Sportsnet Stats
@SNstats
·
23h
Canucks under Rick Tocchet rank last in the NHL in:

Goals Against / Game (4.66)
Penalty Kill (64.3%)
Save Percentage (.826)

...................................................................

Rick There It Is
- VANTEL

Excellent

Travis Green 2.0

OEL's level of play has just dropped off the map this year. 2nd most (63) this season in 5v5 goals against. Only Erik Karlsson(80) is worse by quite a bit but he has at least cancelled that out by scoring at an insane rate.

For reference OEL was only on the ice for 54 goals against in 79 games last season.
- manvanfan

Why you need to keep in in the lineup the rest of the season.

Cam Charron: When Vancouver Canucks management talks about not wanting to rebuild, the reason why is that most rebuilds never succeed.

When Vancouver Canucks management talks about not wanting to rebuild, the reason why is that most rebuilds never succeed. Teams that lose games purposefully may wind up with a nice player or two, but it takes more than that to turn a team from a bottom feeder to a playoff team to a contender. It takes ambition and vision, and a team looking to rebuild simply can’t do it without charting out a multi-year plan to improve.

What Vancouver Canucks management wants less than anything is to become like the Ottawa Senators, a team doing its hardest to recruit Ryan Reynolds as a minority owner, for Reynolds to become the most-famous hockey-adjacent graduate of Kitsilano Secondary (the current top spot is held by Joshua Jackson, who played Charlie Conway in the Mighty Ducks movies). The Senators played through the entry-level contract years of Thomas Chabot, Brady Tkachuk, Drake Batherson, and Joshua Norris without even sniffing the playoffs. They are in a real deep hole to prevent this from happening again with Tim Stutzle and Shane Pinto.

The Sens haven’t come close to the playoffs in years, not since Chris Kunitz ended their season in overtime of Game 7 of the 2017 Eastern Conference Finals, the year that Erik Karlsson made a case to be awarded the Conn Smythe despite not seeing the fourth round of the playoffs. Since then, the Sens have finished in the bottom two of the division in each subsequent season, with no change to management or coaching. The organizational philosophy was to collect players and hope they succeed. They have not drafted well, nor have they developed well.

A good forward core gives a hockey team a sturdy floor, but to have a high ceiling, a team needs a strong defensive group that can move the puck well. The Senators do not have this. Their plan in the offseason was to hope that Jake Sanderson could step in to an NHL top four role and, while their prayer may have been answered (Sanderson looked excellent Tuesday night), it simply isn’t enough. They should never have taken Nikita Zaitsev’s contract off Toronto’s hands. They should have developed Erik Brannstrom’s raw skills better. They should have never taken Travis Hamonic’s contract off Vancouver’s hands. A series of questionable moves around the defence have really limited this team’s ceiling, and now they have dropped 6 consecutive games when they cannot afford to drop games and fall out of the playoff race this early.

But not all rebuilds must be like this. A key thing organizations must do to turn the corner is to identify their stars and pay them, and then go about finding and developing players whose productive years will overlap with your stars’ primes. Financial flexibility must be wielded, not on overpaying brand name players like Claude Giroux, but seeking out undervalued commodities like John Marino or Oliver Bjorkstrand whose teams cannot pay them.

The Canucks are going to rebuild. First, they need to admit to themselves that they will. But if done properly, with the proper infrastructure in place to draft and develop correctly, a team can be turned around in two years rather than five or six.
And it’s important for the Canucks to rebuild, because this current roster, structured or not, needed a lot of good fortune to defeat this Senators team that has been bleeding points. This roster isn’t good enough as is.
- manvanfan

Cam Charron

The team isn't going to get better for another 2 years at least. Why buy him out now? It's not like he's standing in any prospect's way... and what are they going to do with the cap space, pay too much to bring someone in in free agency? I highly doubt they'd go full rebuild weaponize cap space route with FA writing the checks.

Play him the next couple seasons, hope he has a miraculous rebound, or just hope he can get back to being OK. When they're ready to actually compete, then look at a buy out.
- NewYorkNuck

100% agree

Not a good look for the Flames.

Jason Brough 🙁
@SadClubCommish
·
11h
Huberdeau’s agent

Allan Walsh
@walsha
·
12h
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. Also, negativity sucks the joy right out of players. cc: @NHLFlames

The team going to get better by sitting their twiddling your thumbs? No different then Minnesota buying out Parise and Suter. You make plans for later, you don't just let opportunities pass you by.

