Is a more competent GM able to trade JVR at 50% retention for draft pick?
- hello it's me 2050

Well another team would actually have to want him. Fletcher did not want to toss the player under the bus, but no one really wanted the guy. What is he supposed to do?

The gm stinks but not being able to move JVR has nothing to do w that

My favorite baseball team, Baltimore, lost 115 games in 2018.

They traded anyone of value for prospects, let the manager and GM walk and rebuilt from scratch.

They now have probably the best prospects in baseball.

I fully expect the Orioles to be in a World Series before the Flyers make a Cup final.
- MrBuzzcut

I have not thought about the orioles since the 80s and suspect it will take another 50 years before they are relevant again.

Without injury there's a fair few I'd take ahead of him. Matthews, McDavid, Drysaddle, Crosby, Malkin...MacK
- Aaron_85

It isn’t unfair to say anyone would take the following over a healthy Sean Couturier.

Connor McDavid
Austin Matthews
Leon Draisaitl
Sidney Crosby
Steven Stamkos
Nathan MacKinnon
Gino Malkin
John Tavares
Jack Hughes
Mika Zibanejad
Brayden Point
Patrice Bergeron
Elias Pettersson
Niklas Backstrom

Well another team would actually have to want him. Fletcher did not want to toss the player under the bus, but no one really wanted the guy. What is he supposed to do?

The gm stinks but not being able to move JVR has nothing to do w that
- Joe Nardone

None of us are in the room or in on the phone calls. It’s easy for us outsiders to say “nobody wanted JvR”. Plenty of names were moved that made me think why would team X want that player? You know what I think happened? I think Fletcher waited till the last possible minute to get the best possible deal for JvR because Fletcher felt like he was our best possible available asset and the wait blew up in his face. Do you know why I believe this? Because Chuck Fletcher is a buffoon. I have more confidence in JvR doing his job than I do Fletcher to do his job.

Is a more competent GM able to trade JVR at 50% retention for draft pick?
- hello it's me 2050

I do not like that he said they made it know he was available.
That sounds like he was waiting for offers instead of persuing a trade. Sounds passive

I've been a huge Coots fan since he came up with the team, but we have to face the facts...he might never play again, and even if he does, will not be the same player. Do you really think he will score 30 goals again?
- Don Nachbaur

You're telling me we have to face the facts and proceed to not list a single fact. Of course there is concern and he might not be the same player. Then again, he might be. Like I said previously. We don't know how he is going to recover. We have to wait and see.

Is a more competent GM able to trade JVR at 50% retention for draft pick?
- hello it's me 2050

Of course. That’s the problem. All the word “incompetent” means is “not having or showing the necessary skills to do something successfully’….I think incompetent is exactly the word to describe Fletchers over all job here. I mean in his presser yesterday he even contradicted himself on the JVR situation…when you tell two different versions of the same event in the same statement it’s pretty hard to trust anything this guy says. I think he simply played it slow hoping to get more of a return but got caught when the market went into over drive a week early.

None of us are in the room or in on the phone calls. It’s easy for us outsiders to say “nobody wanted JvR”. plehty of names were moved that made me think why would team X want that player? You know what I think happened? I think Fletcher waited till the last possible minute to get the best possible deal for JvR because Fletcher felt like he was our best possible available asset and the wait blew up in his face. Do you know why I believe this? Because Chuck Fletcher is a buffoon. I have more confidence in JvR doing his job than I do Fletcher to do his job.
- SuperSchennBros

Chuck is an idiot, but the fans are no better for thinking that JVR was gonna be some hot commodity.

Again, $3.5M cap hit at 50% retained and the cost to get a third team involved would be a 3rd-round pick (as per Chuck, as per the ROR trade).

If you were a GM for a contender, would you trade multiple top-90 picks for 33-yo, struggling, PP specialist JVR?

It'll be closer to 2 full years since he last played NHL hockey if/when he comes back. Which would be really cool for him to come back and play at some level of reasonable NHL hockey.

However, his 30 goal years are technically his peak/outlier years. He isn't normally that productive. There was a decline in his offense but as an outsider, I've always viewed him as a solid 2C. Gritty, can shut down other guys. Similar to Ryan O'Rielly. They aren't superstars but they definitely can get the job done and can be a #1 guy for a time. They need more support than say McDavid does.
- Aaron_85

He scored at a near 30 goal 70 point level for four straight seasons before his injury. The injury is what caused the decline.

