next season, if Ellis is done, Coots and Cam back, SanHeim raise, JVR out, Flyers have about 10 mil in cap? assuming an 83.5 cap?


If so, I hate to say it but CF will move someone. I could see Provy going, I could see them trying to move Farabee. Maybe if he bounces back I could see them moving Cam at the TDL.


Their cap situation doesn't seem that bad going forward, more concerned with what they will do with the space. They really could make some good moves for the cap by the end of next season, and be in pretty good shape. They would also only have 2 years left of Hayes, Cam 1, with Provy and TK only having 1 year left. Add the rumor that the Cap should go up 4 mil at the end of next season.

Just spit balling, tell me what I missed.

PS- I know Coots
- wcorvette

When you have have really bad contracts such as Ristolainen, Atkinson, and Ellis and you're not a contending team. The cap situation is pretty bad. If Couturier can't return to form, that's another.

next season, if Ellis is done, Coots and Cam back, SanHeim raise, JVR out, Flyers have about 10 mil in cap? assuming an 83.5 cap?


If so, I hate to say it but CF will move someone. I could see Provy going, I could see them trying to move Farabee. Maybe if he bounces back I could see them moving Cam at the TDL.


Their cap situation doesn't seem that bad going forward, more concerned with what they will do with the space. They really could make some good moves for the cap by the end of next season, and be in pretty good shape. They would also only have 2 years left of Hayes, Cam 1, with Provy and TK only having 1 year left. Add the rumor that the Cap should go up 4 mil at the end of next season.

Just spit balling, tell me what I missed.

PS- I know Coots
- wcorvette

Atkinson will be turning 34 before next season and he's coming off neck surgery. And if Coots ever comes back, he may never be the same.

So who replaces Provy and/or Hayes if you trade them?

Also, Cates is arbitration eligible. Torts is playing him near 20 mins a game on the 1st-line. Kid can leverage that for a significant pay bump.

And how much do Frost and York get? Flyers could force them into an affordable bridge... but that could come back to bite them on the 3rd-contract. It might be smarter to lock them in for more years now, rather than later.

And they gotta start thinking about budgeting money for Hart and TK's inevitable extensions.

I don't see how the cap picture really improves in the foreseeable future unless there's a major influx of viable talent on ELCs. That puts incredible pressure to fast-track Brink, Cutter, etc, which increases the likelihood of (frank)ing up their development.

Call me a pessimist tho.

Atkinson will be turning 34 before next season and he's coming off neck surgery. And if Coots ever comes back, he may never be the same.

So who replaces Provy and/or Hayes if you trade them?

Also, Cates is arbitration eligible. Torts is playing him near 20 mins a game on the 1st-line. Kid can leverage that for a significant pay bump.

And how much do Frost and York get? Flyers could force them into an affordable bridge... but that could come back to bite them on the 3rd-contract. It might be smarter to lock them in for more years now, rather than later.

And they gotta start thinking about budgeting money for Hart and TK's inevitable extensions.

I don't see how the cap picture really improves in the foreseeable future unless there's a major influx of viable talent on ELCs. That puts incredible pressure to fast-track Brink, Cutter, etc, which increases the likelihood of (frank)ing up their development.

Call me a pessimist tho.
- Tomahawk

does it matter look where they are with them in the lineup.

Bottom line is there really is little hope on the current and what looks like future path.

Add Tippet as well for an overpayment!!!

Atkinson will be turning 34 before next season and he's coming off neck surgery. And if Coots ever comes back, he may never be the same.

So who replaces Provy and/or Hayes if you trade them?

Also, Cates is arbitration eligible. Torts is playing him near 20 mins a game on the 1st-line. Kid can leverage that for a significant pay bump.

And how much do Frost and York get? Flyers could force them into an affordable bridge... but that could come back to bite them on the 3rd-contract. It might be smarter to lock them in for more years now, rather than later.

And they gotta start thinking about budgeting money for Hart and TK's inevitable extensions.

I don't see how the cap picture really improves in the foreseeable future unless there's a major influx of viable talent on ELCs. That puts incredible pressure to fast-track Brink, Cutter, etc, which increases the likelihood of (frank)ing up their development.

