I don't think piling more on a rookie and a replacement level player is really gonna make much of a difference here.
- Tomahawk

Why not? We through Provorov right into the fire as a rookie. He’s thrived on the minutes early. Some want to trade Provorov in favor of York and Sanheim.

Regarding Frost, its funny how you apparently have completed your assessment of Frost while Torts, his staff and the entire front office has not. But going by your opinion, what is Morgan Frost? Is he a legitimate top 6 forward of a good NHL team? Mind you Frost has 24 points in 48 games this year, and 8 of those points came against Arizona. Scoring 0.5 pts/game unfortunately does not make Frost a top 6 forward on a good team in the NHL, sorry to inform you. Frost may be a 3rd line forward in this league, which makes him at least in the top 9. OK, maybe he ends up there. But I ask you, if that is all he is, was it worth trading Brayden Schenn, who was and is a legitimate top 6 forward on a good team? I think not.


- jd250

You've made a really poor assumption here stating that I've completed my assessment of Frost. How do you know what Torts, his staff and the entire front office has done? Do you sit in on the meetings? Another assumption.
The irony here is that after saying all of that, you then go on to making a final assumption on Frost yourself and asking questions which at this time can't be answered due to Frost not being a finished product and what he will ultimately be in the NHL, still an unknown.

Right now Morgan Frost is a fast but smallish forward who is below average in faceoffs, frequently gets bumps off the puck, has had a history of lazy play away from the puck, and scores points at the rate of a 3rd line player. But hey, at least he is playing in the NHL! Well, at least for now.
- jd250

Development of a young player is a process. Many young centers struggle with faceoffs at first. Frost does not frequently get bumped off of the puck. For his size, he is very competitive on the puck. He doesn't have a history of lazy play away from the puck. Those are inventions of yours.

Here is the bottom line. I repeatedly stated that Frost needs to play with better offensive players in better offensive situations to produce. That it wasn't going to happen with grinders. Now we see that coming true. Meanwhile, you argued against that with me repeatedly and that Frost was an AHL player. We see how that has turned out. The same way every other debate you and I have had. Literally every single one. With the facts ultimately proving you to be incorrect.

This story also demonstrates how Torts has changed as a coach over the years. Torts has realized he had to change in order to still be a viable NHL coach, and for that Torts deserves a lot of credit.
- jd250

Tortorella actually failed here due to not communicating with the player until afterwards.

Claude Giroux, still a really good hockey player, sucks Ottawa is terrible
- ClaudeFather

understand the business. But i wanted him to be with the team for his career.....so rare these days.

King was wanted in Canada and arrested when he crossed the border. That's why he was replaced in the Moondogs.

Loved the Valiant. Johnny was hilarious.
- bmeltzer

Valliant's ahead of their time. Ever see Johnny's stand up comedy act?

Haha I have to go with Spot, as I remember him the most, plus he died in the ring.
- Don Nachbaur

yes he did with jerry the king as his opponent.

Seems like bad teams follow Giroux around, even in Florida.
- jd250

captain comfortable

I never knew until recently that the Valiant Brothers were actually not brothers at all
- jd250

thats funny

Tortorella actually failed here due to not communicating with the player until afterwards.
- MJL

Do you know this as a fact?

Regarding Frost, its funny how you apparently have completed your assessment of Frost while Torts, his staff and the entire front office has not. But going by your opinion, what is Morgan Frost? Is he a legitimate top 6 forward of a good NHL team? Mind you Frost has 24 points in 48 games this year, and 8 of those points came against Arizona. Scoring 0.5 pts/game unfortunately does not make Frost a top 6 forward on a good team in the NHL, sorry to inform you. Frost may be a 3rd line forward in this league, which makes him at least in the top 9. OK, maybe he ends up there. But I ask you, if that is all he is, was it worth trading Brayden Schenn, who was and is a legitimate top 6 forward on a good team? I think not.

