I don’t think Hayes gets traded at half the cost due to multiple years on his deal. Also if we retain 3.5 million of his deal, we also pay whatever whoever comes the other way because I’m assuming the other team will wanna drop salary too. We may as well just pay Hayes in full here, rather than nearly pay a lesser player both his and Hayes’ contract.

I hope this makes sense
- SuperSchennBros

Moving Hayes will come down to who has more stroke imo. Torts or the GM.

Still not sold that Torts wants him gone 100%.

No GM will go into thinking buyout but it is a valid point to bring up in a worse case scenario. While they might not bring it up you can be sure they are looking at if they are trading for him. I would argue Hayes is in his O prime, with his style of play, unless injured, Hayes should maintain his play into his early 30's. Keeping in mind a IF you find a team that wants Hayes for a playoff run, they have a NEED they want to fill, that always comes with risk, GM's know this...

Again, I said earlier, finding the partner with the specific need for Hayes is slim
- wcorvette

agree 100%. He will be the same player now and by the end of his contract.

If Hayes is worth 3.5 a year for another team is he not worth that to the Flyers? A team that lacks offence?
- landros 2

I’ll try explaining again because I’m not sure I did that great of a job.

If the Flyers could move Ghost at 4.5 million with term. It’s likely because teams that could use his serves couldn’t move the money around to claim him and mid season is normally bad timing. What I’m saying to bring Hayes in, you’ve gotta shove something out. So if we move Hayes at half and forced to retain another salary, we might be paying a lesser player for half of Hayes’ cost and a lesser player, just meaning we should have just kept Hayes.

A lot of clubs have a network …..but the the article took the time to go through the Flyers entire history and show there way of hiring was next level Nepotism. The big issue with Dave Scott is he is new to this crowd and not having “any” hockey experience he really has used Clarke, Barber and Holmgren as a safety blanket….then again that’s how old man Snider would have wanted it.
- landros 2

2021 – Not their first choice for the role of GM, the Penguins hire Hextall, with the caveat that they also hire a President of Hockey Operations to oversee Hextall. They hire Burke. Shero is hired as a Senior Advisor to the GM of the Minnesota Wild.
2022 – Although he is not Chuck Fletcher’s first choice, the Flyers hire Tortorella as their new coach on the recommendation of senior advisors Clarke, Holmgren, Lombardi and Barber, all of whom have Scott’s ear.

Mac doesn't bother me, I want Brown gone now, guy really adds zero for a team like the Flyers
- wcorvette

I actually like Mac a lot in a fourth line role. I might seem like I love certain players that the majority around here hates, I just think an argument could be made for certain guys. Like I probably criticize Noah Cates quite a bit. Truth is I think he’s exactly what this team needs, I just hate how he’s being used.

Pacioretty went down. Would Canes deal for Hayes? Would Fletch deal within division?

I hold on to Laughton unless the offer is too good to refuse.

Provy's days seem numbered.

Pacioretty went down. Would Canes deal for Hayes? Would Fletch deal within division?

I hold on to Laughton unless the offer is too good to refuse.

Provy's days seem numbered.
- cdearth23

In my opinion, Carolina would not deal for Hayes. I can't see Tulsky giving the thumbs up for that.

Pacioretty went down. Would Canes deal for Hayes? Would Fletch deal within division?

I hold on to Laughton unless the offer is too good to refuse.

Provy's days seem numbered.
- cdearth23

Provorov sweaters sell out. Flyers trade him instantly.

A lot of people posting about Hayes so I didn't want to quote just one person.

Here's what I've seen people discuss.

Hayes at 50% retained has a market. Agreed.
Hayes has a market to a contender. Disagree.

Hayes will be traded and then bought out by the other team while that team pays an asset in mid round pick and the flyers pay nothing. Disagree.

My rationale is, and I said it before, what value does he have as a 2nd line center to a contender? Maybe the avs need one so maybe they would pay assets? If he's to play 3rd line minutes then I don't see why a team would pay upwards of a 3rd round pick since his production, which isn't above 50 points most years, is from first and second line duties?

On the buy out, I don't see why a team would trade for him only to buy him out the next year essentially getting rid of the Flyer's entire problem AND giving up a 3rd round pick while the flyers give up NOTHING of value. Trading Hayes would be to solve a problem for the flyers. That will cost the organization something as we have seen in recent years. I don't think it's that expensive like a first round pick (maaaybe if no cap retention) but I certainly think if he's moved in the off season it will cost them some type of pick swap.

