Really hate this take, just because other organizations are bad doesn’t mean getting top end talent isn’t absolutely necessary. Literally every single team that has won the the past decade was built from acquiring top picks. Blues maybe the anomaly
- ClaudeFather

I don't think you got the gist of what he was trying to say. Think about why they don't have young talent and the reasons for that. Even if they get a couple of high picks, then what? He's looking at the underlying causes and he is dead correct.

Sooo we should strive to pick 9th overall until there’s maybe a miracle to get out of this? Travis Konecny is not a franchise player, he’s a first line winger. He’s not going to carry a team, he can be a big part of a team.
- ClaudeFather

I'm not suggesting striving for 9th. The team got lucky and blew the 2nd overall pick. The debate I have is what player carries a team. TK is certainly carrying the team now. Sure it is not a good team, but that is not his fault. I guess what I am getting it is how many elite (foundational) players at a minimum a team needs to be a true contender. I do not know the answer. I would suggest TK's current level of play would warrant that distinction.

I think Aristotle was thinking of the 2022-23 Flyers when he coined the ‘whole is greater than the sum of its parts.’

I don't think it did at all, and came across very bitter if you ask me. Comparing Torts to Sutter in LA was just unfair. He has no idea what its like in the Flyers locker room right now.
- jd250

I wish Tortorella was as good of a coach as Sutter. Sutter came into LA and changed that team. Tortorella is our "Terry Murray". Hopefully there is a Sutter in the future.

The lightning were terrible and drafted high when he took over. He got his pieces in the draft and inherited Hedman and Stamkos. Why you think building the foundation through the draft would not be going on at the same time as picking a top prospect in the front of the draft is asinine
- ClaudeFather

Yeah, he inherited a really deep Norfolk/Syracuse feeder team too. Dudes like Palat, Panik, Killorn, Conacher, etc. And Jon Cooper.

I'm not suggesting striving for 9th. The team got lucky and blew the 2nd overall pick. The debate I have is what player carries a team. TK is certainly carrying the team now. Sure it is not a good team, but that is not his fault. I guess what I am getting it is how many elite (foundational) players at a minimum a team needs to be a true contender. I do not know the answer. I would suggest TK's current level of play would warrant that distinction.
- Trox88

At Konecny's current level of play, if you add an elite center and an elite defenseman. That's a start.

I don't think you got the gist of what he was trying to say. Think about why they don't have young talent and the reasons for that. Even if they get a couple of high picks, then what? He's looking at the underlying causes and he is dead correct.
- MJL

Everyone knows they need to clean house in management and development, this isn’t news

Yeah, he inherited a really deep Norfolk/Syracuse feeder team too. Dudes like Tyler Johnson, Palat, Panik, Killorn, Conacher, etc. And Jon Cooper.
- Tomahawk

The ground work was there, he didn’t perform some miracle. He did draft well though

Everyone knows they need to clean house in management and development, this isn’t news
- ClaudeFather

It isn't. That again wasn't the point. I have a question, if this team improves under Tortorella and starts sniffing the playoffs next season. What does this organization do?

I don't think you got the gist of what he was trying to say. Think about why they don't have young talent and the reasons for that. Even if they get a couple of high picks, then what? He's looking at the underlying causes and he is dead correct.
- MJL

Appreciate your understanding.

Bill, when is the next media availability for Fletcher?

I’m looking forward to an update on Couturier as this team gears up for the playoff push.
- StepfordSam

The medical staff is trying to raise its profile by coordinating a simultaneous return of Couturier, Atkinson and Ellis.

Again, we will have to agree to disagree. I am not sure what is the difference in highlighted. In my view foundation is the system- not the draft.

Also, I may disagree with you, but I won't label your point of view as "asinine", and, I think, I earned reciprocation.
- missingmike

There are pieces on this roster than can contribute to a winning team, we aren’t starting with an AHL roster, drafting Bedard and imagining we are competing. It’s gonna take a few years and drafting closer to #1 will be much more beneficial than drafting at #10. We need high end talent. This organization is headed to Hextall purgatory again.

It isn't. That again wasn't the point. I have a question, if this team improves under Tortorella and starts sniffing the playoffs next season. What does this organization do?
- MJL

We all know what would happen MJL, that’s exactly why I said we need to clean house

We all know what would happen MJL, that’s exactly why I said we need to clean house
- ClaudeFather

Then why are you disagreeing with him? That's what he's saying. Getting a few top picks and all is great but it's not enough. He's not saying that top picks and talent isn't needed.

The ground work was there, he didn’t perform some miracle. He did draft well though
- ClaudeFather

He got away with whiffing on a lot of high picks: Drouin, Koekkoek, TDA, Connolly, Erne, Stephens, Cal Foote, Hajek, Masin, Howden, etc...

Lucky for him Vasi, Point, Cirelli and Kuch saved his bacon.

