider in moving Provorov is how did he get used to losing? This is a player that has had to play as the team's #1 defenseman since he was 19. Unless a player is a flat out stud such as Drew Doughty when he first came into the league. Most young defenseman don't take on that large of a responsibility on a team at that age. They're usually broken in playing on lower pairings with vet support and working their way up the lineup over time. So, if Provorov is moved, who is the #1 defenseman? Should they put out big bucks and sign a UFA to take over that role? At some point, this trend has to stop. The Flyers either rush a player or hold him back. Their development process is a mess. There needs to be vet support for young players entering the team, so they're not ruined. The Flyers have a decision to make with the left side of their defense,

Torts' need to assert dominance is frankly kinda sad.

He's like the dog at the park that does nothing but hump other dogs in the face, cuz he's insecure about pack order.

I don't think it's about dominance. Granted, his methods are rough, but what did we want to happen with this hire ? Anything less than this nuclear option and this team has proven over and over the last several years that they don't play hard enough, make too many mental mistakes and have lapses at key times in the game (slow starts or poor finishes). Ultimately, they've marginalized good coaches in the past.
So they haven't reached the promised land yet, but this team plays better than last ear. They win more puck battles, don't implode when down a couple of goals and are doing what was needed in a year when they won't compete. They needed to find out which players to keep for the long haul. I think Torts is finding out. Did anyone think Hayes was going to be one of them ? Has he shown the tendency to be consistent or a defensive presence over his entire career ? Torts has unlocked a few players. TK has upped his game a full level, is now playing like a leader. York was sent down to be groomed in the minors and has returned to be a reliable d man. Laughton is a leader now too. His work ethic illustrates this and is getting results. Never thought I'd hear myself say it, but Frost is starting to emerge as a productive player. (He still has a ways to go) Tippet has improved his corsi & productivity. These are all positives in a lost season. I had trouble watching the games for a while, but with the above player improvements and Hart standing on his head, some of the games are watchable. That is saying something. I just hope they don't make more stupid moves in the off season to neutralize this progress.
- BluehorseShoe64

TK's a bit of a weird case.

His 5v5 numbers this season have been brutal, particularly on the defensive side of the puck. He's worst out of the team's forwards in goals against and high danger goals against. Worst in expected goals, chances and high danger chances against. His PK numbers are at/near the bottom too.

But Torts seems oddly OK with all of that. Probably because TK is his preferred kind of skill player (emotional, competitive, self-motivated). Contrast that w/ Hayes, who has (much) better defensive numbers than TK at 5V5, but he's buried so deep in the doghouse that he can't see light anymore.

I actually think TK was playing better last season after the TDL, stepping up for Claude. Except a lot of the chances he was creating weren't getting buried.

I didn't think that post was controversial. One thing I would like you to consider in moving Provorov is how did he get used to losing? This is a player that has had to play as the team's #1 defenseman since he was 19. Unless a player is a flat out stud such as Drew Doughty when he first came into the league. Most young defenseman don't take on that large of a responsibility on a team at that age. They're usually broken in playing on lower pairings with vet support and working their way up the lineup over time. So, if Provorov is moved, who is the #1 defenseman? Should they put out big bucks and sign a UFA to take over that role? At some point, this trend has to stop. The Flyers either rush a player or hold him back. Their development process is a mess. There needs to be vet support for young players entering the team, so they're not ruined. The Flyers have a decision to make with the left side of their defense,
- MJL

The Flyers right now don't have a number 1 defenseman so if they move Provorov they still will be without a number 1 defenseman. I think Torts summed up Provorov nicely in yesterday's press conference. Provorov should focus on defending first instead of holding on to the puck and turning it over. The problem with Provorov is he thinks he is a number 1 defenseman and that gets him into trouble. As torts states, "Know thyself!" The bottom line is the Flyers have a logjam of highly priced mediocre defenseman and if they were smart, which they aren't, they would trade one or two of them at the deadline or this off season and aggressively draft and develop a true top end defender.

TK's a bit of a weird case.

His 5v5 numbers this season have been brutal, particularly on the defensive side of the puck. He's worst out of the team's forwards in goals against and high danger goals against. Worst in expected goals, chances and high danger chances against. His PK numbers are at/near the bottom too.

But Torts seems oddly OK with all of that. Probably because TK is his preferred kind of skill player (emotional, competitive, self-motivated). Contrast that w/ Hayes, who has (much) better defensive numbers than TK at 5V5, but he's buried so deep in the doghouse that he can't see light anymore.

I actually think TK was playing better last season after the TDL, stepping up for Claude. Except a lot of the chances he was creating weren't getting buried.
- Tomahawk

That's because these stats don't matter for a player like TK. What are these numbers like for other top line players across the league? I bet you they are bad, but maybe not as bad considering TK is playing for a vastly inferior team.

TK's a bit of a weird case.

His 5v5 numbers this season have been brutal, particularly on the defensive side of the puck. He's worst out of the team's forwards in goals against and high danger goals against. Worst in expected goals, chances and high danger chances against. His PK numbers are at/near the bottom too.

But Torts seems oddly OK with all of that. Probably because TK is his preferred kind of skill player (emotional, competitive, self-motivated). Contrast that w/ Hayes, who has (much) better defensive numbers than TK at 5V5, but he's buried so deep in the doghouse that he can't see light anymore.

I actually think TK was playing better last season after the TDL, stepping up for Claude. Except a lot of the chances he was creating weren't getting buried.
- Tomahawk

This is one of those cases where stats are misleading. I didn't think TK had a bite in last year's games. This year, he does. Why ? Part of this game is momentum. He is the flip side of Hart out there. He scores when it is needed, swings momentum. And he is an agitator, along with playing with tons of energy. Hart makes stops at key times of the game, even though his numbers aren't stellar. But both pass the eye test with flying colors. Because this year they both impact the game when needed.