No logical person thinks he will ever score 30 again. They would pleasantly surprised if he does. Mjl has to die on that hill because he never admits he was wrong. And I also have always been a coots fan
- SMS4016

I'll be happy to admit I was wrong about anything. The issue is that you haven't posted anything that shows that I'm wrong. The above is the extent of what you can do. Just empty rhetoric. This interaction has run it's course with you and I have achieved my objective. I'll now return to the status quo and you can continue calling me out to your heart's content.

Well another team would actually have to want him. Fletcher did not want to toss the player under the bus, but no one really wanted the guy. What is he supposed to do?

The gm stinks but not being able to move JVR has nothing to do w that
- Joe Nardone

That’s the thing, the guys that have insider info (not EK) suggested 3 or 4 teams…but the teams they suggested all made moves early and left him searching for a new dance partner. It’s fine to try and maximize an asset but you sure as hell can’t get caught holding it otherwise you look like he did yesterday. Incompetent. Unfortunately for him it was for full public viewing because that day is so full of media who are scrutinizing his every move (kinda like on here but more).

Without injury there's a fair few I'd take ahead of him. Matthews, McDavid, Drysaddle, Crosby, Malkin...MacK
- Aaron_85

The discussion was not if Couturier is a great 1C. That's just rhetoric. Nor was it about who it better. There are plenty of players who are better. The discussion is what level is Couturier as a player. As I stated previously, we don't know how he is going to recover. So right now we don't know. Before his injury, he was a 30 goal, 70 point Selke level #1 center and one of the top 2 way players in the league. Not one of the top players but one of the top 2 way players.

This.
Coots is a very good 2C, which is where he should have been.
And coots at 2c means you did not need Hayes and his contract
Also, a healthy NP would have potentially changed the dynamics of all this as well
- nails

The poster you quoted is incorrect. We have data to show what actually happened with Couturier before his injury. The facts are that it is Couturier that stirs the drink. He stirs it with every player he plays with as they all get better when they play with him. Including Giroux. It's takes more than one player to make a really good line but to suggest that Couturier was a secondary player, is just not an informed opinion. He played at a 1C level for four seasons before his injury. Those are actually the facts.

Thats moving the goalposts. If teams think they can take advantage of the Flyers in a trade. Wouldn't they want to trade with the Flyers? How does that fit in with the conspiracy theory?
- MJL

I think that the whole things boils down to trying to make sense of repeatedly being told one thing, then not see that but something else instead transpire. Listening to excuses, a tale of woe, or blame shifting that just doesn’t add up. Covid, the flat cap, injures, player regression, stagnation or decline, the messaging to fans over the last few years, etc.

Many other teams have navigated the challenges surrounding this era successfully. Many other teams found ways to trade players, free cap space when needed, acquire more draft capital in this draft. It beg questioning if it’s all just Fletcher, then why is he still here. If instead it’s more of because it’s the Flyers, then it lines up better. Why switch GMs if nothing better, faster or different outcome is likely?

I am not saying I can explain it, but I do understand why it’s a thought. The coincidences of negative outcomes can’t all be coincidences.

I do not like that he said they made it know he was available.
That sounds like he was waiting for offers instead of persuing a trade. Sounds passive
- nails

Question, did you know that JVR was available in a trade? The entire hockey world knew. That's how trades work in the NHL. Fletcher stated in his press conference that he received calls from two teams on JVR. He also stated that he called 17 teams trying to trade JVR.

Chuck is an idiot, but the fans are no better for thinking that JVR was gonna be some hot commodity.

Again, $3.5M cap hit at 50% retained and the cost to get a third team involved would be a 3rd-round pick (as per Chuck, as per the ROR trade).

If you were a GM for a contender, would you trade multiple top-90 picks for 33-yo, struggling, PP specialist JVR?
- Tomahawk

Fans can't read the tea leaves. The market dried up. There were too many other better players available. JVR was at the bottom of the list for offensive forward rentals. The entire league is cap strapped. Cap capital was used up. Teams weren't willing to maneuver to add JVR or the Flyers had to take a bad contract back. Which is Fletcher vetoed that, I'm in agreement with him.

Chuck is an idiot, but the fans are no better for thinking that JVR was gonna be some hot commodity.

Again, $3.5M cap hit at 50% retained and the cost to get a third team involved would be a 3rd-round pick (as per Chuck, as per the ROR trade).

If you were a GM for a contender, would you trade multiple top-90 picks for 33-yo, struggling, PP specialist JVR?
- Tomahawk

On TDL day maybe. There are a lot of stupid overpays. JVR does have a 25 goal pedigree, it’s not like they wouldn’t know what they are getting. I truly think he just played it to slow and teams that might have had interest found other alternatives. Now if losing a 3rd or 4th round pick highlights the incompetence and forces Comcast to re look at this idiot then in the end it might be a blessing if it helps lead to his demise.