When is "ready to compete"? Draft high for two seasons and pray picks work out? What if Vancouver wins a spot this season and Bedard or Fantilli join the team? You going to say, we aren't going to try this year again because we are hoping for a miracle that OEL gets better?

There probably is no perfect time for buying out OEL. It just has to be done. 2m down the road isn't going to hurt.
- manvanfan

First that 2 mill would hurt us... we are right against the cap... this likely doesn't change. And 2nd, it is 4.7 mill for a couple seasons and 8 in total this def hurts... Minnesota has already had to trade quality players and will be again along with not being able to sign their FA.... WE don't' have those quality players to move out to make CAP and we don't have quality ELC's to help like they do.

Hold off till team is more ready to compete or you need the money to sign someone of value like EP. Longer the better... 4 years of OEL is better then 8 years of buyout when the team isn't competing anyways.

Not a good look for the Flames.

Jason Brough 🙁
@SadClubCommish
·
11h
Huberdeau’s agent

Allan Walsh
@walsha
·
12h
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. Also, negativity sucks the joy right out of players. cc: @NHLFlames
- VanHockeyGuy

Sounds like Huberdeau is regretting going for money over being competitive.

Sounds like Huberdeau is regretting going for money over being competitive.
- Retinalz

When the agent goes to Twitter and complains. Sutter will get Boudreau'ed, then Treliving if they don't shape up soon, he's on his last year.

First that 2 mill would hurt us... we are right against the cap... this likely doesn't change. And 2nd, it is 4.7 mill for a couple seasons and 8 in total this def hurts... Minnesota has already had to trade quality players and will be again along with not being able to sign their FA.... WE don't' have those quality players to move out to make CAP and we don't have quality ELC's to help like they do.

Hold off till team is more ready to compete or you need the money to sign someone of value like EP. Longer the better... 4 years of OEL is better then 8 years of buyout when the team isn't competing anyways.
- SMP8719

Who, where, when? How you gonna know? Will it be too late? What kind of plan is that? Not knowing is a great plan.

To me buying out OEL only makes sense if you’re attempting to use the money somewhere else, to get better. If they plan on purposely having another bad season, which to me makes sense, then he’s not hurting anything when it comes to tanking. He actually helps.
- LeftCoaster

👍🏻 they 💯 need to bottom out next year. If pouty wants to leave that fine

Who, where, when? How you gonna know? Will it be too late? What kind of plan is that? Not knowing is a great plan.
- manvanfan

You sure have a lot of questions for people, when you don't answer questions yourself

You sure have a lot of questions for people, when you don't answer questions yourself
- NewYorkNuck

If you don't give yourself the opportunity, what would be the point of even thinking about the potential?

I'll do it just for you though.

Damon Severson.

It's a fantasy though. Cam Charron said it. You hope draft picks work out, hope you draft well, hope you develop and if hope doesn't actually work out. What do you got other then more wasted years?

Financial flexibility must be wielded

Doesn't even say you have to use it, just have it on hand in case.

Yes, by drafting and developing players, flipping buy low candidates, etc. Minny is a bit different as they have a fantastic prospect pool to replace Sutter and Parise/players that would need that money. Who the (frank) do the Canucks have?

What opportunities are the Canucks missing out on by not buying out OEL?

Also, if you buy out OEL it's not just a 2 mil cap hit. It goes:

23-24: 150k
24-25 2.3 mil
25-26 and 26-27: 4.7 mil
27-28 through 30-31 (4 seasons): 2.1 mil

You wait 2 years:
25-26 and 26-27: 4.1 mil
27-28 and 28-29: 1.5 mil

It's pretty bad cap management to buy him out this summer.
- NewYorkNuck

I agree with all of this. Throwing good money after bad is what got the team into this mess.

If you don't give yourself the opportunity, what would be the point of even thinking about the potential?

I'll do it just for you though.

Damon Severson.

It's a fantasy though. Cam Charron said it. You hope draft picks work out, hope you draft well, hope you develop and if hope doesn't actually work out. What do you got other then more wasted years?

Doesn't even say you have to use it, just have it on hand in case.
- manvanfan

You sure hang on everything Charron says. You do realize that Charron is right up there with Drance and JD Burke, as the biggest tools ever pretending to be media.

You sure hang on everything Charron says. You do realize that Charron is right up there with Drance and JD Burke, as the biggest tools ever pretending to be media.
- Reubenkincade

When did JD Burke and Thomas Dance work for NHL teams?

