Gaps bigger than that imo
- ClaudeFather

Yeah and that’s exactly what I was trying to feel out.

People have made out some other guys to be extremely good consolation prizes. I’m sure they will be good NHLers, but are we comparing the Malkin second fiddle OV or the Bobby Ryan second to Crosby.

I’m not as draft/prospect geared as some in here but to me it’s empty whatever to get a bedard.

Yeah and that’s exactly what I was trying to feel out.

People have made out some other guys to be extremely good consolation prizes. I’m sure they will be good NHLers, but are we comparing the Malkin second fiddle OV or the Bobby Ryan second to Crosby.

I’m not as draft/prospect geared as some in here but to me it’s empty whatever to get a bedard.
- stayinthefnnet

This is a good way to ask it. I think the Malkin 2 OV is what my understanding of it is, but as deep as the 2003 draft with forwards.

I was, yes. This was largely an exercise in how bedard is viewed just as much as it was an evaluation of where you think the flyers will actually finish / value those players.
- stayinthefnnet

Not saying Bedard is Crosby, and the 2023 draft is certainly deeper than 2005, but it would be akin to asking Craig Patrick to trade out of the Crosby pick for Simon Gagne, Kim Johnsson, Freddy Meyer and a #5-10 pick.

Like decent players and all, but not really what a team on a full rebuild needs to get them to pass on a potentially generational player.

Where ever we land, we need to hit that home run
- ClaudeFather

With our batting average, I see a swing and a miss whatever number we land with this braintrust at the helm.

Not saying Bedard is Crosby, and the 2023 draft is certainly deeper than 2005, but it would be akin to asking Craig Patrick to trade out of the Crosby pick for Simon Gagne, Kim Johnsson, Freddy Meyer and a #5-10 pick.

Like decent players and all, but not really what a team on a full rebuild needs to get them to pass on a potentially generational player.
- Tomahawk

That’s how my gut viewed it as well, but again there were whispers of 2 to 3 guys being THAT guy in this draft etc.

If the gap is a chasm (as admittedly I thought it was supposed to be all along until other guys getting talked up at the end of last year) then yeah it’s an easy choice. Bedard is looking like a franchise saving pick.

Apparently he deleted all his Red Wings related posts from his social accounts... looks like he's moving on.




He was a really really good 5v5 goal scorer, so maybe a team w/ contract slots and cap space may either claim him or swing a retained deal for him. But yeah, so many question marks.
- Tomahawk

I’ve seen a lot of this kid both live and on TV since coming to Detroit. I’m not sure of what’s going on with him personally but as a player, he’s under 27 years of age and when he plays, he’s one of the Red Wings better forwards that nobody seems to talk about.

No. What they ARE doing is trying to determine who can/should be pieces of the puzzle moving forward. Yes, they need a superstar. Yes, their cap situation is a mess. No, while they have some decent prospects in the pipeline, there isn't a franchise player.

As far as the draft lottery goes, it is what is it. If you are building from absolute scratch, you can draft Connor McDavid and Leon Draisaitl, have them become everything they were hyped to be, and still be far from a Cup contender. This is year 8 of McDavid's career. It's year 9 for Draisaitl. Both are bonafide superstars. The Oilers are currently barely clinging to the lower wildcard spot near the midpoint of the season. Colorado, with all of their injuries, has a higher points percentage and is one point behind with two games in hand.

This season MAY be the final (12th straight, 14th in the last 16) season where Buffalo finishes out of the playoffs before becoming a playoff club again. That's after years and years of drafting at or near the top.

Worry about building a team -- the Flyers still have a long way to go -- and not pining just for a guy who could win Art Ross Trophies on otherwise rotten to middling clubs. Whatever direction they go in, the Flyers will need no small amount of good luck, too.
- bmeltzer

Their cap is fine moving forward

With our batting average, I see a swing and a miss whatever number we land with this braintrust at the helm.
- konalover711

Uneducated. How’s Gauthier looking?

Yeah and that’s exactly what I was trying to feel out.

People have made out some other guys to be extremely good consolation prizes. I’m sure they will be good NHLers, but are we comparing the Malkin second fiddle OV or the Bobby Ryan second to Crosby.

I’m not as draft/prospect geared as some in here but to me it’s empty whatever to get a bedard.
- stayinthefnnet

I’m thinking Bobby Ryan. Like you said, it’s going to be an empty feeling missing out. The consolation prize isn’t going to make it feel any better.

If you watched any of the WJC games and saw Canada play, came away thinking Fantilli is a small step behind, you need your eyes thoroughly examined
- ClaudeFather

First of all, I did not watch any of the games.

Second of all, keep the condescension away because someone read/saw something different then you.

The Flyers should have no business taking on a question mark player with 5+M cap hit. He was a decent player at his best but no where near good enough to take that on.
- MJL

I agree. Let someone else help him out and figure out his game. I personally think Detroit is trying to sneak him through waivers so he has a prolonged conditioning stint as I dont think any GM wants the risk.

Uneducated. How’s Gauthier looking?
- Fopa21

Oh thank you mr brilliance bringing up a kid who has just started college.

You're right he has changed the trajectory of this franchise already we going to win a cup with him next year....start the parade jackass.
Crawl back into your hole.

Maybe. But If it happens it will be in the offseason, with 50% retained, and Chuck taking back an equally bad contract or throwing in a draft pick....or both.
- MBFlyerfan

I think you are greatly underestimating Hayes' market. I think the Flyers cover salary and that will be enough. A team that is contending and looking for depth at a reasonable price will certainly entertain getting Hayes.