Right now Morgan Frost is a fast but smallish forward who is below average in faceoffs, frequently gets bumps off the puck, has had a history of lazy play away from the puck, and scores points at the rate of a 3rd line player. But hey, at least he is playing in the NHL! Well, at least for now.
- jd250

as far as frost what I wanted to see was him play in all the games and be healthy. So far that has been accomplished. We shall see what he ends up being in terms of top6 or middle 6 center. The points will (should) come in time if he is as good as many think. Good thing is flyers have nothing but time.

Though is Torts sours in him he will be gone.

Also MJL said he expected 60 points from Frost this year.

Do you know this as a fact?
- hello it's me 2050

Yes, we actually do. Torts said many times at the beginning that he was "watching from above" just trying to get a read on who was who. This whole drama has been well documented. There was a disconnect between what York thought he needed to do and what Torts wanted him to do. That is clear.

Torts made up his mind on York very early.

as far as frost what I wanted to see was him play in all the games and be healthy. So far that has been accomplished. We shall see what he ends up being in terms of top6 or middle 6 center. The points will (should) come in time if he is as good as many think. Good thing is flyers have nothing but time.

Though is Torts sours in him he will be gone.

Also MJL said he expected 60 points from Frost this year.
- hello it's me 2050

wut?

Why not? We through Provorov right into the fire as a rookie. He’s thrived on the minutes early. Some want to trade Provorov in favor of York and Sanheim.
- SuperSchennBros

York is 5'11 175 and totally inexperienced... and you want him taking prime defensive responsibilities?

Provy was at least physically ready for the task coming out of the draft. And I think most people have realized by now that throwing him in the deep end as an 18-yo was detrimental to his development.

Yes, we actually do. Torts said many times at the beginning that he was "watching from above" just trying to get a read on who was who. This whole drama has been well documented. There was a disconnect between what York thought he needed to do and what Torts wanted him to do. That is clear.

Torts made up his mind on York very early.
- MBFlyerfan

yes he did. How do you know he didn't talk to him at all?

Yes, we actually do. Torts said many times at the beginning that he was "watching from above" just trying to get a read on who was who. This whole drama has been well documented. There was a disconnect between what York thought he needed to do and what Torts wanted him to do. That is clear.

Torts made up his mind on York very early.
- MBFlyerfan

Tortorella talked all summer about how he believes in communication with players. Letting them know what to expect and what he is looking for with players. Apparently, if all that is true, that did not happen with York. It also reinforces my belief that sending him down was a mistake. That could've been easily rectified at the NHL level.

wut?
- MBFlyerfan

Honestly, don't waste your time.

Honestly, don't waste your time.
- MJL

yes you most certainly did. the conversation was him around getting 40 points. You said you expect more. 60 points.

Tortorella talked all summer about how he believes in communication with players. Letting them know what to expect and what he is looking for with players. Apparently, if all that is true, that did not happen with York. It also reinforces my belief that sending him down was a mistake. That could've been easily rectified at the NHL level.
- MJL

glad to see it reinforces your belief cliff. Any players you would want the flyers to target at this upcoming deadline?

Tortorella talked all summer about how he believes in communication with players. Letting them know what to expect and what he is looking for with players. Apparently, if all that is true, that did not happen with York. It also reinforces my belief that sending him down was a mistake. That could've been easily rectified at the NHL level.
- MJL

Are we still on this train? How do you know that it could have been rectified at the NHL level? It appears that sending York down was the right move based on how he has responded since being brought back up to the NHL level. You have no idea how things would have turned out if he would have stayed with the parent team cause it didn't happen that way. Thanks!

Are we still on this train? How do you know that it could have been rectified at the NHL level? It appears that sending York down was the right move based on how he has responded since being brought back up to the NHL level. You have no idea how things would have turned out if he would have stayed with the parent team cause it didn't happen that way. Thanks!
- Phillywhiteout

LMAo...it's a one person train.

