The Flyers sweep the California trip for the first time in flyers history?!
- Bob Habib

Correct, under the strong team put together by the legendary Chuck Flecther.

Just because other organizations are just as pitiful as the flyers the past decade doesn’t mean drafting #1 overall doesn’t work. And it sure beats whatever the Flyers are doing now
- ClaudeFather

Drafting first overall works when there's a team built around that player, and if he approaches his ceiling.

Let's say the Rangers, rather than doing a short rebuild in which cap space creation (to be able to acquire Panarin, Trouba and, over time, to sign Fox to an extension after his ELC) has been the biggest element had put all their eggs in the basket that Lafreniere and Kakko were going to be their saviors and to worry later about team-building.

The Colorado rebuild was actually TWO rebuilds, starting in 2008, and it still took drafting Makar after they already had Landeskog (2nd overall in 2012), McKinnon (1st overall in 2013) and Rantanen (10th overall in 2015) in place.

Pittsburgh built their b2b Cups off the Crosby (1st overall), Malkin (2nd overall), Fleury (1st overall), Letang (2nd rounder) nucleus. But how did they stay a perennial contender in the East for many, many years as they were annually traded off first round picks and one or both of Crosby/Malkin would miss stretches due to injury? Good fortunate in 77th overall pick Guentzel becoming a legit star in his own right. Some trades for vets that extended the window another year or two at a time.

All the Flyers have to do is stop believing that they can sign and trade their way there. They can't. Focus on the draft. No long term free agency or taking on older players with higher cap hits. Commit to the youth and keep drafting.
- MJL

I just don't see that happening with this current group in the front office. I see a team that will be perpetually up against the cap while finishing in the bottom 12. Just good enough to be not quite out of it until March, but not bad enough to be able to draft truly high end talent.

Hey Bill, with how surprisingly bad FLA has been playing this year, what would happen if their pick next year is top 10 given that they've traded away their 2025 pick (which also carries conditions)? Would they just keep pushing the picks back a year? I think their pick this year transfers to Montreal no matter what.

A team like Montreal or Vancouver might now want to wait for a player to develop, they might want a player like Provorov to build their D around. Plus Montreal has two top 10 picks currently.
- jd250

No knock on Provorov but if you were Montreal. Floundering and capped out. Would you trade a top 10 pick for Provorov? I wouldn't.

I hope the trade deadline this year will be an indication that they will be moving on from players in order to do so.
- ClaudeFather

They don't have much that will be a candidate to trade at the deadline for the value they need.

Drafting first overall works when there's a team built around that player, and if he approaches his ceiling.

Let's say the Rangers, rather than doing a short rebuild in which cap space creation (to be able to acquire Panarin, Trouba and, over time, to sign Fox to an extension after his ELC) has been the biggest element had put all their eggs in the basket that Lafreniere and Kakko were going to be their saviors and to worry later about team-building.

The Colorado rebuild was actually TWO rebuilds, starting in 2008, and it still took drafting Makar after they already had Landeskog (2nd overall in 2012), McKinnon (1st overall in 2013) and Rantanen (10th overall in 2015) in place.

Pittsburgh built their b2b Cups off the Crosby (1st overall), Malkin (2nd overall), Fleury (1st overall), Letang (2nd rounder) nucleus. But how did they stay a perennial contender in the East for many, many years as they were annually traded off first round picks and one or both of Crosby/Malkin would miss stretches due to injury? Good fortunate in 77th overall pick Guentzel becoming a legit star in his own right. Some trades for vets that extended the window another year or two at a time.
- bmeltzer

Bill, I hear what you are saying and every situation is different. My stance is the Flyers are in an extremely bad spot and we just picked #5 overall. They should be bottom 5 bad for at least a couple more years, and there were moves to be made to do that last trade deadline and off season. They could be doing that building through the draft for the next 4 seasons, add in a couple really high picks and in 6-7 years we might start to turn things around. This organization has shown time and time again once they think they are close to the playoffs, they will make decisions to solidify their bubble position.