Call me a pessimist tho.
- Tomahawk

They are locked into this roster thru at least 23-24 season. Probably 24-25. No one is taking Hayes, Risto or Atkinson this year or next. Ellis could get moved to a team that needs LTIR space. Honestly, I think he has a better chance of being moved compared to the other three.

Atkinson will be turning 34 before next season and he's coming off neck surgery. And if Coots ever comes back, he may never be the same.

So who replaces Provy and/or Hayes if you trade them?

Also, Cates is arbitration eligible. Torts is playing him near 20 mins a game on the 1st-line. Kid can leverage that for a significant pay bump.

And how much do Frost and York get? Flyers could force them into an affordable bridge... but that could come back to bite them on the 3rd-contract. It might be smarter to lock them in for more years now, rather than later.

And they gotta start thinking about budgeting money for Hart and TK's inevitable extensions.

I don't see how the cap picture really improves in the foreseeable future unless there's a major influx of viable talent on ELCs. That puts incredible pressure to fast-track Brink, Cutter, etc, which increases the likelihood of (frank)ing up their development.

Call me a pessimist tho.
- Tomahawk

I'd say a realist. That's a big part of why I laugh when I read that this can all be turned around in a couple of years.

They are locked into this roster thru at least 23-24 season. Probably 24-25. No one is taking Hayes, Risto or Atkinson this year or next. Ellis could get moved to a team that needs LTIR space. Honestly, I think he has a better chance of being moved compared to the other three.
- mickel25

I think with the amount of term that Ellis still has left. That might have to wait a year or two for that. That trade still irks me to this day. The stupidity of it. Why would a GM sign a defenseman to an 8 year deal, and then 2 years in, trade him on the cheap? Do you think something is up? Any clue? I questioned it the day it was made.

I think with the amount of term that Ellis still has left. That might have to wait a year or two for that. That trade still irks me to this day. The stupidity of it. Why would a GM sign a defenseman to an 8 year deal, and then 2 years in, trade him on the cheap? Do you think something is up? Any clue? I questioned it the day it was made.
- MJL

Was Ellis healthy during that playoff run right before he was traded?

The correct answer is:
Trade TdA
- BiggE

For extra pucks, tape, jock straps... heck, even loyalty punch cards for food joints, if that's what it takes.

I think with the amount of term that Ellis still has left. That might have to wait a year or two for that. That trade still irks me to this day. The stupidity of it. Why would a GM sign a defenseman to an 8 year deal, and then 2 years in, trade him on the cheap? Do you think something is up? Any clue? I questioned it the day it was made.
- MJL

Fletcher just saw stars in his eyes.

It's like the Ristolainen trade too, when there is a bidding war and you're told no one is offering higher than a late round first for the guy, hey maybe don't offer your high first rounder (and second rounder and roster player). Maybe you sit this one out.

Or when Deslauriers is apparently in a bidding war and takes your 4-year modified NTC deal, maybe don't get into a bidding war for a 4th liner. Maybe sit this one out too.

This is how you end up with a poorly constructed roster with no cap flexibility. But hey, they're 'harder to play against'. Wasn't it Clarke who joined the booth last year and said 'wait til you see this guy in the playoffs' about Risto? He may never play a playoff game in his career.

Since Sanheim is primarily an offensive type defender and not very physical but with decent wheels, isn’t this just not utilizing him properly? Isn’t it somewhat of a waste? We have TDA who NEEDS a Slavin-type of player to pair with. That’s a problem when we don’t have that type of player. Will Fletcher continue to double down on this middling roster he constructed or will he ever recognize that he has made monumental mistakes and correct them? So lemme get the straight:

CF overpaid (14th overall pick) and now a massive multi-year co tract for a 3rd pairing RHD in Risto?

CF didn’t know or understand his own roster when acquiring TDA in that he miscalculated that he had a complimentary LHD for Tony?

He handed out Sanheim a significant contract in term and cap $ for a guy who is supposed to be more of a fluid 2-way LHD, who has been relegated to more of a stay-at home LHD who is not very physical?

Not to mention there are the bewildering injuries and lack of information on Ellis, Cam, and Coots (all who have significant cap hits)?

