I literally have said nothing other than I think Greenway can re-bound and be a solid 3rd line, 30ish point physical winger again.

Reward outweighs risk is all I said. I never said he was the 2nd coming of Wayne Simmonds and future 30 goal scorer.

So if you find putting words in my mouth amusing, laugh away I guess.
- mochoson

I don't doubt that Greenway can be, but the Flyers have an over-abundance of this type of player, and they have little to cap space. The Flyers thus should focus on clearing cap space and building a legitimate NHL top line, and it starts with getting one of the 3 top centers in this year's draft.

So tell me what makes you believe he would be a great get for JVR at 3M a year for two more years?
- MJL

The fact that he did it for 3+ years prior to a nagging shoulder injury that caused him to miss all of training camp and then parts of the season, which I've literally written about 5 times already.

It's alright, I get it. You disagree. You don't want his salary on the Flyers and don't think he'll help in any fashion. I couldn't disagree more. The end. No more discussion to be had.

First of all, you and others on this forum where vehemently against the Flyers getting Risto on the grounds that his advanced metrics were very poor for multiple seasons in Buffalo. I argued that those metrics were misleading because Risto played for very bad teams and in general most of these metrics are flawed when it comes to truly rating an individual player's impact to the team. I correctly stated it then and I am stating it now. But don't take my word for it, many real NHL head coaches state the exact same thing including Torts multiple times this year, specifically that most of the advanced metrics are crap! Risto came into Philly and within 22 games of his first season the head coach is fired and replaced by Mike Yeo, who you yourself has said is a vey poor NHL coach. But your bashing of Risto continued. Even this year when its crystal clear to anyone who has any knowledge of the sport that Risto has had a good year so far, you still bash him any chance yo get. Sorry, I don't call that giving the player a legitimate chance to succeed.


- jd250

Stating that you correctly stated it then and stating it now correct, is not reality. It is fantasy. Ristolainen remains a very mediocre player.

Back when Fletcher traded Risto, I did not think Fletcher gave up a lot to get him; the 14th pick in a weak and Covid-clouded draft, a 2nd this year (which I actually think is more valuable than the 1st) and Robert Haag. When I say Fletcher paid a high price to get Risto, I am referring to the trade but also the he extended Risto to the tune of $25M over 5 years; that clearly was an overpay that I don't believe ANY other NHL team would have done for the player. I did praise the move at the time, because at the time AV was the coach and Risto was not extended for 5 more years. However today, seeing what has happened to the team and seeing what kind of player Risto is, I can clearly state the Flyers have overpaid for Risto. You like to sit on your high horse and say you knew it all along, but you had no idea. The only thing I will give you credit for is you have disliked Fletcher from the very beginning and now after we have seen what Fletcher has done 4 years later, that dislike is well justified.


- jd250

Again, not reality. I did know it all along just like I knew that the moves Fletcher made were more likely to hurt the team moving forward than help them. If need be, I can supply the post where I stated that.

Regarding Giroux, you had NO idea that Giroux only wanted to go to Florida and that it had been leaked. No one knew that until days after the trade was made. Clearly if Fletcher was able to get 3 teams involved in the Giroux trade, the return would have been much closer to what I expected than to what you expected. You just lucked into it because of what Giroux did behind the scenes. Now you want to act like you knew it all along ... can't make it up!
- jd250

Again, you're not dealing in reality. You insisted that before Giroux was traded that the Flyers were going to be able to get a top young player such as Newhook from Colorado or Lundell from Florida. Many including myself told you repeatedly that wasn't going to happen. You argued repeatedly that they could. Many including myself knew for weeks leading up to the deadline that Giroux would limit where he wanted to go. That was well known. Once the trade was made, you posted repeatedly that Fletcher got fleeced. He got a prospect from Florida that wasn't a good player and couldn't get into Florida's lineup. Now you rave about Tippett. I agree, can't make it up.

Hayes is a good NHL player. Not a great one or a star but he is a solid 2 way player with some size and hockey IQ. He can slide throughout the middle 6 and would be a plus for maybe Carolina and Colorado. Fletcher would be well-served to not give him away. Hayes should be a hockey trade and the more salary retained the greater the return should be.
- mikeyo27

Maybe package Hayes and JVR together for a clean 2nd round pick in this year's draft. That plus the cap relief would be an acceptable return.

I literally have said nothing other than I think Greenway can re-bound and be a solid 3rd line, 30ish point physical winger again.

Reward outweighs risk is all I said. I never said he was the 2nd coming of Wayne Simmonds and future 30 goal scorer.

So if you find putting words in my mouth amusing, laugh away I guess.
- mochoson

he could be what you say, would I do it for a 2nd, if that is was the best deal on the table for JVR maybe but I prefer just a pick, now their 1st and Greenway, sure.

I think CF should pair up JVR and Seeler, hold 1/2 on both and go find the best deal. Even involve a 3rd team to hold 1/2 on JVR to open him up to teams who don't have the cap space at straight 50% retention.

