And he has 2 years of trade protection! 😆 Many forget that, because it's so ridiculous.
- THE EVIL WITHIN

Lol.

Wasn’t he one of the first players off the board in ufa?

Notice how I worded my reply. It contained the word also at the end which implies that it's not only coaching but that coaching is a part of it.

You can reply in the manner you did here or you could actually offer some form of conversation and we can debate it.
- MJL

We've already debated. You think Torts is an archaic coach and I think he is getting the most out of a very weak roster (especially at the forward position). This team is void of centers essentially and that is the most important position as far as forwards go. You have Cates and Frost as your #1 and #2 centers. That's brutal. The fact that this team is near hockey .500 is damn near a miracle.

We've already debated. You think Torts is an archaic coach and think he is getting the most out of a very weak roster (especially at the forward position). This team is void of centers essentially and that is the most important position as far as forwards go. You have Cates and Frost as your #1 and #2 centers. That's brutal. The fact that this team is near hockey .500 is damn near a miracle.
- Phillywhiteout

By far the two biggest reasons why this team went on a little run was goaltending and the individual play of Konecny. If you want to give Tortorella credit for that, knock yourself out. The Flyers flaws were exposed today. Not just talent and roster wise but also scheme and coaching wise.

I'm in nerd mode, so I compiled a list of almost every player who's signed a 6+ year extension coming off an ELC:


Generally met/meeting contract value:

- McDavid
- Eichel
- OV
- RNH
- Nylander
- Ekblad
- Q. Hughes
- Kyrou
- Tarasenko
- Svechnikov
- J. Hughes
- Hischier
- E. Karlsson
- Rantanen
- MacKinnon
- Landeskog
- Makar
- Hall
- Hintz
- Heiskanen
- Marner
- Fox
- F. Forsberg
- McDonagh
- Kopitar
- Doughty
- Ehlers
- B. Tkachuk
- Chabot
- Toews
- Kane
- S. Jones
- Skinner
- Keller
- Schmaltz
- Hanifin


Exceeded/exceeding contract value:

- Scheifele
- K. Conner
- Josi
- Pastrnak
- S Theodore
- Draisaitl
- Horvat
- TK
- Slavin
- Pesce
- Seguin
- R Andersson
- Batherson
- Klingberg
- Tuch
- T. Thompson
- OEL


Mixed bag/debateable:

- Brodin (offense never materialized, but still one of best defenders in league)
- Monahan (injuries killed him for years)
- Farabee (inconsistent)
- Provorov (inconsistent, possibly stunted)
- Skjei (not quite as good as advertised)
- Eberle (good but overpaid)
- J Norris (injured to begin new contract)
- Ghost (inconsistent)
- Chychrun (injury-prone)
- S. Girard (inconsistent, injury-prone)


100% regrettable:
- Marino
- Drouin
- Dvorak
- Wennberg
- Zaitsev
- C Murphy


Teams seem to be pretty selective about when they hand these out, and they generally seem to get it right. And out of the ones who definitely were busts, their cap hits weren't debilitating.
- Tomahawk

Hell of a list, it would seem more often than not it works out

Major difference in coaching also.
- MJL

Just stop, give Torts the Bruins roster and see what happens! There is nothing about Montgomery that makes him a genius

When Tortorella mentioned the players these days have the attention span of an amoeba, it was yet another example of projection by this franchise to its fans.

The Flyers management has the attention span of an amoeba. No long term plan. No gumption and certainly a lack of testicular fortitude at the senior management level (Dave Scott and Clarke/Holmgren).

It’s funny to see the fans also chasing the nearest shiny object like a cat going after a red little dot on the floor.

Prepare for a middle round pick in 2023 with the mission accomplished banner in the background. Prepare for a playoff spot next season to be trounced by a legit contender. Prepare to repeat this same process the season after that.

By far the two biggest reasons why this team went on a little run was goaltending and the individual play of Konecny. If you want to give Tortorella credit for that, knock yourself out. The Flyers flaws were exposed today. Not just talent and roster wise but also scheme and coaching wise.
- MJL

I think you're oversimplifying it a bit. It's more than goaltending and TK. Tippet is playing the best hockey of his short NHL career and other young players seem to be finding their way. I can't comment on today's game cause I didn't see a second of it (thankfully) cause I was working. You could put Scotty Bowman in his hay day behind this bench and I bet they wouldn't have this many wins. That's all I'm saying. The reality is that Torts was probably the wrong hire if they truly wanted to tank and I'm not debating that part, but I think even you have to admit that he is getting lots of blood from this bludgeoned stone of a roster. Perhaps not.

