Yes, but which position is considered more valuable?

Cheaper to draft defense then trading for it.
- kingcong39

Isnt it harder to project defensive talent as opposed to a goal scorer?

Also nhl rosters feature twice as many forwards as opposed to defenseman.

Forwards can definitely be traded for a 4th dman. Were not talking top pairing. We have 3 already.

You said a few years, which is 2 or 3.

I said 5 years, which is not the 7 years.

Samuelsson is a good defender in year 5, this season right? 2018 draft 🤔
- Boss34

You now Defenseman grow at different rates, like I said Tristan Luneau could be here by this TDL, and he was selected I think 10 spots after are 2nd rnd pick. Sabres are going to have to go out and buy a Defenseman or 2. Would have been nice to have his replacement in the pipeline.

I think you're being kinda optimistic at 2-3 years for a defenseman.

Samuelsson a 2018 draft pick is finally playing well.
Although even he's stagnant lately.

Dahlin is finally a top pro.

It takes time, better buying a 4th guy. IMO
- Boss34

Why not draft a guy and buy a guy?

You're acting like it's one or the other when it should be both.

What makes you think this season was playoff or bust ?

They took Ben Bishop’s contract just to hit the floor.

And as much as I’d love to end the drought this year, the fact of that matter is they wouldn’t stand a chance against Boston or Carolina in a first round playoff matchup.

The Sabres are focused on the intermediate term and I’ve seen nothing this year to suggest that we aren’t on the right path
- Swedish_Jesus

I’m confused, I thought you were Mr. Win it all or tank? Now you’re happy we’re gonna pick 12th and not end the drought?

You said a few years, which is 2 or 3.

I said 5 years, which is not the 7 years.

Samuelsson is a good defender in year 5, this season right? 2018 draft 🤔
- Boss34

And Samuelsson took so long because his skating sucked, if he hadn't hired a skating coach he might never have made it.

So it's a prove it year and now they have to do paper shuffles because they weren't prepared to make decisions at the appropriate times.
- Buff36

Upl played his way into the conversation.

Our goalies really got banged up last season. Probably smart to have 3, when one is 42 years old.

Yes, maybe they shouldnt have signed him, but he's an all time American goalie that could help both comrie and upl grow.

Good point with the paper moves, I didnt like losing fitz either.

Quinn and peterka also played themselves into spots early this season. Maybe that wasnt expected?

And Samuelsson took so long because his skating sucked, if he hadn't hired a skating coach he might never have made it.
- Buff36

This post kinda proves my point.

2nd rounders are gonna have flaws, such as skating woes.

Could you come up with a better example of a defenseman picked in the 2nd round that's a meaningful nhl defenseman in 2-3 years.

Samuelsson seems like a dream to me. What a find.

*I'm not tying to be sarcastic and appreciate the good convo

Upl played his way into the conversation.

Our goalies really got banged up last season. Probably smart to have 3, when one is 42 years old.

Yes, maybe they shouldnt have signed him, but he's an all time American goalie that could help both comrie and upl grow.

Good point with the paper moves, I didnt like losing fitz either.

Quinn and peterka also played themselves into spots early this season. Maybe that wasnt expected?
- Boss34

What didn't you like about losing Fitzgerald?

Why not draft a guy and buy a guy?

You're acting like it's one or the other when it should be both.
- kingcong39

Looks to me like they're following the Tampa model.

Defensemen are much harder to scout than forwards and technically you need more high end forwards than d-men to win. It kinda reminds of pitching in baseball. So wildly unpredictable drafting that teams started to put their drafting efforts into position players and using budget room to sign established pitchers in FA.

I mention Tampa because IIRC, only of their top six was a lightning draft pick. Hedman way back when. Cernak, Sergachev, McDonagh were all trades.

I think the theory is, in order to time the build right and maximize the compete window, you need to draft with a little more predictability. I.e, they were pretty sure they knew when Quinn and Peterka were going to be full time NHLers. A non high end d-man is a little tougher to predict since their development is seldom ever linear.

Of course, this could all be moot if they take like 9 d men this summer lol.

Upl played his way into the conversation.

Our goalies really got banged up last season. Probably smart to have 3, when one is 42 years old.

Yes, maybe they shouldnt have signed him, but he's an all time American goalie that could help both comrie and upl grow.

Good point with the paper moves, I didnt like losing fitz either.

Quinn and peterka also played themselves into spots early this season. Maybe that wasnt expected?
- Boss34

It's almost like they didn't expect a lot to happen. It is what it is, they have done a lot of good things. But it almost feels they left these kids out to dry the last month or so, and with these fake papers shuffles, even more so. Think they had a opportunity Boss and missed it.

Looks to me like they're following the Tampa model.

Defensemen are much harder to scout than forwards and technically you need more high end forwards than d-men to win. It kinda reminds of pitching in baseball. So wildly unpredictable drafting that teams started to put their drafting efforts into position players and using budget room to sign established pitchers in FA.