I think that the whole things boils down to trying to make sense of repeatedly being told one thing, then not see that but something else instead transpire. Listening to excuses, a tale of woe, or blame shifting that just doesn’t add up. Covid, the flat cap, injures, player regression, stagnation or decline, the messaging to fans over the last few years, etc.

Many other teams have navigated the challenges surrounding this era successfully. Many other teams found ways to trade players, free cap space when needed, acquire more draft capital in this draft. It beg questioning if it’s all just Fletcher, then why is he still here. If instead it’s more of because it’s the Flyers, then it lines up better. Why switch GMs if nothing better, faster or different outcome is likely?

I am not saying I can explain it, but I do understand why it’s a thought. The coincidences of negative outcomes can’t all be coincidences.
- NC Flyers Fan

That’s the thing. When do all of these ridiculous outcomes finally catch up to him? The sooner the better, because at this point all he seems to do is make dumb decisions that further hurt the team.

I think that the whole things boils down to trying to make sense of repeatedly being told one thing, then not see that but something else instead transpire. Listening to excuses, a tale of woe, or blame shifting that just doesn’t add up. Covid, the flat cap, injures, player regression, stagnation or decline, the messaging to fans over the last few years, etc



Many other teams have navigated the challenges surrounding this era successfully. Many other teams found ways to trade players, free cap space when needed, acquire more draft capital in this draft. It beg questioning if it’s all just Fletcher, then why is he still here. If instead it’s more of because it’s the Flyers, then it lines up better. Why switch GMs if nothing better, faster or different outcome is likely?

I am not saying I can explain it, but I do understand why it’s a thought. The coincidences of negative outcomes can’t all be coincidences.
- NC Flyers Fan

Fans buy into the noise. They read all the unsubstantiated speculative articles with no legitimate sources and get fired up for things to happen. Then when it doesn't, there's major disappointment. In summation, be careful about who tells you something.
As far as the Flyers excuses, well that's an issue. They get no benefit of the doubt because of how poorly the organization is run.

The conspiracy theory that teams don't want to deal with the Flyers is nonsense. It's actually the opposite. They do want to deal with the Flyers because a lot of teams have made out well dealing with the Flyers.

Fans can't read the tea leaves. The market dried up. There were too many other better players available. JVR was at the bottom of the list for offensive forward rentals. The entire league is cap strapped. Cap capital was used up. Teams weren't willing to maneuver to add JVR or the Flyers had to take a bad contract back. Which is Fletcher vetoed that, I'm in agreement with him.
- MJL

Yeah, in years past many teams were banking cap space and JVR's prorated hit would have been digestible.

The conspiracy theory that teams don't want to deal with the Flyers is nonsense. It's actually the opposite. They do want to deal with the Flyers because a lot of teams have made out well dealing with the Flyers.
- MJL

Chuck's on speed dial #1 if I'm a rival GM.

Yeah, in years past many teams were banking cap space and JVR's prorated hit would have been digestible.
- Tomahawk

At this point you take the cap space that will come available and pray Chuck doesnt blow it on some stupid signing.

Its going to be a long road ahead just getting out from under the damage Chuck caused. Then another long road getting better.

I look at the draft capital some of these teams have accumulated......its depressing.

At this point you take the cap space that will come available and pray Chuck doesnt blow it on some stupid signing.

Its going to be a long road ahead just getting out from under the damage Chuck caused. Then another long road getting better.

I look at the draft capital some of these teams have accumulated......its depressing.
- MBFlyerfan

The issue is a lot of those teams moved players while they had a high value to add future assets. The players the Flyers have to move, don't have that value. Hayes, Ristolainen, DeAngelo, Atkinson, Ellis. Possibly Couturier. They're in a real jam. Players they can likely move for a strong value are Konecny, Provorov, Sanheim and Hart.

I look at the draft capital some of these teams have accumulated......its depressing.
- MBFlyerfan

Too "good" to properly tank yet bad enough that they have nothing of value to sell.

Flyers are truly in their own special hell.

Scott has to delegate. He has no hockey background. Everything he knows or believes about the sport. Has come from who has been influencing him.
What due diligence wasn't done with Couturier?
- MJL

It doesn’t matter if Dave Scott has a hockey background. I would do a better job and my hockey background consists of playing roller hockey and watching it.
I can see what they are doing isn’t working.
As far as Couturier the flyers should have ran the actuaries before giving him such a lengthy contract at his age.
He has played a lot of hard minutes in his career.
Can’t really fault the flyers for SC’s back issues as I believe that happened after the contract extension. I could be wrong but I am not inclined to look it up.