If you don't give yourself the opportunity, what would be the point of even thinking about the potential?

I'll do it just for you though.

Damon Severson.

It's a fantasy though. Cam Charron said it. You hope draft picks work out, hope you draft well, hope you develop and if hope doesn't actually work out. What do you got other then more wasted years?
- manvanfan

So signing a 28 (will be 29 when the season starts) year old on the open market is the solution to what ails this team? Sign him to a what, 6-7 year deal? At 6-7 mil a year? (With OEL's buyout that's gonna be 8-11 mil combined.) In one fell swoop you've eaten all your cap (plus some) and tied yourself to an aging player who's going to be on the downside of his career soon than later. He's a good player for sure, but he's not going to shift the needle enough to justify the expenses.

The funny thing is, most people here have thought of the "potential" and it doesn't make sense. It comes across as another very Benning move.

"I'll do it just for you though. " You're so arrogant lol. I asked you about what you view as opportunities, it's not some great favor to me to back up your views.

Your last paragraph has a lot of "hope"s. You sign this guy, hope he lives up to his contract, hope the cap implications mean your not trading away your homegrown talent, hope the team (which has been terrible the last few years) turns it around with this one signing and sneaks into the playoffs... and if hope doesn't actually work out. What do you got other then more wasted years?

As for your edit:

Doesn't even say you have to use it, just have it on hand in case

Lol at that. You don't have cap flexibility if you buy out OEL and sign Severson

So signing a 28 (will be 29 when the season starts) year old on the open market is the solution to what ails this team? Sign him to a what, 6-7 year deal? At 6-7 mil a year? (With OEL's buyout that's gonna be 8-11 mil combined.) In one fell swoop you've eaten all your cap (plus some) and tied yourself to an aging player who's going to be on the downside of his career soon than later. He's a good player for sure, but he's not going to shift the needle enough to justify the expenses.

The funny thing is, most people here have thought of the "potential" and it doesn't make sense. It comes across as another very Benning move.

"I'll do it just for you though. " You're so arrogant lol. I asked you about what you view as opportunities, it's not some great favor to me to back up your views.

Your last paragraph has a lot of "hope"s. You sign this guy, hope he lives up to his contract, hope the cap implications mean your not trading away your homegrown talent, hope the team (which has been terrible the last few years) turns it around with this one signing and sneaks into the playoffs... and if hope doesn't actually work out. What do you got other then more wasted years?
- NewYorkNuck

Who says the Canucks have to sign him to that length or that dollar amount? Maybe if that is what he wants you walk away. Maybe a John Marino type trade comes up again. Can you do that without cap space? No.

It's not about moving the needle in one year, it's about creating a team, piece by piece. You aren't going to get all of your pieces by drafting. All of your pieces will not come all at once or exactly when your team needs them. You need to acquire them over time.

Sitting there twiddling your thumbs and letting things pass you by is not how the NHL works. Sorry unless you want to become Arizona.

The Stellar Rangers had no problem buying out bad defenders.

Shattenkirk
2019-20 $1,433,333 $1,483,333
2020-21 $1,433,333 $6,083,333
2021-22 $1,433,333 $1,433,333
2022-23 $1,433,333 $1,433,333

Girardi
2017-18 $1,111,111 $2,611,111
2018-19 $1,111,111 $3,611,111
2019-20 $1,111,111 $3,611,111
2020-21 $1,111,111 $1,111,111
2021-22 $1,111,111 $1,111,111
2022-23 $1,111,111 $1,111,111

Who says the Canucks have to sign him to that length or that dollar amount? Maybe if that is what he wants you walk away. Maybe a John Marino type trade comes up again. Can you do that without cap space? No.

It's not about moving the needle in one years, it's about creating a team, piece by piece. You aren't going to get all of your pieces by drafting. All of your pieces will not come all at once or exactly when your team needs them. You need to acquire them over time.

Sitting there twiddling your thumbs and letting things pass you by is not how the NHL works.
- manvanfan

You think any free agent is going to come to the Canucks, in their current state, on a sweetheart deal? The Canucks will be overpaying for years on free agents, especially on players that other teams actually want. Maybe a player signs, maybe a trade comes up... "Not knowing is a great plan." - you

Cool man. Thanks for breaking that down for me. I was unsure how the NHL works. We obviously have different mindsets on where the team is at – I feel like you add players when your team is on the upswing, not when they're drowning so you can tread flood waters. Have fun on your island

You think any free agent is going to come to the Canucks, in their current state, on a sweetheart deal? The Canucks will be overpaying for years on free agents, especially on players that other teams actually want. Maybe a player signs, maybe a trade comes up... "Not knowing is a great plan." - you

Cool man. Thanks for breaking that down for me. I was unsure how the NHL works. We obviously have different mindsets on where the team is at – I feel like you add players when your team is on the upswing, not when they're drowning so you can tread flood waters. Have fun on your island
- NewYorkNuck

We figured that out last year. Not about the team but just how you think in straight lines, absolute and I'm about possibilities/variables.