They don't have much that will be a candidate to trade at the deadline for the value they need.
- MJL

More of a signaling towards it, coupled by the off season. Last year we trade franchise player and turn around and sign ND as well as trade picks and sign TDA.

Flyers blew the tank at last trade deadline. That was the point to trade guys like Risto and Sanheim and gather a bunch of picks. Continued with signing an unneccessary pieces like TD, ND and finished with the hiring of Torts who will get the most out of a lineup for a yr or so till the players tune him out. Nnnow everyone wants them to be sellers this deadline but there is nothing to sell...Jvr maybe gets a 3rd..Braun a 6th...they are stuck with Hayes..Risto..Sanheim..Couts..Atkinson....who does anyone propose they sell?? Laughton might get you a late 2nd same with Provorov. CF blew it at last yrs deadline and before that when he traded draft picks for nothing ( Risto and moving Ghost)

They don't have much that will be a candidate to trade at the deadline for the value they need.
- MJL

I don't think they would be doing it anyway, outside of JVR, Braun. I don't see them selling off players like Hayes, Konecny or Provorov because the front office just doesn't operate that way.

They will continue to feed us the line that because Couturier, Atkinson, and Ellis were hurt that we are much closer than their record indicates and all we have to do his spend to the cap on a few players that will put us over the top.

I just don't see that happening with this current group in the front office. I see a team that will be perpetually up against the cap while finishing in the bottom 12. Just good enough to be not quite out of it until March, but not bad enough to be able to draft truly high end talent.
- MBFlyerfan

I've never seen a more clueless front office. I don't advocate tanking but they need to commit to drafting and developing and accept that they have to get worse before getting better. Their methods and actions have only delayed getting better and made it more difficult. I hate to use this word, but the Flyers hockey ops and advisors are just plain stupid.

I realize that a lot of people have been saying trade Player A or Player B to create cap space or get high end draft picks. We have to keep in mind that our farm system is not flush with high end talent and we will need proven NHL goal scorers to play with any high end pick we get this draft. What good is having Bedard (pipe dream, I know) or another top 5 draft pick if they're playing with slugs?

Make the moves that make sense. Get a 2nd round pick back. Create some cap space. We are not going anywhere any time soon.

The continued evolution of Frost, Tippett, Cates, and York has been unexpected- in a good way. TK is playing as a clear cut first line winger.

dbth

Finishing at the very bottom of the league only gives you an 18% chance of getting him anyway and you just know with the Flyers luck that they wouldn't get him. Besides, there is no way the Flyers are finishing below the Hawks and Ducks anyway(also the Blue Jackets). They shouldn't have brought in a coach like Torts if they were truly gonna tank. Again, call it the usual mismanagement, but from a fan standpoint I'm glad to watch some real hockey versus the crap of the past few seasons where they would quit in many games.
- Phillywhiteout

Yep - those complaining that they're not tanking can go pound sand

Yep - those complaining that they're not tanking can go pound sand
- Scoob

I just hope the hawkey gods smile on us and reward them for at least trying to win. Unlike Chicago for example.

What should they do? Send York back to the Phantoms? Keep Hart on IR for the rest of the season and return Ersson to the Phantoms? Healthy scratch Konecny the rest of the year? Bench Tippett, recall Bellows and install him instead near the top of the lineup? Go back to giving Frost 10 mins of ice time a game and very few o-zone starts with two among Mac, Deslauriers or Bellows as his linemates again? Tell Hayes "you know what? We've been rethinking that expectation about two-way play. No need!" Rebreak JVR's fingers?

And THEN what happens if the roughly 80 percent odds of NOT getting Bedard even if you have the worst record in the league plays out as the odds strongly favor?
- bmeltzer

lol - great post! And you know if all of that did happen the peanut gallery would be screaming about horrible asset management.

Make the moves that make sense. Get a 2nd round pick back. Create some cap space. We are not going anywhere any time soon.
- cdearth23

Not expecting some miracle as a seller at the deadline, just do what they can do. Maybe that 2nd for O’Brien happens though.

On the other hand, if they stand completely pat or worse try to be buyers giving up more picks, the rage in the fanbase will be something to behold.

