I like him better at wing. Cates has been good considering the role he has taken on. Would love to see him as a winger on a competent third or fourth line. He scores a good amount. I think he would score more at wing.
- mickel25

I wouldn't say he has been good in that role but that's not on him in my opinion. Cates is a solid defensive forward. Which is most likely why Tortorella has him at center. However, he is a black hole offensively at 5 on 5 and playing on the top line. You can't win anymore with a defensive checking center playing a high ice time role anymore. Cates brought the same quality of play away from the puck at wing and playing in a role that he is best suited for offensively. Forechecking and crashing the net. Cates does not have the puck skills to play a top 9 role at center., let alone on the top line.

Agreed, and I also can't stand that every big clean hit has to result in some sort of fight.

Dirty hit? Fine, go after the perpetrator. But a clean hit? Take it like a man, get his number, and repay in kind down the line.
- MBFlyerfan

Agree!!

Keep most of your draft picks. Draft and develop well. Sign the right players to longterm deals. Cash in on the players you decide not to keep. Add through trade and FA to finish off the roster for multiple chances at a cup. All of this takes patience and vision. Flyers have zero patience or vision.
- mickel25

Good points, all of them.

In my humble opinion, it is not enough. It takes aggressive moves to ensure a rebuild goes properly.

What moves has the team made in the last 2 years to signify they know the importance of the draft, and placement come draft day to acquiring high end talent? Trading assets for Risto? Moving picks for TDA? Holding on to Provorov, and Sanheim who are veteran players already? Bringing in Tortorella who everyone knew would squeeze a few more points from the team?

Nothing signifies they are rebuilding, and nothing signifies they know the importance of the draft.

The rebuild will be declared over as soon as they have a lick of cap space this summer. They are all too happy to be in a position to fight for a wildcard spot, or miss out on top players in the draft.

This was the perfect year to do it, still is. Yet we are going to hear about some sort of growth because they had a nice California trip.

Amen! But the real truth is this Flyers team does not even need Bedard to get out of purgatory. Sure Bedard is a dream to get but even if the Flyers get Fantilli or Leo Carlsson I think this current team would get a huge boost. Especially when you consider Gauthier and Andrea will be here next year also.

I agree with what Jason Myrtetus said yesterday, I want the Flyers to finish with a top 5 pick, but not at the expense of seeing TK, or Hart, or York failing. I want the best of the both worlds here. I want to see TK and Laughton continue to be the leaders of this team and I want to see Frost, Tippet, York, Cates etc. continue to develop. I believe we can have both, good player development and a team that finishes in the bottom 5 of the league. The way that happens is the Flyers need to trade as many veteran players as they can immediately and send Ersson back the the Phantoms. Bring up more young players and continue to develop them the rest of the way. Torts and his staff are doing a great job IMO, and I would like whomever is drafted this year to come in here and have a solid & young team to play with. I think that can happen if Flyers management acts soon!
- jd250

While I share your optimism that the Flyers can turn this more quickly than most it will take at least 3 years. Assume TK, 25 and I think we now see the complete player, who should be really good through his prime years. Now take Cutter, yes higher initial pick, different skill set but it will still take 3 years, at least, to see a version of Cutter who is a difference maker, same thing with this years pick.

You could get some luck with prior picks like Tyson Foerster, and Brink was just activated and will play today I think. Maybe Desnoyers is better than we know. I mean those 2 and Lycksell are 1,2 and 3 in scoring for LHV.


Folks that wanted trades last season, all roster players values were in the toilet, it was natural that CF valued the player more than the market, it doesn't justify overpaying to keep them.

I like that Farabee is hitting a grove, the Flyers have a young core who seem to be stepping forward.

With the kids in LHV and Cutter, I think you might see a Farabee or a Frost moved when their value peaks for CF. Then maybe other values rise enough to move them, like a Sanheim, Provy or RR.

A lot of IF'S as usual with this franchise

Top players make it a hell of a lot easier to succeed, or make mistakes in other areas of team building.

For an organization that has an incredibly hard time winning in other areas of development, and overall management it would massively help.

The point stands that they had a perfect chance this season at trying to maximize their odds at Bedard, or another one of the highly touted kids.

They chose to place more importance yet again, on other things.

I’m not sure how much evidence is needed that the Flyer way is downright wrong.
- FlyerFan3260

So lose on purpose?

Ive read it is waiting for voter approval. Either way it is still 2 to 3 seasons away.
- MBFlyerfan

I'm out of the loop on this one - is taxpayer funding part of the equation?

So lose on purpose?
- Scoob

If you are asking whether the right move is for them to put themselves into a spot to gather high end picks for a few seasons...

Then yes.

Or we can continue on with the status quo. It's worked wonders.

Good points, all of them.

In my humble opinion, it is not enough. It takes aggressive moves to ensure a rebuild goes properly.

What moves has the team made in the last 2 years to signify they know the importance of the draft, and placement come draft day to acquiring high end talent? Trading assets for Risto? Moving picks for TDA? Holding on to Provorov, and Sanheim who are veteran players already? Bringing in Tortorella who everyone knew would squeeze a few more points from the team?

Nothing signifies they are rebuilding, and nothing signifies they know the importance of the draft.

The rebuild will be declared over as soon as they have a lick of cap space this summer. They are all too happy to be in a position to fight for a wildcard spot, or miss out on top players in the draft.