I enjoy our conversations, heated or not. I have always said I like to hear what others thinks and debate.

As Ruby said I hang off every word Cam Charron says. He worked for an NHL team for 8 years. He knows much more than me. I would work off things he says because he would know more than me.

I might be on the island about buying OEL in here but as I posted above, and before. NHL teams buyout players like that at length for years. Turris, Girardi, Sutter, Parise, Shattenkirk, Martin Jones.

The team going to get better by sitting their twiddling your thumbs? No different then Minnesota buying out Parise and Suter. You make plans for later, you don't just let opportunities pass you by.

When is "ready to compete"? Draft high for two seasons and pray picks work out? What if Vancouver wins a spot this season and Bedard or Fantilli join the team? You going to say, we aren't going to try this year again because we are hoping for a miracle that OEL gets better?

There probably is no perfect time for buying out OEL. It just has to be done. 2m down the road isn't going to hurt.
- manvanfan

Even if they got Bedard or Fantilli, this team is going nowhere with the defense it has, lack of prospect depth, and no cap flexibility, period.
Drop Bedard into this mess, and it still has OEL, Myers, Bear, and a cast of misfits toys playing D. And with no prospects on D or F for that matter, pushing in Abby. If you buy OEL out, then you have no cap flexibility going forward. That would be making the mess even worse. That OEL deal was the ultimate in either
1) JB worst GM ever up there with Milbury
or
2) The best "fvck you eat this poop sandwich" on the way out the door deal ever.

Really the best solution is a proper scorched earth rebuild and try again. This team is "Proper Fvcked" and it will take multiple years and blonde Surrey girls to unscrew it.

I agree with all of this. Throwing good money after bad is what got the team into this mess.
- Load Management

Yep 100%

We figured that out last year. Not about the team but just how you think in straight lines, absolute and I'm about possibilities/variables.

I enjoy our conversations, heated or not. I have always said I like to hear what others thinks and debate.

As Ruby said I hang off every word Cam Charron says. He worked for an NHL team for 8 years. He knows much more than me. I would work off things he says because he would know more than me.

I might be on the island about buying OEL in here but as I posted above, and before. NHL teams buyout players like that at length for years. Turris, Girardi, Sutter, Parise, Shattenkirk, Martin Jones.
- manvanfan

That’s a lie or you’d have more faith in drafting and rebuilding, which you don’t. Every team that takes a step back eventually sees the fruits of that, but it takes years, and, although the Stanley Cup is the ultimate goal, being a competitive entertaining team is success. At least to me.

I saw your opinion piece from Cam, he has no more idea what the Canucks are thinking than you or I. Regarding his opinion on rebuilding, I think that’s a crock as well. Every team rebuilds every year through the draft. Teams that openly tank ultimately find success in the form of winning but sometimes they need to reset, like Colorado did, before they find it. Which I think is where the Canucks are.

I read and skim and wonder how is it possible that the Canuck management hasn’t traded every player? Like what is the point of icing NHL talent when you can pile up draft picks. Then just hope to develop players to NHL levels and trade them again.

Okay it’s a vicious circle. Plans just don’t pan out so easily. Takes luck and timing. Oh now we’re back to hope again lol.

That’s a lie or you’d have more faith in drafting and rebuilding, which you don’t. Every team that takes a step back eventually sees the fruits of that, but it takes years, and, although the Stanley Cup is the ultimate goal, being a competitive entertaining team is success. At least to me.

I saw your opinion piece from Cam, he has no more idea what the Canucks are thinking than you or I. Regarding his opinion on rebuilding, I think that’s a crock as well. Every team rebuilds every year through the draft. Teams that openly tank ultimately find success in the form of winning but sometimes they need to reset, like Colorado did, before they find it. Which I think is where the Canucks are.
- LeftCoaster

Now I'm being told what I think Somehow I'm the arrogant one.



I guess I should believe you and not someone formerly employed by an NHL organization.

Please see Exhibit A: Arizona