Location: Making the most of the worst situation... Canuck fan 4life , BC Joined: 12.23.2014
Feb 19 @ 11:55 PM ET
Agreed with all of this except the Myers / OEL pair as good as any FA < 3mil. You can find decent FA D signing a week or so after July 1, that can be value contracts. Those 2 are not value... - carsonagenic
They are negative value with their contacts but I don't think we'd get any top 4D for 3mil in free agency. Overpaying D is how we got into this mess in the first place. Every year we seen to get a 3m defender who fails to meet expectations.
Keep Myers until next deadline, trade him with 50 percent retained.
Keep OEL for at least 1 or 2 years, then buy him out or trade him with 50 percent retained. I'm sure some team would take him for 3.5 mill per season with 2 years left.... or maybe I'm high.
They are negative value with their contacts but I don't think we'd get any top 4D for 3mil in free agency. Overpaying D is how we got into this mess in the first place. Every year we seen to get a 3m defender who fails to meet expectations.
Keep Myers until next deadline, trade him with 50 percent retained.
Keep OEL for at least 1 or 2 years, then buy him out or trade him with 50 percent retained. I'm sure some team would take him for 3.5 mill per season with 2 years left.... or maybe I'm high. - Pres.cup
Both are awful. Myers getting traded is a huge win, i dont dare tk dream on OEL
They are negative value with their contacts but I don't think we'd get any top 4D for 3mil in free agency. Overpaying D is how we got into this mess in the first place. Every year we seen to get a 3m defender who fails to meet expectations.
Keep Myers until next deadline, trade him with 50 percent retained.
Keep OEL for at least 1 or 2 years, then buy him out or trade him with 50 percent retained. I'm sure some team would take him for 3.5 mill per season with 2 years left.... or maybe I'm high. - Pres.cup
They are negative value with their contacts but I don't think we'd get any top 4D for 3mil in free agency. Overpaying D is how we got into this mess in the first place. Every year we seen to get a 3m defender who fails to meet expectations.
Keep Myers until next deadline, trade him with 50 percent retained.
Keep OEL for at least 1 or 2 years, then buy him out or trade him with 50 percent retained. I'm sure some team would take him for 3.5 mill per season with 2 years left.... or maybe I'm high. - Pres.cup
I don't think anyone is ever going to touch OEL unless he has some Karlsson-like resurgence. We'll have to but him out at some point... but ya, generally agree with this.
They are negative value with their contacts but I don't think we'd get any top 4D for 3mil in free agency. Overpaying D is how we got into this mess in the first place. Every year we seen to get a 3m defender who fails to meet expectations.
Keep Myers until next deadline, trade him with 50 percent retained.
Keep OEL for at least 1 or 2 years, then buy him out or trade him with 50 percent retained. I'm sure some team would take him for 3.5 mill per season with 2 years left.... or maybe I'm high. - Pres.cup
Definitely no overpays, just cheap gap fillers that have a potential upside. You don't build a team, let alone a defense through free agency.
Myers next deadline for any asset possible, yep
OEL Buyout in 2 years, or jersey allergy, career ending terminal crabs, etc. yep
Definitely no overpays, just cheap gap fillers that have a potential upside. You don't build a team, let alone a defense through free agency.
Myers next deadline for any asset possible, yep
OEL Buyout in 2 years, or jersey allergy, career ending terminal crabs, etc. yep - carsonagenic
The goal now is to waste the last good years of Miller and two prime years of Hughes and Pettersson because? Plus the last two cheap years of Kuzmenko now too.
The goal now is to waste the last good years of Miller and two prime years of Hughes and Pettersson because? Plus the last two cheap years of Kuzmenko now too. - manvanfan
Yep waste em...lol
Cant help them chasing it when there is nothing to chase.
What is the goal of this team, honestly?
For all teams, it has to be to win the Stanley Cup.
What are you adding in the next 2 years to create a Cup winner, with a very low end prospect pool, especially on D, capped out overpaid vets on the big club, and a current 4th from the bottom in the entire league team.
Not all iterations of a team are built correctly or are Cup contenders. If the actual goal is to become a real Cup contender for a 5 year window, this group is not it. By the time the prospect pool and all those valuable ELC deals are ready, if they even build one, with this team, these players will have moved on or will be on the downside of their careers.
It is ownership and managements complete lack of honesty with themselves and the fans in where the entire organization currently stands that is the underlying problem. If this is how an actual Stanley Cup winning organization was built, the Canucks would have won many over their 52 year history by now. But since it is not...well there is your reason for Smythe Division banners and a Ring of Honor in the building instead of Cup Banners.