The fact that he did it for 3+ years prior to a nagging shoulder injury that caused him to miss all of training camp and then parts of the season, which I've literally written about 5 times already.

It's alright, I get it. You disagree. You don't want his salary on the Flyers and don't think he'll help in any fashion. I couldn't disagree more. The end. No more discussion to be had.
- mochoson

He did what for 3+ years? He's had one season where he surpassed 30 points and has a career high of 12 goals. Why do we want a player like that for a 3M cap hit with the state the Flyers are in? He doesn't have upside. He has weaknesses all over the place in his game. This is not a player who has been held back by injury that you should take a chance on. This is not difficult.

Maybe package Hayes and JVR together for a clean 2nd round pick in this year's draft. That plus the cap relief would be an acceptable return.
- jd250

that would be a horrible return.

package jvr and seeler

Again, you're not dealing in reality. You insisted that before Giroux was traded that the Flyers were going to be able to get a top young player such as Newhook from Colorado or Lundell from Florida. Many including myself told you repeatedly that wasn't going to happen. You argued repeatedly that they could. Many including myself knew for weeks leading up to the deadline that Giroux would limit where he wanted to go. That was well known. Once the trade was made, you posted repeatedly that Fletcher got fleeced. He got a prospect from Florida that wasn't a good player and couldn't get into Florida's lineup. Now you rave about Tippett. I agree, can't make it up.
- MJL

When have you ever heard me rave about Tippett?? Now that I know what Fletcher had to deal with I actually think that anything decent coming back from Florido was a good return, after all Florida was only bidding against themselves. Tippet was not even able to play 3rd line for the Panthers so why would I be excited about him then? Since then he clearly has developed and for that you need to THANK Torts and his staff! Again I NEVER stated Fletcher was going to get Lundell or Newhook, only that if I were Fletcher that is where I would start. But again, that was when I thought there were multiple teams in the mix to get Giroux. So yes, its clear you like to make up things and ignore all the facts, but luckily I am here to keep you honest.

I don't doubt that Greenway can be, but the Flyers have an over-abundance of this type of player, and they have little to cap space. The Flyers thus should focus on clearing cap space and building a legitimate NHL top line, and it starts with getting one of the 3 top centers in this year's draft.
- jd250

Replacing JVR with Greenway is a net cap increase of +4m.

You replace JVR with a much more physical version of himself before hitting FA. You literally can't sign a 26 year old power forward type checking winger to a 2 year $6 million deal in FA. You will always overpay for a player of that type, at that age, in both term and money.

If the Flyers had forward prospects ready to break onto the team, I'd be more hesitant to take on a contract and salary prior to evaluating next years prospects and training camps. But unless someone has insider info that I don't, none of Brink, Foerester, etc are ready for full time roles next year.

I literally have said nothing other than I think Greenway can re-bound and be a solid 3rd line, 30ish point physical winger again.
- mochoson

He could barely break 30-points on the Wild's 2nd-line. He's not gonna score 30 on the Flyers' 3rd and with the Flyers PP being what it is. Give that idea up.

He did what for 3+ years? He's had one season where he surpassed 30 points and has a career high of 12 goals. Why do we want a player like that for a 3M cap hit with the state the Flyers are in? He doesn't have upside. He has weaknesses all over the place in his game. This is not a player who has been held back by injury that you should take a chance on. This is not difficult.
- MJL

Beating a dead horse mate. We disagree.

I mean I already pointed out the obvious that they've finished no 3rd than lower in their division since hiring him the last year they missed the playoffs. I don't know what else a GM is supposed to do other than help them compete every year? Does he need to win a cup like Yzerman and Sakic to be a "good GM"? How about you tell me what a "good GM" is?

You've completely ignored this entire time my general premise, which isn't hard to understand at all.

If my options are a career business man or another nepotism hire who just bounces around between "managing" teams or a former player whos being groomed to learn how to be a be a manger, I choose the latter.

You say you want an outsider and I'm telling you Briere is the closest thing you'll get to an "outsider" (not a career suit) as long as Comcast runs this team.

But I get it: no more former players or company guys for you. You've made that vehemently clear despite it not being realistic whatsoever.
- mochoson

Nothing was ignored. In my world, a GM helping a team to compete doesn't add up to that GM being a great GM.

What the Flyers will be willing to do, is a different conversation

Replacing JVR with Greenway is a net cap increase of +4m.

You replace JVR with a much more physical version of himself before hitting FA. You literally can't sign a 26 year old power forward type checking winger to a 2 year $6 million deal in FA. You will always overpay for a player of that type, at that age, in both term and money.

If the Flyers had forward prospects ready to break onto the team, I'd be more hesitant to take on a contract and salary prior to evaluating next years prospects and training camps. But unless someone has insider info that I don't, none of Brink, Foerster, etc are ready for full time roles next year.
- mochoson

But we don't need to replace JVR with any player from another club! The Flyers have multiple players that can take JVR's spot for under $1M, like Brink, Foerster and maybe even next year Gauthier. There is no reason for Fletcher to spend 1 penny of cap space an any position this off season, he has all the players he needs right here in his system already. For once the Flyers need to start accumulating cap space for real, and getting JVR off the books and hopefully Hayes also off the books is the right place to start.