Yep - those complaining that they're not tanking can go pound sand
- Scoob

I'm against tanking but understand the rationale behind it. I personally wouldn't go so far to call this real hockey. The Flyers are not a good team and I'm not in favor of the way they play.

I just hope the hawkey gods smile on us and reward them for at least trying to win. Unlike Chicago for example.
- MBFlyerfan

lol I don't believe in that stuff but if I did I'd hope that would be the case, too

I'm against tanking but understand the rationale behind it. I personally wouldn't go so far to call this real hockey. The Flyers are not a good team and I'm not in favor of the way they play.
- MJL

They are not good. They play this way because they have to - it's the only chance they have to win.

Drafting first overall works when there's a team built around that player, and if he approaches his ceiling.

Let's say the Rangers, rather than doing a short rebuild in which cap space creation (to be able to acquire Panarin, Trouba and, over time, to sign Fox to an extension after his ELC) has been the biggest element had put all their eggs in the basket that Lafreniere and Kakko were going to be their saviors and to worry later about team-building.

The Colorado rebuild was actually TWO rebuilds, starting in 2008, and it still took drafting Makar after they already had Landeskog (2nd overall in 2012), McKinnon (1st overall in 2013) and Rantanen (10th overall in 2015) in place.

Pittsburgh built their b2b Cups off the Crosby (1st overall), Malkin (2nd overall), Fleury (1st overall), Letang (2nd rounder) nucleus. But how did they stay a perennial contender in the East for many, many years as they were annually traded off first round picks and one or both of Crosby/Malkin would miss stretches due to injury? Good fortunate in 77th overall pick Guentzel becoming a legit star in his own right. Some trades for vets that extended the window another year or two at a time.
- bmeltzer

What Rangers did was gather a ton of draft picks and use those draft picks very wisely. They traded two 2nds to get fox..they traded picks at the draft to move up and get K Miller and Schneider and because of the way they used their picks they have 3 of their top 5 Dmen. Add getting Lindgren in the Nash deal . That's how you use draft picks. CF should have been building a treasure chest of picks rather then throwing them away for nothing

Not expecting some miracle as a seller at the deadline, just do what they can do. Maybe that 2nd for O’Brien happens though.

On the other hand, if they stand completely pat or worse try to be buyers giving up more picks, the rage in the fanbase will be something to behold.
- NC Flyers Fan

We can't stand pat. I agree. But I don't see unloading Hayes, Provy, TK, etc. as viable options. JOB or JVR gets a 2nd, then yes. TK is our best player and we have him at a decent cap hit for 2 years. What team wants Hayes? I could see us moving on from Provy. Maybe Sanheim. But why rush? There may be deals to be had at the draft...?

We just have to suffer through the rest of this year.

I don't think they would be doing it anyway, outside of JVR, Braun. I don't see them selling off players like Hayes, Konecny or Provorov because the front office just doesn't operate that way.

They will continue to feed us the line that because Couturier, Atkinson, and Ellis were hurt that we are much closer than their record indicates and all we have to do his spend to the cap on a few players that will put us over the top.
- MBFlyerfan

Hayes will be traded, I don't see him surviving here under Torts. TK is part of the solution here, I don't think he should be traded. Provorov to me is the best candidate to move because the moron Fletcher resigned Sanheim and Risto and traded for DeAngelo.

We can't stand pat. I agree. But I don't see unloading Hayes, Provy, TK, etc. as viable options. JOB or JVR gets a 2nd, then yes. TK is our best player and we have him at a decent cap hit for 2 years. What team wants Hayes? I could see us moving on from Provy. Maybe Sanheim. But why rush? There may be deals to be had at the draft...?

We just have to suffer through the rest of this year.
- cdearth23

It feels less like suffering than the last two years did. Why? First, we mostly all entered the season with realistic expectations. Second, the youth are growing and that’s promising even without an offensive centerpiece. TK is top line and consistent, that wasn’t a given. Goaltending is the best of the strengths. Finally, Torts is something to talk about.