You do need it but again, it's about ranking the need. On Colorado, it's Makar and McKinnon and then Rantanen. On TB, it's probably Hedman and Kucherov. They don't really have an elite center.
- MJL

Both those examples show elite wingers. Stamkos has had an elite career and he and Point fit the 1-2 center. There aren’t enough like Makar, Hedman and Josi to go around. All teams have multiple 22 minute defensemen. Imo you can win without an elite D man but not an elite winger. There are more elite wingers than D men so that’s where the focus should be.

Point is pretty elite, especially in the playoffs.
Last 3 postseasons 30 goals and 61 points in 55 games. But all of that aside, I’d argue that Vasi is the biggest reason for their playoff success
- BiggE

There’s always going to be a mix of great pieces on a Stanley cup winning team. Prioritizing one thing for argument sake is pointless because it’s different team by team.

Point is pretty elite, especially in the playoffs.
Last 3 postseasons 30 goals and 61 points in 55 games. But all of that aside, I’d argue that Vasi is the biggest reason for their playoff success
- BiggE

No doubt but I was considering Point as another winger. TB has 5 elite players. Hedman, Kucherov, Point. I guess Stamkos sometimes plays center so he could be considered their elite center. Then Vasilevsky. Then a collection of really good players remaining.

Both those examples show elite wingers. Stamkos has had an elite career and he and Point fit the 1-2 center. There aren’t enough like Makar, Hedman and Josi to go around. All teams have multiple 22 minute defensemen. Imo you can’t win without an elite D man or an elite winger. But there are more elite wingers than D men so that’s where the focus should be.
- Minnyhock

We're not on the same page here. I rank defense and center above a winger.

Provy takes up 8% of salary cap. Which team can allocate that much on a #2/3 defenseman and still contend?
- Tomahawk

Tampa next year?

We're not on the same page here. I rank defense and center above a winger.
- MJL

Yeah, I rank the elite winger slightly higher then D. Besides Fox and the 3 D men I mentioned, you realistically have a hard time getting elite on D. But you can get that winger if you prioritize. We’ll just have to disagree.

Yeah, I rank the elite winger slightly higher then D. Besides Fox and the 3 D men I mentioned, you realistically have a hard time getting elite on D. But you can get that winger if you prioritize. We’ll just have to disagree.
- Minnyhock

That seems like a different conversation to me. Which player is harder to get.

There’s always going to be a mix of great pieces on a Stanley cup winning team. Prioritizing one thing for argument sake is pointless because it’s different team by team.
- ClaudeFather

Agreed but there are 3 things every Cup team needs:

Great goaltending, not necessarily a great goaltender but one who gets hot at the right time

Depth. Following an 82 game schedule with 4 rounds of playoffs is grueling. You don’t win without quality depth

Luck. You need most of your best players to avoid injuries and you need some puck luck to get thru 4 rounds of playoff hockey.

Think about what you're saying here. Montreal traded Chiarot is what was an obvious move in a rebuild to get a 1st round pick. Now you're saying that they're going to turn around and trade a top 10 pick to get more experience on their blueline?

There is no chance that Montreal trades a top 10 pick for Provorov. Florida's first round pick is top 10 protected.
- MJL

Florida pick is not top 10 protected which makes that trade even worse

That seems like a different conversation to me. Which player is harder to get.
- MJL

Every Stanley Cup winner has an elite or near elite winger and at least 1-2 really good wings. You can win a Cup without an elite D. The Blues recently won a Cup without an elite D man. Pietrangelo is not elite.

New blog

Every Stanley Cup winner has an elite or near elite winger and at least 1-2 really good wings. You can win a Cup without an elite D. The Blues recently won a Cup without an elite D man. Pietrangelo is not elite.
- Minnyhock

Pietrangelo finished 9th in Norris trophy voting in 18 and 4th in 2020. Pretty elite.

Do you consider Tarasenko elite?

Who was the elite winger on the Kings Cup teams?

Who was the elite winger on the 2011 Bruins Cup team?

Pietrangelo finished 9th in Norris trophy voting in 18 and 4th in 2020. Pretty elite.

Do you consider Tarasenko elite?

Who was the elite winger on the Kings Cup teams?

Who was the elite winger on the 2011 Bruins Cup team?
- MJL

But Pietragelo wasn’t in the top 20 for Norris in their Cup year.

Terasenko was definitely elite up through 2019 and scored 11 goals in the playoffs.

That 2011 Bruins team was an anamoly so yeah.

Dustin Brown was elite in the 2012 playoffs.

Marion Gaborik was super as a deadline player and scored 14 goals in 2014.

There have been more teams that won without an elite defenseman.

Imo I’m right and I think your position is held by most people and I respect it. It’s been a good conversation for me but I think this thread is dead.

But Pietragelo wasn’t in the top 20 for Norris in their Cup year.

Terasenko was definitely elite up through 2019 and scored 11 goals in the playoffs.

That 2011 Bruins team was an anamoly so yeah.

Dustin Brown was elite in the 2012 playoffs.

Marion Gaborik was super as a deadline player and scored 14 goals in 2014.

There have been more teams that won without an elite defenseman.

Imo I’m right and I think your position is held by most people and I respect it. It’s been a good conversation for me but I think this thread is dead.
- Minnyhock

Pietrangelo has been a 3 time top 5 finisher overall and 4 times in the top 10 in Norris trophy voting in his career. He was the top scoring defenseman in that playoffs and led all of the playoffs in assists. How is that not elite using the same standards that you apply to players such as Brown and Gaborik?

Tarasenko was 58th in the league in scoring in the 18/19 season.

You're making statements that have been proven incorrect.

Here is the bottom line. If I have the 4th overall pick and I don't have a stacked position so that need off sets it. If I have two prospects rated equally and one is a center and the other is a winger. I'm taking the center. Same with defenseman versus a winger. Winger is the least important position on the ice.

It has been a good conversation.

Pietrangelo has been a 3 time top 5 finisher overall and 4 times in the top 10 in Norris trophy voting in his career. He was the top scoring defenseman in that playoffs and led all of the playoffs in assists. How is that not elite using the same standards that you apply to players such as Brown and Gaborik?

Tarasenko was 58th in the league in scoring in the 18/19 season.

You're making statements that have been proven incorrect.

Here is the bottom line. If I have the 4th overall pick and I don't have a stacked position so that need off sets it. If I have two prospects rated equally and one is a center and the other is a winger. I'm taking the center. Same with defenseman versus a winger. Winger is the least important position on the ice.

It has been a good conversation.
- MJL

Imo Pietrangelo is very good but not elite. He logs big minutes but that doesn’t make him elite. The voting doesn’t impact what I see. My standard for elite may differ from yours. Today, I see Makar, Hedman, Josi, Fox, McAvoy and Heiskanen as elite.That’s all. There are up and comers who could enter in but the sample is too small. I don’t see Pietrangelo even close to any of those players. He and Tarasenko both sucked the 1st half of that year. Blues were last in the league on January 3.

I’m still going with the center, wing and defense in your scenario. The collaboration between the center and wing pays more dividends imo.

Not MJL, but I have a feeling the best we could hope for would be a Brayden Schenn type of deal. Two low 1sts and taking a big contract back in return.
- Tomahawk

Scrolling, read this and first thought is do it, as long as cap dump is 1-2 years

Good game to see where they are as a team