I personally think even at half retained, the market for him is to a team who needs a center and a body to play while they retool/rebuild. Arizona, Islanders perhaps, Chicago. San Jose. Maybe Florida shakes things up a lot. I definitely can see him being dealt in the off season.

A lot of people posting about Hayes so I didn't want to quote just one person.

Here's what I've seen people discuss.

Hayes at 50% retained has a market. Agreed.
Hayes has a market to a contender. Disagree.

Hayes will be traded and then bought out by the other team while that team pays an asset in mid round pick and the flyers pay nothing. Disagree.

My rationale is, and I said it before, what value does he have as a 2nd line center to a contender? Maybe the avs need one so maybe they would pay assets? If he's to play 3rd line minutes then I don't see why a team would pay upwards of a 3rd round pick since his production, which isn't above 50 points most years, is from first and second line duties?

On the buy out, I don't see why a team would trade for him only to buy him out the next year essentially getting rid of the Flyer's entire problem AND giving up a 3rd round pick while the flyers give up NOTHING of value. Trading Hayes would be to solve a problem for the flyers. That will cost the organization something as we have seen in recent years. I don't think it's that expensive like a first round pick (maaaybe if no cap retention) but I certainly think if he's moved in the off season it will cost them some type of pick swap.

I personally think even at half retained, the market for him is to a team who needs a center and a body to play while they retool/rebuild. Arizona, Islanders perhaps, Chicago. San Jose. Maybe Florida shakes things up a lot. I definitely can see him being dealt in the off season.
- Aaron_85

Hayes also has a 12 team NT list that he submits every year. Is it possible that Arizona, San Jose, Chicago is on that list? Maybe he would like the weather in the first two. Then if a team like Arizona or Chicago is involved. They're doing it to get something else in return.

Chuck becomes a buyer. Who does he target?

Chuck becomes a buyer. Who does he target?
- hello it's me 2050

Horvat

Hayes also has a 12 team NT list that he submits every year. Is it possible that Arizona, San Jose, Chicago is on that list? Maybe he would like the weather in the first two. Then if a team like Arizona or Chicago is involved. They're doing it to get something else in return.
- MJL

I can see a player wanting to goto Chicago. The weather isn't great but it's an original 6 with some new management. It can entice some guys. I do know players use those lists to effectively make it almost a 30 team NTC cause like he'd leave Toronto off it because they don't have cap space as an example. Same as Vegas.

A lot of people posting about Hayes so I didn't want to quote just one person.

Here's what I've seen people discuss.

Hayes at 50% retained has a market. Agreed.
Hayes has a market to a contender. Disagree.

Hayes will be traded and then bought out by the other team while that team pays an asset in mid round pick and the flyers pay nothing. Disagree.

My rationale is, and I said it before, what value does he have as a 2nd line center to a contender? Maybe the avs need one so maybe they would pay assets? If he's to play 3rd line minutes then I don't see why a team would pay upwards of a 3rd round pick since his production, which isn't above 50 points most years, is from first and second line duties?

On the buy out, I don't see why a team would trade for him only to buy him out the next year essentially getting rid of the Flyer's entire problem AND giving up a 3rd round pick while the flyers give up NOTHING of value. Trading Hayes would be to solve a problem for the flyers. That will cost the organization something as we have seen in recent years. I don't think it's that expensive like a first round pick (maaaybe if no cap retention) but I certainly think if he's moved in the off season it will cost them some type of pick swap.

I personally think even at half retained, the market for him is to a team who needs a center and a body to play while they retool/rebuild. Arizona, Islanders perhaps, Chicago. San Jose. Maybe Florida shakes things up a lot. I definitely can see him being dealt in the off season.
- Aaron_85

maybe you are asking the wrong question.

I can see a player wanting to goto Chicago. The weather isn't great but it's an original 6 with some new management. It can entice some guys. I do know players use those lists to effectively make it almost a 30 team NTC cause like he'd leave Toronto off it because they don't have cap space as an example. Same as Vegas.
- Aaron_85

Hayes at 31 or whatever is going to want to go to a team that's going to be losing for quite a while? Interesting point about using the cap to pick teams.

Hayes at 31 or whatever is going to want to go to a team that's going to be losing for quite a while? Interesting point about using the cap to pick teams.
- MJL

Lots of moving parts for sure.