And he also pulled off a few straight murders via trade: Sergachev, the Point pick (haha Chuck), Cernak, Bishop, Downie for the Vasi pick, Gagne for Matt Walker (haha Homer), etc.

The Vinny CBO was perfectly timed, too.

No GM has a perfect record. Flyers GMs are in a realm of their own tho lol.

That is the problem with hiring Torts, he is a good coach and has a track record of getting the most out of his rosters. Professional athletes and coaches are wired to win, that is why they are where they are in the first place.
- jd250

Hiring an incompetent/unqualified coach, or one who gets on board with intentionally losing would be malpractice.

The problem isn't the hiring of Tortorella. The problem is not assembling a quality roster for the stream of coaches who have passed through here in the last decade plus.

He got away with whiffing on a lot of high picks: Drouin, Koekkoek, TDA, Connolly, Erne, Stephens, Cal Foote, Hajek, Masin, Howden, etc...

Lucky for him Vasi, Point, Cirelli and Kuch saved his bacon.

And he also pulled off a few straight murders via trade: Sergachev, the Point pick (haha Chuck), Cernak, Bishop, Downie for the Vasi pick, Gagne for Matt Walker (haha Homer), etc.

The Vinny CBO was perfectly timed, too.

No GM has a perfect record. Flyers GMs are in a realm of their own tho lol.
- Tomahawk

His trades were unreal. That one playoff run Drouin looked like he was a budding superstar, idk what happened with that guy

You think his buddy Hayes isn't feeding him PBP of what's going on behind the scenes?
- Tomahawk

If he was, wouldn't PB know whether there was or was not a discussion about why he was benched for the third period? They all said that they didn't know if there was, yet carried on the discussion as if there wasn't.

It isn't. That again wasn't the point. I have a question, if this team improves under Tortorella and starts sniffing the playoffs next season. What does this organization do?
- MJL

If the same management team is in place they'll sign an aging vet to a ridiculous contract.

He got away with whiffing on a lot of high picks: Drouin, Koekkoek, TDA, Connolly, Erne, Stephens, Cal Foote, Hajek, Masin, Howden, etc...

Lucky for him Vasi, Point, Cirelli and Kuch saved his bacon.

And he also pulled off a few straight murders via trade: Sergachev, the Point pick (haha Chuck), Cernak, Bishop, Downie for the Vasi pick, Gagne for Matt Walker (haha Homer), etc.

The Vinny CBO was perfectly timed, too.

No GM has a perfect record. Flyers GMs are in a realm of their own tho lol.
- Tomahawk

He also is an all star at negotiating contracts. I wonder if it had to do with him being an ex player. I had heard Yzerman was good at the "one good pair of shoes" speech. Essentially, how much money do you really need? Enough to buy one good car, one good pair of jeans and shoes. That multiple cars don't make you happier.

He also is an all star at negotiating contracts. I wonder if it had to do with him being an ex player. I had heard Yzerman was good at the "one good pair of shoes" speech. Essentially, how much money do you really need? Enough to buy one good car, one good pair of jeans and shoes. That multiple cars don't make you happier.
- Aaron_85

I can think of a few that would put a smile on my face for a good while. :-)

He also is an all star at negotiating contracts. I wonder if it had to do with him being an ex player. I had heard Yzerman was good at the "one good pair of shoes" speech. Essentially, how much money do you really need? Enough to buy one good car, one good pair of jeans and shoes. That multiple cars don't make you happier.
- Aaron_85

Seems to me that at the end of the day the thing that separates the good GMs from the bad ones is avoiding the backbreaking mistake. Yzerman's tenure wasn't perfect but he was quick to recover when he stumbled and always kept the franchise marching toward the future.

Meanwhile, Holmgren and Fletcher have basically Bane'd the Flyers' back multiple times each lol. Same w/ Burke and Nonis.

Seems to me that at the end of the day the thing that separates the good GMs from the bad ones is avoiding the backbreaking mistake. Yzerman's tenure wasn't perfect but he was quick to recover when he stumbled and always kept the franchise marching toward the future.

Meanwhile, Holmgren and Fletcher have basically Bane'd the Flyers' back multiple times each lol. Same w/ Burke and Nonis.
- Tomahawk

Yeah good GMs recognize mistakes and correct them or do what they can to avoid them in the future. Dubas has done that.

I can think of a few that would put a smile on my face for a good while. :-)
- Scoob

Sure but with NHL money they can rent them or lease them for a bit instead of wasting money on buying them.

I know Biz is buddies w/ Hayes, so he's stickinging up for his boy, but some of the stuff he says about the way Torts handles his players lands squarely.
- Tomahawk

He was on point about the Tortorella hire as a distraction to the fan base as to how bad things are.

But then I think, how can the fans NOT know how bad it is even with Torts?