I mention Tampa because IIRC, only of their top six was a lightning draft pick. Hedman way back when. Cernak, Sergachev, McDonagh were all trades.

I think the theory is, in order to time the build right and maximize the compete window, you need to draft with a little more predictability. I.e, they were pretty sure they knew when Quinn and Peterka were going to be full time NHLers. A non high end d-man is a little tougher to predict since their development is seldom ever linear.

Of course, this could all be moot if they take like 9 d men this summer lol.
- Michael Ghofrani

So they're trading Matt Savoie for a defenseman?

That's similar to how Tampa got Sergachev.

So they're trading Matt Savoie for a defenseman?

That's similar to how Tampa got Sergachev.
- kingcong39

Or Rosen, Ostlund, Kulich, one of the russians, this coming first rounder etc.

But yeah when you follow this model you wind up with an excess of forwards and there aren't enough top six slots.

Or Rosen, Ostlund, Kulich, one of the russians, this coming first rounder etc.

But yeah when you follow this model you wind up with an excess of forwards and there aren't enough top six slots.
- Michael Ghofrani

Going to take a highly thought of forward prospect to get a highly touted defenseman along the lines of Sergachev.

Right now, that's Savoie or maybe Kulich.

Doubt Rosen, Ostlund or any of the Russians are getting a trade like that done.

Going to take a highly thought of forward prospect to get a highly touted defenseman along the lines of Sergachev.

Right now, that's Savoie or maybe Kulich.

Doubt Rosen, Ostlund or any of the Russians are getting a trade like that done.
- kingcong39

The beauty of having two first overall picks on defense is, you don't need to acquire a highly touted defenseman.

You just need someone better than Jokiharju lol.

This post kinda proves my point.

2nd rounders are gonna have flaws, such as skating woes.

Could you come up with a better example of a defenseman picked in the 2nd round that's a meaningful nhl defenseman in 2-3 years.

Samuelsson seems like a dream to me. What a find.

*I'm not tying to be sarcastic and appreciate the good convo
- Boss34

Justin Faulk, Sam Girard just of the top. And Samuelsson is a find.

Kevyn Adams was a NTC away from looking like a genius the way Murray is playing.

C'est la vie.

Looks to me like they're following the Tampa model.

Defensemen are much harder to scout than forwards and technically you need more high end forwards than d-men to win. It kinda reminds of pitching in baseball. So wildly unpredictable drafting that teams started to put their drafting efforts into position players and using budget room to sign established pitchers in FA.

I mention Tampa because IIRC, only of their top six was a lightning draft pick. Hedman way back when. Cernak, Sergachev, McDonagh were all trades.

I think the theory is, in order to time the build right and maximize the compete window, you need to draft with a little more predictability. I.e, they were pretty sure they knew when Quinn and Peterka were going to be full time NHLers. A non high end d-man is a little tougher to predict since their development is seldom ever linear.

Of course, this could all be moot if they take like 9 d men this summer lol.
- Michael Ghofrani

Is that really their model, or just how things played out? Quick look at their drafts shows a lot of D in the first few rounds.

On a side note -

- ROR gets a DWI

- Lehner has severe personal issues and now filing for bankruptcy

- Evander Kane …. Don’t have enough internet ink to list all his problems

And people actually think Botterill was worse than Murray

Is that really their model, or just how things played out? Quick look at their drafts shows a lot of D in the first few rounds.
- Lunaion

Ventura era model

Wade Simmons and Foligno just had a decent scrap

Is that really their model, or just how things played out? Quick look at their drafts shows a lot of D in the first few rounds.
- Lunaion

Well we know Cernak was from a trade. It was one of the 2nds traded in the McNabb trade.

I’m confused, I thought you were Mr. Win it all or tank? Now you’re happy we’re gonna pick 12th and not end the drought?
- sbroads24

This team isn’t bad enough to tank, not good enough for a cup.

I fail to see how this season is only a success if they make the playoffs though. There is some meaningful development going on with the young talent on the team.

New Jersey didn’t make the playoffs last year and look just fine this year.

Well we know Cernak was from a trade. It was one of the 2nds traded in the McNabb trade.
- Buff36

Oh he meant Tampa, my bad.

Even factoring in the run of D they took in 2014, 2013-2017 drafting from Tampa was heavier on forwards than D.

On a side note -

- ROR gets a DWI

- Lehner has severe personal issues and now filing for bankruptcy

- Evander Kane …. Don’t have enough internet ink to list all his problems

And people actually think Botterill was worse than Murray
- sbroads24

Murray assembled a group of skilled, misfit toys

Botterill was death by a thousand cuts - mediocre moves made along the periphery while not addressing any real problems.

Is one better than the other? Idk

Kevyn Adams was a NTC away from looking like a genius the way Murray is playing.

C'est la vie.
- Michael Ghofrani

Also would have ended up with Marco Kasper over Ostlund (nothing against Ostlund but Kasper would have been a perfect fit in our middle 6)