I find it amusing that the same guy who insists Guerin is a shining example of a good GM is also claiming that a player Guerin decided the Wild are better off without is gonna be some diamond in the rough that the Flyers can sucker them out of.
- Tomahawk

That's simple common sense, right?

I'd much rather put Jordan Greenway net front on a powerplay than RASMUS (frank)ING RISTOLAINEN.
- mochoson

Well there you go. You've convinced me.

That's simple common sense, right?
- MJL

You're pompous beyond belief.

When have you ever heard me rave about Tippett?? Now that I know what Fletcher had to deal with I actually think that anything decent coming back from Florido was a good return, after all Florida was only bidding against themselves. Tippet was not even able to play 3rd line for the Panthers so why would I be excited about him then? Since then he clearly has developed and for that you need to THANK Torts and his staff! Again I NEVER stated Fletcher was going to get Lundell or Newhook, only that if I were Fletcher that is where I would start. But again, that was when I thought there were multiple teams in the mix to get Giroux. So yes, its clear you like to make up things and ignore all the facts, but luckily I am here to keep you honest.
- jd250

BTW, Anton Lundell has 27 points is 52 games this season. Ah .. Paul Maurice, you never cease to amaze me with your ability to pull everything you touch into mediocrity!

Newhook is even worse, 22 points in 58 games! Too bad they both didn't get to play for Torts!

There is no reason for Fletcher to spend 1 penny of cap space an any position this off season, he has all the players he needs right here in his system already..
- jd250

- mochoson

What's really funny is your arguing with multiple people the Greenway would be a nice player for the Flyers .. can't make it up!

When have you ever heard me rave about Tippett?? Now that I know what Fletcher had to deal with I actually think that anything decent coming back from Florido was a good return, after all Florida was only bidding against themselves. Tippet was not even able to play 3rd line for the Panthers so why would I be excited about him then? Since then he clearly has developed and for that you need to THANK Torts and his staff! Again I NEVER stated Fletcher was going to get Lundell or Newhook, only that if I were Fletcher that is where I would start. But again, that was when I thought there were multiple teams in the mix to get Giroux. So yes, its clear you like to make up things and ignore all the facts, but luckily I am here to keep you honest.
- jd250

You've raved about Tippett more times than I can count. The issue is you didn't heed the words of those who were telling you what was going to happen long before the trade was made. Arguing vociferously that the Flyers were going to get Newhook or Lundell. Then you ripped the trade and didn't understand that Florida had a deep forward lineup. Many including myself told you to no avail that Tippett was a really good prospect. You're not being honest. Just creating your own alternate reality.

BTW, Anton Lundell has 27 points is 52 games this season. Ah .. Paul Maurice, you never cease to amaze me with your ability to pull everything you touch into mediocrity!

Newhook is even worse, 22 points in 58 games! Too bad they both didn't get to play for Torts!
- jd250

I guess Jared Bednar is a bad coach also. I can see why you say it's too bad they didn't play for Tortorella with the offensive juggernaut that the Flyers are.

You've raved about Tippett more times than I can count. The issue is you didn't heed the words of those who were telling you what was going to happen long before the trade was made. Arguing vociferously that the Flyers were going to get Newhook or Lundell. Then you ripped the trade and didn't understand that Florida had a deep forward lineup. Many including myself told you to no avail that Tippett was a really good prospect. You're not being honest. Just creating your own alternate reality.
- MJL

Someone is not being honest here and we know who it is ....

The fact that he did it for 3+ years prior to a nagging shoulder injury that caused him to miss all of training camp and then parts of the season, which I've literally written about 5 times already.

It's alright, I get it. You disagree. You don't want his salary on the Flyers and don't think he'll help in any fashion. I couldn't disagree more. The end. No more discussion to be had.
- mochoson

Did what exactly?

12 goals and 12 assists in 81 games?
8 goals and 20 assists in 67 games?
6 goals and 26 assists in 56 games?
10 goals and 17 assists in 62 games?

Which season was he doing anything other than sucking?

For 3 million I say no way. We can get that kind of production from prospects on rookie deals and save the cap space.

But knowing Fletch, not only will he trade JVR for him, he will throw in salary retention and a pick.

I guess Jared Bednar is a bad coach also. I can see why you say it's too bad they didn't play for Tortorella with the offensive juggernaut that the Flyers are.
- MJL

Are you kidding, these kids would be fore-checking, blocking shots and being tough to play against! They would be playing to the "standard"! Who wouldn't want that??

What's really funny is your arguing with multiple people the Greenway would be a nice player for the Flyers .. can't make it up!
- jd250

Yeah I guess it's hilarious to actually have ideas about how your hockey team could try to improve instead of just coming to a forum everyday female doging and complaining that they suck.

'hUrrrr dUrr He's overpa1d N bad N zo slow d00d r u st00pid 0r wut"

That's all I've read for 3 pages. Real riveting stuff.