You listen to real Kyper and Bourne?
- ClaudeFather

No, is that a catchphrase of theirs or something?

IMO big minute transition dman is the most important piece.

While it's still possible to win with middling goaltending and goalscoring by committee, you don't see any teams winning w/o their 25+ min dman being able to retrieve and transition at a reliably elite level. Carolina is the only team that managed to do that thru committee right out of the lockout, otherwise it's been a non-stop parade of the best dmen in the league winning Cups.

It's a big reason why the Flyers haven't been great with Provy as their #1.
- Tomahawk

I would still say the #1 center is the most important but a Makar or Hedman make all the difference in the world. You don’t need a great #2 with a stud#1. But teams have won without a elite#1 D in the past.

I went back to look at the Flyers 75 Cup. Clarke and MacLeish at C, Kerr and Barber on the wings, an elite Bernie in goal but no elite D man.

No, is that a catchphrase of theirs or something?
- Tomahawk

Toronto podcast, not sure if you just had allegiance to Marner or the Leafs lol. Nick Kypreous was crushing the flyers, they don’t deserve Bedard, they don’t even know how to tank. Mentioned who’s even worth anything n the team and directly called our giving Risto $25M 😂

Kris letang wasn’t there for one of the cups
- ClaudeFather

Someone tho could argue that Justin Schultz played like he was elite in that playoff.

Someone tho could argue that Justin Schultz played like he was elite in that playoff.
- Minnyhock

Another add to the list, the unsung hero!

Another add to the list, the unsung hero!
- ClaudeFather

Good point. I would add that it helps to have at least two depth or secondary players that overachieve.

I think Bob Mckenzie said it on some broadcast once. That cup winners need two players who are game changers. Guys who can elevate their game and just take over a game. Doesn't mean both do it in the same game just two. Avs had MacK and Makar, Tampa had Vasi, Kuch, Stammer...Chicago had Keith, Kane, Toews...etc...

Doesn't guarantee cup wins but it's a recipe for it. Just food for thought.
- Aaron_85

Hard to argue with this, and it pretty much holds true across different eras

Mid 70s Philly: Clarke and Parent
Late 70s Habs: Lafleur, Dryden & Robinson
Early 80s Isles: Potvin & Bossy
mid 80s Oilers: Gretzky, Messier & Kurri
early 90s Pens: Mario, Francis & Jagr
Late 90s/early 2000s Wings: Federov, Yzerman & Lidstrom
Late 90s/early 2000s Avs: Roy, Sakic & Forsberg
Late 90s/early 2000s Devils: Marty, Niedermayer and Stevens

I would still say the #1 center is the most important but a Makar or Hedman make all the difference in the world. You don’t need a great #2 with a stud#1. But teams have won without a elite#1 D in the past.

I went back to look at the Flyers 75 Cup. Clarke and MacLeish at C, Kerr and Barber on the wings, an elite Bernie in goal but no elite D man.
- Minnyhock

I think you mean Reggie Leach, not Kerr, lol.

Toronto podcast, not sure if you just had allegiance to Marner or the Leafs lol. Nick Kypreous was crushing the flyers, they don’t deserve Bedard, they don’t even know how to tank. Mentioned who’s even worth anything n the team and directly called our giving Risto $25M 😂
- ClaudeFather

I barely feel an allegiance to the Flyers lol, much less any other team.

I disagree. All the recent Cup winners had at least one elite winger. Rantanen, Kucherov, Ovi, Kessel, Hossa, etc. That elite center isn’t making it happen without help.
- Minnyhock

I didn't say it wasn't important. I said that an elite center and elite defenseman is more important. Is an elite winger making it happen without help?

I think you mean Reggie Leach, not Kerr, lol.
- BiggE

Lol thanks. I see Kerr was 15 at the time. He was great tho.

Kris letang wasn’t there for one of the cups
- ClaudeFather

Letang was there for the 09 and 16 Cup wins.