The way this team chases and pretends they are close is like Homer and the BBQ pig...its still good
The goal now is to waste the last good years of Miller and two prime years of Hughes and Pettersson because? Plus the last two cheap years of Kuzmenko now too. - manvanfan
Is Jim Benning your uncle? You’re not “wasting” their years, rather, you’re building something more sustainable and competitive. The Dallas Stars weren’t competitive until Mike Modano was 26 years old, they won a Championship when he was 28. Same with Joe Sakic, competitive when he was 25 and then suddenly won when he was 26 after many years of building. Steven Stamkos and Kucherov didn’t win a Championship until they were 30 and 27. Although they did go to a Cup final early in their careers Tampa had to do a reset before they got better again.
Pettersson is 24 & Q. Hughes is 23. Patience little one!
Is Jim Benning your uncle? You’re not “wasting” their years, rather, you’re building something more sustainable and competitive. The Dallas Stars weren’t competitive until Mike Modano was 26 years old, they won a Championship when he was 28. Same with Joe Sakic, competitive when he was 25 and then suddenly won when he was 26 after many years of building. Steven Stamkos and Kucherov didn’t win a Championship until they were 30 and 27. Although they did go to a Cup final early in their careers Tampa had to do a reset before they got better again.
Pettersson is 24 & Q. Hughes is 23. Patience little one! - LeftCoaster
Is Jim Benning your uncle? You’re not “wasting” their years, rather, you’re building something more sustainable and competitive. The Dallas Stars weren’t competitive until Mike Modano was 26 years old, they won a Championship when he was 28. Same with Joe Sakic, competitive when he was 25 and then suddenly won when he was 26 after many years of building. Steven Stamkos and Kucherov didn’t win a Championship until they were 30 and 27. Although they did go to a Cup final early in their careers Tampa had to do a reset before they got better again.
Pettersson is 24 & Q. Hughes is 23. Patience little one! - LeftCoaster
You should try and relate things to this generation.
If we want the TB model. Canucks are adding next TDL with some big moves like TB did.
Let's not forget how much love you gave to Virtanen and how great that Hextall model was.
Those are a life time of look back and hide head in shame.
Yep waste em...lol
Cant help them chasing it when there is nothing to chase.
What is the goal of this team, honestly?
For all teams, it has to be to win the Stanley Cup.
What are you adding in the next 2 years to create a Cup winner, with a very low end prospect pool, especially on D, capped out overpaid vets on the big club, and a current 4th from the bottom in the entire league team.
Not all iterations of a team are built correctly or are Cup contenders. If the actual goal is to become a real Cup contender for a 5 year window, this group is not it. By the time the prospect pool and all those valuable ELC deals are ready, if they even build one, with this team, these players will have moved on or will be on the downside of their careers.
It is ownership and managements complete lack of honesty with themselves and the fans in where the entire organization currently stands that is the underlying problem. If this is how an actual Stanley Cup winning organization was built, the Canucks would have won many over their 52 year history by now. But since it is not...well there is your reason for Smythe Division banners and a Ring of Honor in the building instead of Cup Banners.
The way this team chases and pretends they are close is like Homer and the BBQ pig...its still good
- carsonagenic
Very sour rant that the Canucks haven't gone scorched earth rebuild.
Buffalo hasn't made the playoffs in 11 years from their scorched earth rebuild number whatever, can't count anymore.
Is Jim Benning your uncle? You’re not “wasting” their years, rather, you’re building something more sustainable and competitive. The Dallas Stars weren’t competitive until Mike Modano was 26 years old, they won a Championship when he was 28. Same with Joe Sakic, competitive when he was 25 and then suddenly won when he was 26 after many years of building. Steven Stamkos and Kucherov didn’t win a Championship until they were 30 and 27. Although they did go to a Cup final early in their careers Tampa had to do a reset before they got better again.
Pettersson is 24 & Q. Hughes is 23. Patience little one! - LeftCoaster
The 2 most important qualities of a true Cup contending team now days are, IMO
1) Organizational Depth, especially at Defense and Center
2) Cap Space
These are a must have, period, full stop.
By having these 2 qualities, it makes,
A) The roster affordable to pay for the high end talent that top teams have.
B) Inserts youth and speed into the lineup
C) Gives depth at the most important positions when injuries hit.
D) Gives trade capital to improve the roster when it is actually time to go for it.
This current version of the team has neither.
Cap space can be acquired way quicker the organizational depth, but it cannot be ignored. Trading for terrible contacts with term (OEL) or resigning players at the wrong development curve of the team (JTM, Kuz) can derail any growth in that critical cap space when you actually need it.
The depth issue takes years to correct and starting from where they are and constantly pushing it back does not help at all in becoming a true contender. The Oiler, 2 best players in the world, can't win because of lack of depth on the big squad. They are getting depth in the farm after sucking so long, but the Big Two's window is closing soon. It is a delicate balance of these 2 factors, plus many others of course, that make a team have a true Cup window.
The Canucks and their never ending shortcuts have undermined the team and doomed this version of Team Petey. It will take 5 years to build enough depth, and have them ready before they can even think of competing. So Petey will be 29 Miller 35 and Kuz 32. Wrong time cycle...sorry for the the truth.