Yawn

I think you are greatly underestimating Hayes' market. I think the Flyers cover salary and that will be enough. A team that is contending and looking for depth at a reasonable price will certainly entertain getting Hayes.
- jd250

Would love for you to be right, but that term will be the deal breaker, unless there is a perfect storm and a team really needs him, really, really and really needs him

I think you are greatly underestimating Hayes' market. I think the Flyers cover salary and that will be enough. A team that is contending and looking for depth at a reasonable price will certainly entertain getting Hayes.
- jd250

Be prepared to be disappointed. Why do you think that Tortorella doesn't like Hayes?

Would love for you to be right, but that term will be the deal breaker, unless there is a perfect storm and a team really needs him, really, really and really needs him
- wcorvette

Nothing in impossible. As Fletcher routinely proves. It only takes one clown GM. A trade of Hayes at the deadline is very unlikely.

His scoring stats are WAY down, and his advanced stats are also visibly worse this season than last.

Its a weird conundrum because the EYE test does seem that he is playing less bad. It seems like he has simplified his game but the stats say he is as bad or worse than he has ever been. Both advanced and scoring.


https://www.naturalstattr...te=r&v=p&playerid=8477499
- MBFlyerfan

His metrics look bad because Risto is not generating offense. I believe this is because he is taking the coaching from Torts and Shaw to heart and actively working on his positioning and defensive game, and yes, just watching him you can see he has vastly improved in that area of his game. He is no longer taking himself out of the play to deliver a big hit, he is getting himself in the shooting lanes and blocking shots and he is much more active with his reach and stick. He is doing what Torts wants, and that is to end plays and keep things to the outside. The cost of this has been Risto's offensive game. I however believe that once Risto gets more comfortable with the game Torts is asking him to play and it becomes more natural for him, his offense will return. He has 2 assists in his last 4 games and I have noticed him getting more pucks on net and being a bit more aggressive offensively. Risto may never be that 40+ point defenseman, but I will take 20 points and solid defense from him at this point.

Be prepared to be disappointed. Why do you think that Tortorella doesn't like Hayes?
- MJL

Because Hayes has been benched twice in 3rd periods and healthy scratched. I just don't believe the style Hayes prefers to play is compatible with what Tort's values in a player.

Would love for you to be right, but that term will be the deal breaker, unless there is a perfect storm and a team really needs him, really, really and really needs him
- wcorvette

Hayes in only 30 years old and is not owed all that much money in the next 3 years, the actual amount is $14.5M in salary and $2.5M in bonus. Hayes is also proving that he can play wing effectively and put up points. A contending team would not spend $4M x 3 for Hayes at this point, especially with the cap going up soon? I just don't see things as bleak as some want to make it.

His metrics look bad because Risto is not generating offense. I believe this is because he is taking the coaching from Torts and Shaw to heart and actively working on his positioning and defensive game, and yes, just watching him you can see he has vastly improved in that area of his game. He is no longer taking himself out of the play to deliver a big hit, he is getting himself in the shooting lanes and blocking shots and he is much more active with his reach and stick. He is doing what Torts wants, and that is to end plays and keep things to the outside. The cost of this has been Risto's offensive game. I however believe that once Risto gets more comfortable with the game Torts is asking him to play and it becomes more natural for him, his offense will return. He has 2 assists in his last 4 games and I have noticed him getting more pucks on net and being a bit more aggressive offensively. Risto may never be that 40+ point defenseman, but I will take 20 points and solid defense from him at this point.
- jd250

Defensive metrics are independent of offense. Other defenseman are playing on the same team under the same coach. I'm not sure how many times you're going to go to this well. Ristolainen has not improved. He has declined further to the point where he is no longer a viable top 4 defenseman and his contract makes him one of the worst player values in the league. Ristolainen is not capable of improving. He is in his 10th NHL season. It's only going to get worse.

Be prepared to be disappointed. Why do you think that Tortorella doesn't like Hayes?
- MJL

I would love it if Hayes is gone by the deadline but the off-season is much more likely, especially after the cap increase becomes clearer. Bettman was in Boston yesterday for the Fenway game and he said the Escrow from Covid has a good chance to be paid off this season, which means the cap goes up a lot more than expected. Bettman did not commit to anything but did say revenues have increased significantly this year and that is helping to pay things off.

Because Hayes has been benched twice in 3rd periods and healthy scratched. I just don't believe the style Hayes prefers to play is compatible with what Tort's values in a player.
- jd250

What values would that be specifically? That is the question. Not asking what makes you believe that Tortorella doesn't like Hayes.

Hayes in only 30 years old and is not owed all that much money in the next 3 years, the actual amount is $14.5M in salary and $2.5M in bonus. Hayes is also proving that he can play wing effectively and put up points. A contending team would not spend $4M x 3 for Hayes at this point, especially with the cap going up soon? I just don't see things as bleak as some want to make it.
- jd250

Contending teams don't care about the salary. Highly unlikely that a contending team would take on 3 years of term with Hayes regardless of retained salary.

Hayes in only 30 years old and is not owed all that much money in the next 3 years, the actual amount is $14.5M in salary and $2.5M in bonus. Hayes is also proving that he can play wing effectively and put up points. A contending team would not spend $4M x 3 for Hayes at this point, especially with the cap going up soon? I just don't see things as bleak as some want to make it.
- jd250

I am not making it seem anything, I get your point of view and would love you to be right but Hayes was just benched, has been unable to lift this version of the flyers, while putting up points he has been seen as a one way player, a thought that was reinforced by his benching. Most contenders have a specific plan for their cap and how they plan on moving forward, 3 more years of this Hayes, and most likely a lesser Hayes would only make sense in a desperate situation, my opinion