Apparently knowing all of this (and if he didn’t then shame on him) he hires a coach who will and has gotten blood from a stone, placing the Flyers not bad enough for a top pick but not good enough for the playoffs?

So why does this fool have a job running the Flyers now? Hubris is a killer. Good GMs will recognize mistakes and correct them. This guy just doubles down, seems to not be a particular good three-dimensional thinker, and, quite frankly, doesn’t always tell the truth to the fans. This is a huge problem. This is why many of us have not purchased tickets, jerseys, or even hats this year. It’s a killer that this kind of professional approach is still permitted to go on. Pathetic, disheartening and unfortunately seemingly enduring.

Thank you everybody for letting me vent. Please don’t charge me for this therapy session.
- mikeyo27

👏

if this was reddit you'd be raking in the karma points... if you care about such nonsense.

Atkinson will be turning 34 before next season and he's coming off neck surgery. And if Coots ever comes back, he may never be the same.

So who replaces Provy and/or Hayes if you trade them?

Also, Cates is arbitration eligible. Torts is playing him near 20 mins a game on the 1st-line. Kid can leverage that for a significant pay bump.

And how much do Frost and York get? Flyers could force them into an affordable bridge... but that could come back to bite them on the 3rd-contract. It might be smarter to lock them in for more years now, rather than later.

And they gotta start thinking about budgeting money for Hart and TK's inevitable extensions.

I don't see how the cap picture really improves in the foreseeable future unless there's a major influx of viable talent on ELCs. That puts incredible pressure to fast-track Brink, Cutter, etc, which increases the likelihood of (frank)ing up their development.




Call me a pessimist tho.
- Tomahawk

pessimist

So about 10 before raises is correct? I do see a way to thread the needle and move out players to gain control of the cap, why I mentioned Farabee and Provy, get picks and prospects, if you truly want to rebuild.

Even if they don't trade Provy, I don't see them re-signing him, unless it was a fit for what he brings. In that scenario, I see Provy wanting to test the market and get paid. Point is, at next years TDL, then into the summer, their options pick up. Will CF be able to do it, no proof he can but there is a way.

For the first year in many, they have healthy depth, young depth, this does not need to be a tear down, just a smart build.

I think CF is more Vegas than Lightning

pessimist

So about 10 before raises is correct? I do see a way to thread the needle and move out players to gain control of the cap, why I mentioned Farabee and Provy, get picks and prospects, if you truly want to rebuild.

Even if they don't trade Provy, I don't see them re-signing him, unless it was a fit for what he brings. In that scenario, I see Provy wanting to test the market and get paid. Point is, at next years TDL, then into the summer, their options pick up. Will CF be able to do it, no proof he can but there is a way.

For the first year in many, they have healthy depth, young depth, this does not need to be a tear down, just a smart build.

I think CF is more Vegas than Lightning
- wcorvette

they have depth that pretty much every other NHL team has, it is not impressive.

Atkinson will be turning 34 before next season and he's coming off neck surgery. And if Coots ever comes back, he may never be the same.

So who replaces Provy and/or Hayes if you trade them?

Also, Cates is arbitration eligible. Torts is playing him near 20 mins a game on the 1st-line. Kid can leverage that for a significant pay bump.

And how much do Frost and York get? Flyers could force them into an affordable bridge... but that could come back to bite them on the 3rd-contract. It might be smarter to lock them in for more years now, rather than later.

And they gotta start thinking about budgeting money for Hart and TK's inevitable extensions.

I don't see how the cap picture really improves in the foreseeable future unless there's a major influx of viable talent on ELCs. That puts incredible pressure to fast-track Brink, Cutter, etc, which increases the likelihood of (frank)ing up their development.

Call me a pessimist tho.
- Tomahawk

I'd honestly forgotten about Atkinson this year. Pretty crazy both him and Voracek might've suffered career ending injuries.

Regarding Cates, I could see him getting $2.5-3 mil over 4 or 5 years. Torts loves him and obviously Chuck loves his Minnesota boys. Can't wait until he drafts Charlie Stramel at number 12 this year.

Fletcher just saw stars in his eyes.