This was the perfect year to do it, still is. Yet we are going to hear about some sort of growth because they had a nice California trip.
- FlyerFan3260

I agree 100%. Flyers have zero patience or vision. Moving out Hayes, Risto and TDA would be a good start. Problem is Hayes and Risto are almost untradable. TDA might get you something at this year's TDL if he keeps putting up points. Not a whole lot to trade and I do not trust the guy working the deals.

I'm out of the loop on this one - is taxpayer funding part of the equation?
- Scoob

If I read it correctly, the Coyotes are covering most if not all of the expenses. Covering 1.9 billion of the 2.1 billion estimated cost. The vote has to do with zoning changes for the land they propose to use.

I have been saying this for a long time. 100% agree.

As for Bill, I do not know what you expect from him. He is harsh sometimes in his own eloquent way. He is just not going to openly bash the team or a single player. He is a professional. I don't think he is soft on the team overall. He just won't go to the level of vitriol we want him to.

I also do not think Bill has any power to change this organization. Do you really think if Bill was tougher on the team they would suddenly realize how poorly they are run?
- mickel25

lol, no, but if Bill agreed with him it'd be super cool.

I agree 100%. Flyers have zero patience or vision. Moving out Hayes, Risto and TDA would be a good start. Problem is Hayes and Risto are almost untradable. TDA might get you something at this year's TDL if he keeps putting up points. Not a whole lot to trade and I do not trust the guy working the deals.
- mickel25

Just seeing how many picks they traded away to move Ghost (2nd), Get Risto (Hagg, 1st, 2nd), and TDA (2nd, 3rd, 4th) should have been grounds for dismissal. And then to sign those mistakes to huge contracts just shows you that this team has no clue as to where they really stand as a competitive franchise.

If you are asking whether the right move is for them to put themselves into a spot to gather high end picks for a few seasons...

Then yes.

Or we can continue on with the status quo. It's worked wonders.
- FlyerFan3260

You're on the lose on purpose boat. Noted.

If I read it correctly, the Coyotes are covering most if not all of the expenses. Covering 1.9 billion of the 2.1 billion estimated cost. The vote has to do with zoning changes for the land they propose to use.
- MBFlyerfan

Got it - thanks

Just seeing how many picks they traded away to move Ghost (2nd), Get Risto (Hagg, 1st, 2nd), and TDA (2nd, 3rd, 4th) should have been grounds for dismissal. And then to sign those mistakes to huge contracts just shows you that this team has no clue as to where they really stand as a competitive franchise.
- MBFlyerfan

Yep

You're on the lose on purpose boat. Noted.
- Scoob

I'll ask you the same question.

Is it about success for the team? Or about your beliefs being right?

The answer has already been given, but if we are making official statements.

I'll ask you the same question.

Is it about success for the team? Or about your beliefs being right?

The answer has already been given, but if we are making official statements.
- FlyerFan3260

I am never in favor of losing on purpose. It's a low integrity, high risk play.

I am never in favor of losing on purpose. It's a low integrity, high risk play.
- Scoob

Thanks

I am never in favor of losing on purpose. It's a low integrity, high risk play.
- Scoob

Neither am I but that doesn't mean that the Flyers shouldn't favor the future in their decision making. For example, I don't believe that Hextall sought out to trade Brayden Schenn. However, when he received a deal that was too good to turn down for the future. He took it. Defaulting to the future and make moves for the future, is not losing on purpose.

Hypothetical time.

Not knowing where the Flyers ultimately end up picking, need to make this trade today.

Trade a locked guarantee for the first overall selection for wherever the flyers end up picking with their first, and two of TK, provorov, and York.
- stayinthefnnet

Are we talking about the 2023 1st-overall pick?

Because I don't believe that package gets you anywhere close. Not this year.

Simultaneously, it's also a horrible idea to put all your eggs in one basket (see: Eric Lindros)

Vrana on waivers, not sure what happened with the player assistance program but he was a good player in Washington

Are we talking about the 2023 1st-overall pick?

Because I don't believe that package gets you anywhere close. Not this year.
- Tomahawk

You’d need a team like Arizona to put together a package. Cooley, their next best prospect, and three first rounders. Not guys like Provy and TK. York also a nice player but his ceiling doesn’t get anyone excited.

You’d need a team like Arizona to put together a package. Cooley, their next best prospect, and three first rounders. Not guys like Provy and TK. York also a nice player but his ceiling doesn’t get anyone excited.
- ClaudeFather

Maybe you could have gotten a team to trade down to #2 or #3 before the WJC, but not now. Bedard is a 17 yo absolutely outclassing all of the best 19 yo players on the planet. The gap between him and the other 2023 hopefuls is epic.

Maybe you could have gotten a team to trade down to #2 or #3 before the WJC, but not now. Bedard is a 17 yo absolutely outclassing all of the best 19 yo players on the planet. The gap between him and the other 2023 hopefuls is epic.
- Tomahawk

Yup, it’s an ignore the phone Situation. TK and Provy lol. Someone on here said there are 3 Patrick kanes in this draft 😂 there’s Bedard and then just some other guys. Carlson before injury and Fantili have showed that there are going to be some sad teams at #2/3 . Getting #1 is a game changer

Ive read it is waiting for voter approval. Either way it is still 2 to 3 seasons away.
- MBFlyerfan

Yes 7-0 Council vote.
People vote May '23
It is quite an extensive mixed use project, hotels entertainment etc.

Should pass people...
But yeah still a long way away.

Maybe once he comes back off IR he will get a look.
- MBFlyerfan

This isn’t the point. Torts was playing him on the wing. That’s where Torts wanted Laczynski.