Very sour rant that the Canucks haven't gone scorched earth rebuild.
Buffalo hasn't made the playoffs in 11 years from their scorched earth rebuild number whatever, can't count anymore. - manvanfan
They have made errors as well. It is tough to build a good team, or everybody would be doing it. Since the Canucks have never even tried this method, I'm willing to give a chance. The tires keep a spinning... and the years pass by.
You should try and relate things to this generation.
If we want the TB model. Canucks are adding next TDL with some big moves like TB did.
Let's not forget how much love you gave to Virtanen and how great that Hextall model was.
Those are a life time of look back and hide head in shame. - manvanfan
Where is all the depth that TB had and drafted coming from on the Canucks?
They have no farm system ready to compete! Why is this so hard to understand?
They have made errors as well. It is tough to build a good team, or everybody would be doing it. Since the Canucks have never even tried this method, I'm willing to give a chance. The tires keep a spinning... and the years pass by. - carsonagenic
The rules are changing too. No more 12 year contracts, no more winning lotto multiple times in a row. Building through the draft has become 5 times as hard then a decade ago when Pitt and Chi did it. It's pretty well not possible to achieve those results from the draft anymore.
They have made errors as well. It is tough to build a good team, or everybody would be doing it. Since the Canucks have never even tried this method, I'm willing to give a chance. The tires keep a spinning... and the years pass by. - carsonagenic
Definitely should be buying/overpaying in free agency, spending to the cap. It's done wonders for this team from Vancouver who has 1 playoff birth in the last 7 years and counting by constantly having short term vision
Where is all the depth that TB had and drafted coming from on the Canucks?
They have no farm system ready to compete! Why is this so hard to understand? - carsonagenic
Where did it come from in Tampa Bay?
Gourde, the type of winger some Canuck fans love to mock. Free agent.
Coleman, trade 1st round pick.
Sergachev, swapped high 1st round picks
Johnson, another halfling. free agent
Goodrow trade 1st round pick.
Cernak trade.
McDonough trade.
Savard 1st round pick.
The rest drafted and had been the same core for quite a while. Add in some a nice prospect in Point and Cirelli.
Location: I’m a dose of reality in this cesspool of glee Joined: 10.22.2011
Feb 20 @ 11:28 AM ET
The 2 most important qualities of a true Cup contending team now days are, IMO
1) Organizational Depth, especially at Defense and Center
2) Cap Space
These are a must have, period, full stop.
By having these 2 qualities, it makes,
A) The roster affordable to pay for the high end talent that top teams have.
B) Inserts youth and speed into the lineup
C) Gives depth at the most important positions when injuries hit.
D) Gives trade capital to improve the roster when it is actually time to go for it.
This current version of the team has neither.
Cap space can be acquired way quicker the organizational depth, but it cannot be ignored. Trading for terrible contacts with term (OEL) or resigning players at the wrong development curve of the team (JTM, Kuz) can derail any growth in that critical cap space when you actually need it.
The depth issue takes years to correct and starting from where they are and constantly pushing it back does not help at all in becoming a true contender. The Oiler, 2 best players in the world, can't win because of lack of depth on the big squad. They are getting depth in the farm after sucking so long, but the Big Two's window is closing soon. It is a delicate balance of these 2 factors, plus many others of course, that make a team have a true Cup window.
The Canucks and their never ending shortcuts have undermined the team and doomed this version of Team Petey. It will take 5 years to build enough depth, and have them ready before they can even think of competing. So Petey will be 29 Miller 35 and Kuz 32. Wrong time cycle...sorry for the the truth. - carsonagenic
Or your goalie can get hot at the right time and you have a relatively healthy roster.
Sometimes it’s not science, sometimes it’s just dumb luck. That’s sports for ya.
The rules are changing too. No more 12 year contracts, no more winning lotto multiple times in a row. Building through the draft has become 5 times as hard then a decade ago when Pitt and Chi did it. It's pretty well not possible to achieve those results from the draft anymore. - manvanfan
If you take BPA 5'10" wingers and completely ignore building the defense, and center positions, it does.
Having a strong farm system is the number one way to having a strong team in the NHL. Without it, there is no way to win. You run out of cap space well before a compete window even opens. Look at the Canucks now, no farm, no cap space, kind of a correlation there.
But hey, make a mistake and buyout OEL now and create more dead space to correct a stupid mistake. Use it to replace him with another FA signing and keep reaching for that rainbow!
Building through FA and spending to the cap as a bottom 5 team is a sure recipe for success...
So they had cap space, prospects and picks to do what you just mentioned...right? - carsonagenic
No, it was pretty well the opposite. They had to pay 1st round picks for other teams cheap players because they had no cap space. They made trades because they made errors in their own drafting. From 2014 till they won the cup in 19-20, it was Point and Cirelli on the team for prospects.