In order to trade Hayes you would need
a)A trade partner that wants him
b)that partner to have the cap space to fit him now and for the rest of his contract (even at 50% that limits the list)
c) A team that is not on his NTL
d) a team that fits all the above criteria that has something the Flyers want. IE a pick or prospect that also fits inside the cap if that applies.

It's a LOT of hoops to jump through for a guy with limited value.

Hayes at 31 or whatever is going to want to go to a team that's going to be losing for quite a while? Interesting point about using the cap to pick teams.
- MJL

It's likely not the top of his list of teams he'd like to go but don't underestimate a players want to be out of a situation and just go be somewhere. That's a question mark we don't know the answers. If Hayes feels he is unwanted in Philly then he may be more willing to just go anywhere to get out and maybe a team like Chicago (as an example) does right by him and trades him to a contender in a couple years as a rental. If he cares about winning. He could have Gaudreau-itis.

Also, the manipulation of 8 - 12 team no trade clauses likely extends beyond just cap implication but it's why players accept them. Teams don't have to give full no move clauses anymore giving them a slight out while the player feels some security. I'm sure there's other info they use to construct a list, like if they know a GM isn't going to do business in division, or the fact Seattle has their young centers drafted, they likely wouldn't make the trade for Hayes so no point in using up a slot.

Lots of moving parts for sure.

In order to trade Hayes you would need
a)A trade partner that wants him
b)that partner to have the cap space to fit him now and for the rest of his contract (even at 50% that limits the list)
c) A team that is not on his NTL
d) a team that fits all the above criteria that has something the Flyers want. IE a pick or prospect that also fits inside the cap if that applies.

It's a LOT of hoops to jump through for a guy with limited value.
- MBFlyerfan

Part B could be made easier with a 3rd team to retain additional salary. Unlikely but possible.

Lots of moving parts for sure.

In order to trade Hayes you would need
a)A trade partner that wants him
b)that partner to have the cap space to fit him now and for the rest of his contract (even at 50% that limits the list)
c) A team that is not on his NTL
d) a team that fits all the above criteria that has something the Flyers want. IE a pick or prospect that also fits inside the cap if that applies.

It's a LOT of hoops to jump through for a guy with limited value.
- MBFlyerfan

If the flyers are just looking to "dump" him then the return really wont matter.

Flyers could also take a back a "bad" short term contract or trade for similar type Hayes "situation". I myself do not think it is that complicated to move him.

As said before I am not 100% convinced the Flyers want to dump him at this time.

Lots of moving parts for sure.

In order to trade Hayes you would need
a)A trade partner that wants him
b)that partner to have the cap space to fit him now and for the rest of his contract (even at 50% that limits the list)
c) A team that is not on his NTL
d) a team that fits all the above criteria that has something the Flyers want. IE a pick or prospect that also fits inside the cap if that applies.

It's a LOT of hoops to jump through for a guy with limited value.
- MBFlyerfan

There is also
e) Flyers being willing to give up a quality asset for a team to take him. Or take bad contract back in a swap.

How would the Flyers replace the production of Hayes in the lineup? The stretch run for the playoffs is coming up here.

Part B could be made easier with a 3rd team to retain additional salary. Unlikely but possible.
- Aaron_85

Yes, but that requires that team to be paid with an asset. Lot of talk being thrown around about there being a market for Hayes. I don't think it's ever impossible to trade any player but what is a market? Is it one team that makes a deal for him? Or is it widespread interest?

https://www.crossingbroad.com/2023/01/flyers-stuck-in-purgatory-because-of-decades-relying-on-king-making-network.html


Flyers Stuck in Purgatory Because of Decades Relying on King-Making “Network”


even more so, read the entire article
- THE BLACK HAND

I think most of us have kind of knew this in the back of our minds, but to see it spelled out in such a manner truly is telling.

I mean this is the way such cushy industries are run (music, movies, sports, publishing, etc...), so it really should be expected. As fans of the team though, we tend to take these things very personally because we feel such a connection to the team and for many of us, it really has shaped us growing up.

In my opinion, Carolina would not deal for Hayes. I can't see Tulsky giving the thumbs up for that.
- MJL

Man, I wish we had smart people like him in the Flyers' front office

Chuck becomes a buyer. Who does he target?
- hello it's me 2050

Dumba