There was a time when the Flyers used to hit on late firsts (Gagne, Richards, Giroux, J Williams, etc) like clockwork but there's no more Simon Nolet or Chris Pryor at the draft table anymore. And for all of Holmgren's hilarious deficiencies as a GM, he actually did a good job directing the draft working under Bob Clarke.

I just don't have the same confident in the current group of scouts and Brent Flahr.
- Tomahawk

This is my main issue. It’s not completely. Lack and white but it worries me that the team does not have a discernible plan and just shifts Willy nilly. If you’re in rebuild, do it and be honest. Don’t say aggressive retool and then back off. Stuck in neutral which isn’t a plan.

They've certainly improved and are on a nice run and are easier to watch. They weren't good last night though but I kind of expected that.
-MJL

I don't think the Flyers played bad last night. The Flyers got up 3-1 on the road and played a sound road 3rd period, focused on shutting the Caps down. I am sure the possession metrics were bad, as were the shots discrepancy, but it seems to me the Flyers were not trying to score once they got up 3-1, even when on the PP.

The issue I have is it has become almost routine. We need to do better scouting and developing. Tk is progressing a lot but here we are discussing trade options for provy. Once he gets run out of town I believe he’ll become what we all have hoped. Just for another team.
- Hextall271

Is Provey being run out of town? I know some in the media are speculating because, lets face it, we all want the Flyers to tank this season and do a full rebuild. But its not going to happen, not as long as Comcast owns the team and Fletcher is the GM. I think the Flyers are smart to listen to offers for any of their players, but that does not mean the Flyers are looking to trade the player. I am sure Fletcher gets called weekly to see if Provey is available and why not, Provey is a solid top 4 defenseman who eats minutes, any contending team would want that. Unless its true Provey has asked to be traded, as I believe Hayes has, I don't think anything is imminent.

This is my main issue. It’s not completely. Lack and white but it worries me that the team does not have a discernible plan and just shifts Willy nilly. If you’re in rebuild, do it and be honest. Don’t say aggressive retool and then back off. Stuck in neutral which isn’t a plan.
- Hextall271

That's why I think Fletcher deserves to the canned, because its not clear to me, by what he says or what he does, that there is a long term vision for this team. Winging it just guarantees another decade of mediocrity unless by some miracle a player like Tage Thompson falls into our lap. But the team is playing well, I think playing the best they can given the players they have and for that Torts and his staff deserve a lot of credit. But in the long run this just pushes the franchise farther away from the top-end talent they need to actually be something worth rooting for. Fletcher needs to trade JVR and Hayes now before this gets out of hand, and if there is a great offer for Provey trade him also. The focus should be to free up real cap space and collect assets in this year's draft. That is the best way forward IMO.

Draft's deep, there's gonna be elite players taken after pick 10 this year... up to our crack scouting staff to unearth another TK instead of a JOB.
- Tomahawk

Doesn't Brent Flahr have a good enough drafting record to garner some hope that he will draft a player that has a good chance of turning pro? I think he is a really good drafter.

I don't think the Flyers played bad last night. The Flyers got up 3-1 on the road and played a sound road 3rd period, focused on shutting the Caps down. I am sure the possession metrics were bad, as were the shots discrepancy, but it seems to me the Flyers were not trying to score once they got up 3-1, even when on the PP.
- jd250

Interesting. What's your explanation for the first period. Shot attempts 21-10 Caps. Scoring chances 10-2 Caps and high danger chances 6-0 Caps. Getting peppered by the opposition while your goalie stands on his head is not playing a sound 3rd period.

Is Provey being run out of town? I know some in the media are speculating because, lets face it, we all want the Flyers to tank this season and do a full rebuild. But its not going to happen, not as long as Comcast owns the team and Fletcher is the GM. I think the Flyers are smart to listen to offers for any of their players, but that does not mean the Flyers are looking to trade the player. I am sure Fletcher gets called weekly to see if Provey is available and why not, Provey is a solid top 4 defenseman who eats minutes, any contending team would want that. Unless its true Provey has asked to be traded, as I believe Hayes has, I don't think anything is imminent.
- jd250

So you don't believe the media reports concerning Provorov but you believe that Hayes has asked to be traded.

So today feels like 4-2 and an empty net 5-2. I hope I am wrong but we will see how the Flyers play vs the top team

That's why I think Fletcher deserves to the canned, because its not clear to me, by what he says or what he does, that there is a long term vision for this team. Winging it just guarantees another decade of mediocrity unless by some miracle a player like Tage Thompson falls into our lap. But the team is playing well, I think playing the best they can given the players they have and for that Torts and his staff deserve a lot of credit. But in the long run this just pushes the franchise farther away from the top-end talent they need to actually be something worth rooting for. Fletcher needs to trade JVR and Hayes now before this gets out of hand, and if there is a great offer for Provey trade him also. The focus should be to free up real cap space and collect assets in this year's draft. That is the best way forward IMO.
- jd250

Fletcher has been winging it since he got the job. Including 2 Summer ago where he made moves that you said put the team on the path to the Cup. If you recall in our debate on those moves. I told you that it was more likely that those moves would damage the future of the team. It's not out of hand now?