Just stop, give Torts the Bruins roster and see what happens! There is nothing about Montgomery that makes him a genius
- jd250

Your post is empty. They would be a good team still but they wouldn't be nearly as good. Who said Montgomery is a genius? However he is a far better coach than Tortorella is. It's not close. I'd kill to get a coach of that quality.

I think you're oversimplifying it a bit. It's more than goaltending and TK. Tippet is playing the best hockey of his short NHL career and other young players seem to be finding their way. I can't comment on today's game cause I didn't see a second of it (thankfully) cause I was working. You could put Scotty Bowman in his hay day behind this bench and I bet they wouldn't have this many wins. That's all I'm saying. The reality is that Torts was probably the wrong hire if they truly wanted to tank and I'm not debating that part, but I think even you have to admit that he is getting lots of blood from this bludgeoned stone of a roster. Perhaps not.
- Phillywhiteout

If you took away the quality goaltending and the play of Konecny in that streak, they lose more than half of those games. It's pretty simple. He has them playing a decent team game, but they don't play the right way. Tortorella is being given credit for what he is not responsible for.

If you took away the quality goaltending and the play of Konecny in that streak, they lose more than half of those games. It's pretty simple. He has them playing a decent team game, but they don't play the right way. Tortorella is being given credit for what he is not responsible for.
- MJL

What teams winning doesn’t have to do with key pieces playing well? That’s a serious stretch

What teams winning doesn’t have to do with key pieces playing well? That’s a serious stretch
- ClaudeFather

That doesn't address the point. Tortorella is being given the credit for the nice run they went on. I'm giving credit to the key pieces playing well.

That OEL contract looks bad tho. His last year in AZ was bad and he hasn’t really recovered.
- Minnyhock

The one he's currently on is super bad.

His previous deal ($5.5M x 6) was great value for a legit #1 dman.

3rd-contracts seem to be where most teams get in trouble.

Hell of a list, it would seem more often than not it works out
- ClaudeFather

Just gotta be a bit selective on who gets 'em. Boldy seems like a reasonable bet considering he's already fairly productive.

I don't mind teams being generous with 2nd contracts as long as its paired with equal amount of restraint on veteran/UFA spending... and being willing to let other RFAs who aren't difference makers walk if they start demanding market value.

Like sure, pay Farabee, Provy, TK, Hart and Sanheim coming off their ELCs... but don't turn around and blow more money on Risto and Kevin Hayes. And maybe don't automatically extend a guy like Laughton to market rate -- replace him w/ somebody like Cates.

If you took away the quality goaltending and the play of Konecny in that streak, they lose more than half of those games. It's pretty simple. He has them playing a decent team game, but they don't play the right way. Tortorella is being given credit for what he is not responsible for.
- MJL

I'm a bit confused. You say Torts has them playing a decent team game, but they aren't playing the right way. Not sure what you mean by that cause it seems like you are contradicting yourself a bit. Did you have an unpleasant encounter with Torts at some point? It sure seems like you refuse to give him credit for this team overachieving.

I'm a bit confused. You say Torts has them playing a decent team game, but they aren't playing the right way. Not sure what you mean by that cause it seems like you are contradicting yourself a bit. Did you have an unpleasant encounter with Torts at some point? It sure seems like you refuse to give him credit for this team overachieving.
- Phillywhiteout

There is no contradiction. They're not overachieving. They have some good players. The went on a run winning what 7 of 8? It was because of goaltending and mostly Konecny going off.

Just gotta be a bit selective on who gets 'em. Boldy seems like a reasonable bet considering he's already fairly productive.

I don't mind teams being generous with 2nd contracts as long as its paired with equal amount of restraint on veteran/UFA spending... and being willing to let other RFAs who aren't difference makers walk if they start demanding market value.

Like sure, pay Farabee, Provy, TK, Hart and Sanheim coming off their ELCs... but don't turn around and blow more money on Risto and Kevin Hayes. And maybe don't automatically extend a guy like Laughton to market rate -- replace him w/ somebody like Cates.
- Tomahawk

You can’t be generous with 2nd contract…. That’s what sets you up for problematic 3rd contract. Tk deal was generous for what he had produced. His 3rd deal is gonna be 7/8 year deal taking him into mid 30’s. And the exact place you don’t want to be in. Star player obviously exempted. Your better off signing boldy type deal at dealing with 3rd contract as approaching end of prime.