It's like the Ristolainen trade too, when there is a bidding war and you're told no one is offering higher than a late round first for the guy, hey maybe don't offer your high first rounder (and second rounder and roster player). Maybe you sit this one out.

Or when Deslauriers is apparently in a bidding war and takes your 4-year modified NTC deal, maybe don't get into a bidding war for a 4th liner. Maybe sit this one out too.

This is how you end up with a poorly constructed roster with no cap flexibility. But hey, they're 'harder to play against'. Wasn't it Clarke who joined the booth last year and said 'wait til you see this guy in the playoffs' about Risto? He may never play a playoff game in his career.
- TobyFlenderson

I'd love to know who the teams were that they were bidding against. Do you think it was Colorado, Carolina, TB, Vegas etc? How about we start emulating what those teams do and stop winning the bidding wars for crap!

pessimist

So about 10 before raises is correct? I do see a way to thread the needle and move out players to gain control of the cap, why I mentioned Farabee and Provy, get picks and prospects, if you truly want to rebuild.

Even if they don't trade Provy, I don't see them re-signing him, unless it was a fit for what he brings. In that scenario, I see Provy wanting to test the market and get paid. Point is, at next years TDL, then into the summer, their options pick up. Will CF be able to do it, no proof he can but there is a way.

For the first year in many, they have healthy depth, young depth, this does not need to be a tear down, just a smart build.

I think CF is more Vegas than Lightning
- wcorvette

How can Fletch ever rebuild under the "bias for action" and "blank check" mandates?

Also a Homer-esque Richie/Carts soft reset seems out of the question. Chuck simply doesn't have the job security to pull something like that off and there's no savor-in-waiting like Claude to hitch the wagon to.

How can Fletch ever rebuild under the "bias for action" and "blank check" mandates?

Also a Homer-esque Richie/Carts soft reset seems out of the question. Chuck simply doesn't have the job security to pull something like that off and there's no savor-in-waiting like Claude to hitch the wagon to.
- Tomahawk

He doesn't? There is zero indication his job is in jeopardy. At least that I can tell.

No other organization would have let him last this long. Unless it was a flat out money issue. Imagine paying over 9 million in head coaches and having these results!!

What would LA give up for Hart? their goaltending has been brutal.

He doesn't? There is zero indication his job is in jeopardy. At least that I can tell.

No other organization would have let him last this long. Unless it was a flat out money issue. Imagine paying over 9 million in head coaches and having these results!!
- hello it's me 2050

Chuckles did not hire Torts though. The Consultants did.

What would LA give up for Hart? their goaltending has been brutal.
- hello it's me 2050

This years 1st, Villardi and another pick to start negotiations.

This years 1st, Villardi and another pick to start negotiations.
- MBFlyerfan

That is the type of trades the Flyers need and the kind I do not trust CF to manage.

Chuckles did not hire Torts though. The Consultants did.
- mickel25

chuck wields more power than anyone n recent history. President/GM/ governor or whatever that title is

This years 1st, Villardi and another pick to start negotiations.
- MBFlyerfan

be worth exploring as LA needs an upgrade badly if they want to compete.

How can Fletch ever rebuild under the "bias for action" and "blank check" mandates?

Also a Homer-esque Richie/Carts soft reset seems out of the question. Chuck simply doesn't have the job security to pull something like that off and there's no savor-in-waiting like Claude to hitch the wagon to.
- Tomahawk

you could at least say thank you...

yeah, even if he could go the tear down route, they are going miss the Bedard draft, will the brass go for 3 years of trying to draft top 5, hoping that there will be a couple of homeruns, win the lottery, don't see that patience.

To be honest, it is not like the other 30 teams are not drafting and getting better. I am where I was, get the highest pick you can this year and next, make a hockey trade that addresses need. Sell any redundant pieces for picks. Finding a way to have 2 1st, 2 2nd and 2 3rd in 2023, 2024 and 2025 would be a dream

chuck wields more power than anyone n recent history. President/GM/ governor or whatever that title is
- hello it's me 2050

Holmgren had the same titles didn't he?

Holmgren had the same titles didn't he?
- mickel25

not at the same time i do not believe.