I didn't say it wasn't important. I said that an elite center and elite defenseman is more important. Is an elite winger making it happen without help?
- MJL

I understand what you’re saying. Just disagree. No one is making it happen alone. Teams have won with a good D core but I don’t can’t think of any examples of anyone winning without an elite or near elite winger.

Someone tho could argue that Justin Schultz played like he was elite in that playoff.
- Minnyhock

Yes, I think the fact that the 2017 Pens remaining defenseman played out of their minds is part of it. The other part is that their competition weren’t complete-team contenders that year so defense by committee worked.

Also my list for consistent contenders should read: top-producing goalie, center, defenseman, winger and at least one other impact skater. It goes without saying that depth and fitting the pieces and coaching must be in place as well.

Which rebuilding team looking to take the next step? Teams that are in a rebuilding phase are not normally looking to give up first round picks.
- MJL

teams that haven been rebuilding for a few seasons and feel ready to take the next step. A team like Detroit for example.

I would still say the #1 center is the most important but a Makar or Hedman make all the difference in the world. You don’t need a great #2 with a stud#1. But teams have won without a elite#1 D in the past.

I went back to look at the Flyers 75 Cup. Clarke and MacLeish at C, Kerr and Barber on the wings, an elite Bernie in goal but no elite D man.
- Minnyhock

The sport was different back then. You just needed physical defenseman who were strong in their own end, who could make a decent pass. Jimmy Watson was an all star.

Letang was there for the 09 and 16 Cup wins.
- MJL

but not 17.

Letang was there for the 09 and 16 Cup wins.
- MJL

Yes, I’m well aware

teams that haven been rebuilding for a few seasons and feel ready to take the next step. A team like Detroit for example.
- jd250

What do the Flyers need in return? Why is a rebuilding team like Detroit, who sits 23rd in the league and is just two points ahead of the Flyers. Going to give up a first rounder or high level prospect for Provorov, who turns 26 in a few days? They're in the same spot as the Flyers.

The sport was different back then. You just needed physical defenseman who were strong in their own end, who could make a decent pass. Jimmy Watson was an all star.
- MJL[/quote

The game was different back then. But I’m more familiar with recent times and think evidence shows that you need that kind of a winger.

What do the Flyers need in return? Why is a rebuilding team like Detroit, who sits 23rd in the league and is just two points ahead of the Flyers. Going to give up a first rounder or high level prospect for Provorov, who turns 26 in a few days? They're in the same spot as the Flyers.
- MJL

No, they are not in the same spot as the Flyers. They are prob about 5 years ahead of the flyers in rebuilding....if not more

teams that haven been rebuilding for a few seasons and feel ready to take the next step. A team like Detroit for example.
- jd250

Why would a team that already has Hronek and Seider, just drafted Edvinsson 6th-overall not that long ago, have any interest in 2+ years of Ivan Provorov?

Does that sound like a Steve Yzerman kind of move to you?

The game was different back then. But I’m more familiar with recent times and think evidence shows that you need that kind of a winger.
- Minnyhock

You do need it but again, it's about ranking the need. On Colorado, it's Makar and McKinnon and then Rantanen. On TB, it's probably Hedman and Kucherov. They don't really have an elite center.

Why would a team that already has Hronek and Seider, just drafted Edvinsson 6th-overall not that long ago, have any interest in 2+ years of Ivan Provorov?

Does that sound like a Steve Yzerman kind of move to you?
- Tomahawk

Yzerman isn’t trading his 23 1st period, unless it’s at the draft in an attempt to move up or down.

You do need it but again, it's about ranking the need. On Colorado, it's Makar and McKinnon and then Rantanen. On TB, it's probably Hedman and Kucherov. They don't really have an elite center.
- MJL

Point is pretty elite, especially in the playoffs.
Last 3 postseasons 30 goals and 61 points in 55 games. But all of that aside, I’d argue that Vasi is the biggest reason for their playoff success