Doesn't Brent Flahr have a good enough drafting record to garner some hope that he will draft a player that has a good chance of turning pro? I think he is a really good drafter.
- jd250

Let's deal in the facts. What evidence can you provide to show that Flahr is a really good drafter?

https://www.broadstreetho...arter-hart-stats-analysis

I don't think the Flyers played bad last night. The Flyers got up 3-1 on the road and played a sound road 3rd period, focused on shutting the Caps down. I am sure the possession metrics were bad, as were the shots discrepancy, but it seems to me the Flyers were not trying to score once they got up 3-1, even when on the PP.
- jd250

They were soundly outplayed by the Caps which I expected after losing to the Flyers a few days earlier. The method that they used to get the victory was the method that they used earlier in the season (great goalie play and timely scoring). This is the first time that they have been soundly outplayed in awhile though.

This is my main issue. It’s not completely. Lack and white but it worries me that the team does not have a discernible plan and just shifts Willy nilly. If you’re in rebuild, do it and be honest. Don’t say aggressive retool and then back off. Stuck in neutral which isn’t a plan.
- Hextall271

Spot on!

Interesting. What's your explanation for the first period. Shot attempts 21-10 Caps. Scoring chances 10-2 Caps and high danger chances 6-0 Caps. Getting peppered by the opposition while your goalie stands on his head is not playing a sound 3rd period.
- MJL

The Caps came out hard in the first period which is to be expected on the back half of a home and home where the home team lost the first game. The Flyers weathered the storm, took advantage of their chances on the PP or when the Caps were poor in their own end, and then shut things down in the 3rd. I thought it was a good team road win.

Kind of funny that I just wandered over to the Pens blog and one of the commenters complained that Hextall has one foot in win now mode and one foot in rebuild mode. Sound familiar to anyone here?

The Caps came out hard in the first period which is to be expected on the back half of a home and home where the home team lost the first game. The Flyers weathered the storm, took advantage of their chances on the PP or when the Caps were poor in their own end, and then shut things down in the 3rd. I thought it was a good team road win.
- jd250

They didn't shut down anything in the 3rd. They got shellacked in the 3rd and the goalie stood on his head. They didn't play well. They will lose the majority of the games if they play at that level.

Let's deal in the facts. What evidence can you provide to show that Flahr is a really good drafter?
- MJL

2019
York - top 4 NHL defenseman
Brink - will be playing the Flyers before the season is over
Attard - Leading defensive scorer in college, developing in AHL

2020
Foerster - AHL
Andrae - Good chance to be on the Flyers next season
Wisdom - AHL
Desnoyers - AHL

2021
Kolosov - goalie putting up similar numbers to Sorokin and Shesterkin

2022
Gauthier - has top line potential, will be on the Flyers next season
Kaplan - playing very well for BU in his freshman season, 15 pts in 21 games.

They didn't shut down anything in the 3rd. They got shellacked in the 3rd and the goalie stood on his head. They didn't play well. They will lose the majority of the games if they play at that level.
- MJL

Well Torts and I disagree with you.

2019
York - top 4 NHL defenseman
Brink - will be playing the Flyers before the season is over
Attard - Leading defensive scorer in college, developing in AHL

2020
Foerster - AHL
Andrae - Good chance to be on the Flyers next season
Wisdom - AHL
Desnoyers - AHL

2021
Kolosov - goalie putting up similar numbers to Sorokin and Shesterkin

2022
Gauthier - has top line potential, will be on the Flyers next season
- jd250

Do I seriously need to explain to you that there is one player on that list who has shown he can play in the NHL. The rest are prospects with potential. Not to mention speculation, such as Gauthier will be on the Flyers next season. How in the world is that evidence that Flahr is a good drafter. Why did you waste time typing that? Unbeleivable.

I recently watched an episode of the Sopranos where Christopher and his crew were robbing trucks. In this episode o e of the drivers asked the crew to please rough him up and tie him up to make it look like he put up a fight. The driver even had his own rope. Long story short, they beat up the driver, take his shipment and walk away.

Chuck Fletcher reminds me of this truck drivers. How do you go into full rebuild when you pretty much gave all you assets away, without a real fight? We have no second round picks. Florida would have gave us a first round pick in the 2043 draft if they could have. Our GM gets beaten up and other GM take whatever they want.

Sorry if this is a silly comparison. I just think Chuck is making things too easy for other teams.

Well Torts and I disagree with you.
- jd250

The facts are the facts.