You can’t be generous with 2nd contract…. That’s what sets you up for problematic 3rd contract. Tk deal was generous for what he had produced. His 3rd deal is gonna be 7/8 year deal taking him into mid 30’s. And the exact place you don’t want to be in. Star player obviously exempted. Your better off signing boldy type deal at dealing with 3rd contract as approaching end of prime.
- SMS4016

You don't have to automatically hand out the big third contract either. Once TK's current deal is up, he'll almost be 29. It's possible to just deal him at that point if he's demanding a retirement contract.

You don't have to automatically hand out the big third contract either. Once TK's current deal is up, he'll almost be 29. It's possible to just deal him at that point if he's demanding a retirement contract.
- Tomahawk

Boldy will be age 29 at the end of his contract, he also has a 10-team no trade in his final two years.

TK’s deal was signed earlier than Boldy’s, obviously; and for the next two years, TK is 1.5M less per without the trade protection at the end.

Not sure how anyone can be pro the Boldy contract but not like TK’s deal.

Your post is empty. They would be a good team still but they wouldn't be nearly as good. Who said Montgomery is a genius? However he is a far better coach than Tortorella is. It's not close. I'd kill to get a coach of that quality.
- MJL

Give me one legitimate reason why Montgomery is a far better coach than Torts. So far all you have done is speak in hyperbole.

Give me one legitimate reason why Montgomery is a far better coach than Torts. So far all you have done is spoke in hyperbole.
- jd250

On the Stick2Hockey podcast yesterday, Myrtetus had Charlie O’Connor on. I thought the insights about Torts were interesting. Especially the one from York’s story. Torts is more adaptable than he is given credit for and has shown that already. Worth the listen.

The Bruins extended Zacha, 4 years, $4.5M per. I think this sets the market for 3rd line center. Apply this to Hayes and clearly if the Flyers cover about $2.6M per, a team would be getting good value for Hayes at 3 years $4.5M per. Its becoming clearer the Flyers can trade Hayes if they want to and not have to incur too much dead cap space. Its the best move the Flyers could make IMO.

Give me one legitimate reason why Montgomery is a far better coach than Torts. So far all you have done is spoke in hyperbole.
- jd250

Those reasons have been already given to you in a previous conversation in detail. I even linked an article for you to read to educate yourself with. Now I've spoken in hyperbole. Compare that to the level of facts that you give to back up your statements.

I'll repeat. Montgomery first of all was smart enough to realize what was working with the Bruins and left that alone. The Bruins have always been a very good defensive team playing under a defensive zone system instituted by Julien and refined by Cassidy. Montgomery recognized that despite having some high end offensive players. Their offensive production was still middle of the pack as a team. Montgomery came in and changed their breakout and neutral zone schemes to add to their transition play. If you recall, back in the 22 playoffs, Sweeney said that their transition game was non-existent. Montgomery added more flow, options and movement to their breakout play. He emphasized controlled entries and regroups if a play with speed was not available. Once the puck is established in the offensive zone. He changed the team from a saturation shot team to a selective shot team. Focused on high percentage shots from high percentage areas. Eliminating shots such as unscreened point shots. He emphasized traffic at the net. Always wanting 2 offensive players on the inside around the net. All of this was on display yesterday.

The Bruins extended Zacha, 4 years, $4.5M per. I think this sets the market for 3rd line center. Apply this to Hayes and clearly if the Flyers cover about $2.6M per, a team would be getting good value for Hayes at 3 years $4.5M per. Its becoming clearer the Flyers can trade Hayes if they want to and not have to incur too much dead cap space. Its the best move the Flyers could make IMO.
- jd250

The Zacha deal has zero bearing on the Flyers ability to trade Hayes.

How does the Zacha signing fit in with your claim that Boston will take Hayes?

On the Stick2Hockey podcast yesterday, Myrtetus had Charlie O’Connor on. I thought the insights about Torts were interesting. Especially the one from York’s story. Torts is more adaptable than he is given credit for and has shown that already. Worth the listen.
- NC Flyers Fan

I never miss it, one of my favorite podcasts. Yes, its nice to hear that Torts is a lot more than a stick in the mud defensive coach. Good insights about Risto also.

The Zacha deal has zero bearing on the Flyers ability to trade Hayes.

How does the Zacha signing fit in with your claim that Boston will take Hayes?
- MJL

Last year for Bergeron and Krejci. The Bruins will need an experienced center. But to answer your astonishing question, obviously the Zacha deal sets the market for a player like Hayes.