My only response in bold is, Ristolainen is not bad right now and it’s the only argument I need. Running and hiding behind old data from a team that was clearly misusing him is nonsense.

As for the minutes, I’ve said clearly, give York more of a push seeing tougher situations. Penalty kill and closing out one goal leads. Also there is no reason why Seeler cannot kill penalties more regularly. Those minutes can easily be taken away from DeAngelo.

I can’t make this more clear, I feel like I’m repeating myself.
- SuperSchennBros

I couldn't agree with you more. My contention all along is Risto has never been given the proper coaching to develop as a player. We all know what Buffalo is as a franchise. How many GMs and coaches did they have since Risto has been drafted? How many of those coaches were actually any good? Buffalo clearly has fallen down even worse than the Flyers when it comes to player development. When Risto came to the Flyers it was a fresh start. But what happened, just a month into the season AV is fired and only an assistant coach is retained to coach the team the rest of the year. This is really the first year in Risto's entire career that he has actually had a legitimate and proven coaching staff, and it started out rocky for Risto. We was benched and told he needed to play differently if he wanted to play here, and to his credit Risto has taken the coaching and revamped his game. He is still a work in progress but so far he has played miles better defensively than probably at any time in his career and his offense is coming back.

With all this said, I was against resigning Risto at the deadline last year and his contract is quite frankly ridiculous and a fireable offense. Risto IMO will never live up to his contract, but I think he can be a solid 4th defenseman that can give you 25-30 points a season. If he can do that, I can live with the contract.

The problem I have with a few of you is you all just refuse to give the player any credit at all, and refuse to objectively see that he has improved.

Are we still on this train? How do you know that it could have been rectified at the NHL level? It appears that sending York down was the right move based on how he has responded since being brought back up to the NHL level. You have no idea how things would have turned out if he would have stayed with the parent team cause it didn't happen that way. Thanks!
- Phillywhiteout

Simple common sense.

The problem I have with a few of you is you all just refuse to give the player any credit at all, and refuse to objectively see that he has improved.
- jd250

How can anyone see that the player has objectively improved when he has been given a reduced role and went from a 20+ minute player to a 3rd pair 17 minute player. The only area of his play that he was decent at in the past, was putting up solid point totals. His offense has fallen off of a cliff. He has 6 points in 40 + games. He deserves credit for a couple of really nice plays he has made recently but a player is judged on the whole. Not on a few plays.

Coaching.

I couldn't agree with you more. My contention all along is Risto has never been given the proper coaching to develop as a player. We all know what Buffalo is as a franchise. How many GMs and coaches did they have since Risto has been drafted? How many of those coaches were actually any good? Buffalo clearly has fallen down even worse than the Flyers when it comes to player development. When Risto came to the Flyers it was a fresh start. But what happened, just a month into the season AV is fired and only an assistant coach is retained to coach the team the rest of the year. This is really the first year in Risto's entire career that he has actually had a legitimate and proven coaching staff, and it started out rocky for Risto. We was benched and told he needed to play differently if he wanted to play here, and to his credit Risto has taken the coaching and revamped his game. He is still a work in progress but so far he has played miles better defensively than probably at any time in his career and his offense is coming back.

With all this said, I was against resigning Risto at the deadline last year and his contract is quite frankly ridiculous and a fireable offense. Risto IMO will never live up to his contract, but I think he be a solid 4th defenseman that can give you 25-30 points a season. If he can do that, I can live with the contract.

The problem I have with a few of you is you all just refuse to give the player any credit at all, and refuse to objectively see that he has improved.
- jd250

That's the disconnect between you and many others. I believe he is nothing more than a bottom pairing guy.

Jack eichel had the same coaching. Didnt effect him as much.

yes you most certainly did. the conversation was him around getting 40 points. You said you expect more. 60 points.
- hello it's me 2050

Got to be honest here. That does not sound very MJL like. I really doubt he said he expected 60 points out of Frost this season.