Fletcher has been winging it since he got the job. Including 2 Summer ago where he made moves that you said put the team on the path to the Cup. If you recall in our debate on those moves. I told you that it was more likely that those moves would damage the future of the team. It's not out of hand now?
- MJL

Did those moves really damage the future of the team? Lets look into each one of them.

1. Flyers trade Shayne Gostisbehere, 2022 2nd, 2022 7th for cap space - IMPACT: Negative for Flyers

2. Ellis for Patrick and Myers - Ellis may never play again but the Flyers can spend his cap money. Patrick and Myers are done as NHL players! IMPACT: Negligible

3. Atkinson for Voracek - Flyers saved $2.5M in cap space per season, Atkinson scored 23 goals for the Flyers last season, Voracek scored 6 goals. Both players are out and may never play again. IMPACT: Net positive for the Flyers

4. Risto for 14th pick, 2023 2nd round pick and Hagg - not including the resign here because that was a separate transaction that happened later in the season. Risto had a poor season for the Flyers, but has rebounded this season. Buffalo picked Isak Rosen who is struggling in the AHL, and Hagg moved from Buffalo to Florida to Detroit where he has 2 pts and is a -8. The Flyers will likely get a 2nd round pick a the deadline this year. IMPACT: Negligible

5. Martin Jones as free agent - played very well for the Flyers in a backup roll last season. It cost the Flyers only $2M for 1 season. IMPACT: Positive for the Flyers

6. Keith Yandle as free agent - signed for 1 year at veteran minimum, played way more than he should of because of injuries and his stupid streak. IMPACT: Negative for Flyers, could have used his slot to develop a younger player

So did these move really damage the future of the team? IMO not so much. Now re-signing Risto, trading for DeAngelo and signing Hayes to his contract did much more damage to the Flyers future than these off-season moves.

Do I seriously need to explain to you that there is one player on that list who has shown he can play in the NHL. The rest are prospects with potential. Not to mention speculation, such as Gauthier will be on the Flyers next season. How in the world is that evidence that Flahr is a good drafter. Why did you waste time typing that? Unbeleivable.
- MJL

Drafting is all about potential, what else is there but potential before you start development? The fact is most of these players have all developed into professional hockey players, and two more will be so quickly. In 4 drafts, that is a pretty good record IMO.

Did those moves really damage the future of the team? Lets look into each one of them.



2. Ellis for Patrick and Myers - Ellis may never play again but the Flyers can spend his cap money. Patrick and Myers are done as NHL players! IMPACT: Negligible


- jd250

It's not negligible. A team that needs to rebuild stuck in LTIR with a player who will not likely play again for the team is damaging.

3. Atkinson for Voracek - Flyers saved $2.5M in cap space per season, Atkinson scored 23 goals for the Flyers last season, Voracek scored 6 goals. Both players are out and may never play again. IMPACT: Net positive for the Flyers


- jd250

Flyers took on more term and traded the better player. Voracek finished 74th in the league in scoring while Atkinson finished 129th. One player is a playmaker and the other a goal scorer. Voracek was still elite at playmaking while Atkinson was not at goal scoring. The Flyers were hurt more by the loss of Voracek than they were helped by the addition of Atkinson. While not an awful trade. It was not a well thought out trade by Fletcher.

4. Risto for 14th pick, 2023 2nd round pick and Hagg - not including the resign here because that was a separate transaction that happened later in the season. Risto had a poor season for the Flyers, but has rebounded this season. Buffalo picked Isak Rosen who is struggling in the AHL, and Hagg moved from Buffalo to Florida to Detroit where he has 2 pts and is a -8. The Flyers will likely get a 2nd round pick a the deadline this year. IMPACT: Negligible


- jd250

Ristolainen has not rebounded. He has regressed. He is no longer a top 4 defenseman who can put up some points. He is now a 3rd pair defender who is very average even at that level. Only in your world is giving up a first round pick and extending him at 5M for a 3rd pair defenseman have a negligible impact on the team's future. That is delusional. Not to mention throwing in speculation that the Flyers might get a 2nd round pick at the deadline. In everyone's world but yours, two 2nd round picks are better than one. Who Buffalo picked is irrelvant and not a factor. We don't know who the Flyers might have picked.

So did these move really damage the future of the team? IMO not so much. Now re-signing Risto, trading for DeAngelo and signing Hayes to his contract did much more damage to the Flyers future than these off-season moves.
- jd250

Those moves have been devastating to the Flyers. By any standard. Certainly didn't put them on the path to the cup as you stated.

Drafting is all about potential, what else is there but potential before you start development? The fact is most of these players have all developed into professional hockey players, and two more will be so quickly. In 4 drafts, that is a pretty good record IMO.
- jd250

LOL. Proof of drafting well is having drafted players develop into quality NHL players. There is no record. One player is in the NHL and jury is still out on him as well.