Too "good" to properly tank yet bad enough that they have nothing of value to sell.

Flyers are truly in their own special hell.
- Tomahawk

The high level prospects they will have in Gautheir and whomever they draft this year will be obtained not by design but by sheer dumb luck. Injuries in that regard overcame their incompetence.

Fans buy into the noise. They read all the unsubstantiated speculative articles with no legitimate sources and get fired up for things to happen. Then when it doesn't, there's major disappointment. In summation, be careful about who tells you something.
As far as the Flyers excuses, well that's an issue. They get no benefit of the doubt because of how poorly the organization is run.

The conspiracy theory that teams don't want to deal with the Flyers is nonsense. It's actually the opposite. They do want to deal with the Flyers because a lot of teams have made out well dealing with the Flyers.
- MJL

The problem of thinking that the organization can do a better job is that it isn’t clear that they believe they can do a better job. That has to happen first…admitting the path, tactics, team building and developing was bad. It’s tough to say that, keep everyone in their same jobs (besides new coaching staff) learn from it and change.

It doesn’t matter if Dave Scott has a hockey background. I would do a better job and my hockey background consists of playing roller hockey and watching it.
I can see what they are doing isn’t working.
As far as Couturier the flyers should have ran the actuaries before giving him such a lengthy contract at his age.
He has played a lot of hard minutes in his career.
Can’t really fault the flyers for SC’s back issues as I believe that happened after the contract extension. I could be wrong but I am not inclined to look it up.
- bird_dog_pa

Explain to me what the actuaries are?

Chuck is an idiot, but the fans are no better for thinking that JVR was gonna be some hot commodity.

Again, $3.5M cap hit at 50% retained and the cost to get a third team involved would be a 3rd-round pick (as per Chuck, as per the ROR trade).

If you were a GM for a contender, would you trade multiple top-90 picks for 33-yo, struggling, PP specialist JVR?
- Tomahawk

I’m not saying JvR is or would be a hot commodity at any trade deadline. It really depends on what a team is looking for in that role. We all know JvR is still very capable on the power play, that’s useful. The problem is, the think Chuck overvalued JvR and that’s why he waited for the best possible return. I think a much more savvy and respected GM moves James van Riemsdyk.

The problem of thinking that the organization can do a better job is that it isn’t clear that they believe they can do a better job. That has to happen first…admitting the path, tactics, team building and developing was bad. It’s tough to say that, keep everyone in their same jobs (besides new coaching staff) learn from it and change.
- NC Flyers Fan

The issue is that they do believe they can do a better job and that they don't need to change the people who are doing the job. It is absolutely appalling to me how in a short period of time relatively, from that press conference when they fired Hextall. When I knew that Scott was a buffoon to wanting to escalate and be a cap team. That they can get right back in it with a few moves. To what they've done between now and then. Now announcing they need to reverse course again. I'm not buying it. I'm from Missouri. Show me.

You're telling me we have to face the facts and proceed to not list a single fact. Of course there is concern and he might not be the same player. Then again, he might be. Like I said previously. We don't know how he is going to recover. We have to wait and see.
- MJL

You crack me up. Face the facts is an expression. If you want want some, here you go:
1) He is 30 and has had a serious injury the past 2 seasons
2) He has had a great career but if he returns next season, it will be his 13th. That's a lot of mileage and the body wears down, especially for those who play such a physical sport.
3) His last 30 goal, 70 point season was 5 years ago. Do you really think he will produce those numbers again even if he recovers?

Explain to me what the actuaries are?
- MJL

It’s not for me to explain something that any reasonable person could sumise how it would work in a hockey management scenario.
I’m betting someone can make a valid summation here.

You crack me up. Face the facts is an expression. If you want want some, here you go:
1) He is 30 and has had a serious injury the past 2 seasons
2) He has had a great career but if he returns next season, it will be his 13th. That's a lot of mileage and the body wears down, especially for those who play such a physical sport.
3) His last 30 goal, 70 point season was 5 years ago. Do you really think he will produce those numbers again even if he recovers?
- Don Nachbaur

Normally when an expression of face the facts is used. It is followed by some actual facts but that's just me. None of that means that Couturier won't return strong. We don't know. You're posting as if it is a guarantee that Couturier won't recover and return to his high level of play.

As far as fact #3. You aren't considering the shortened seasons due to the pandemic. He was on a similar pace in both of those seasons.

It’s not for me to explain something that any reasonable person could sumise how it would work in a hockey management scenario.
I’m betting someone can make a valid summation here.
- bird_dog_pa

Okay. I'll say this. There is always risk to signing any player to a long term contract. More so for an older player. Yet, every team does it at some point. Why? Don't they look at the actuaries?

Tanner activated

We unquestionably overrate Sean Couturier on this board. He has a job to do and he does it well. Playing on a line with Claude Giroux, Giroux was the straw that stirred the drink for that line. Giroux is the straw that stirs the drink for his current line. I would argue taking Giroux off center and placing him on wing to support Couturier hurt all the other lines for years, especially the depth down the middle.
- SuperSchennBros

Don’t be a hater… we helped extend g career for Ottawa by moving him to wing. Lmao. But you are absolutely correct in this analysis. It made no sense to move g to wing. It definitely weakened the lines down the middle.

I’m not saying JvR is or would be a hot commodity at any trade deadline. It really depends on what a team is looking for in that role. We all know JvR is still very capable on the power play, that’s useful. The problem is, the think Chuck overvalued JvR and that’s why he waited for the best possible return. I think a much more savvy and respected GM moves James van Riemsdyk.
- SuperSchennBros

Listening to NHL Radio for the past week, I am of the impression the rest of the league views JVR as nothing more than a power play specialist. With that in mind, did the clown coaching the team do his idiot GM any favors by not using JVR on the 1st PP unit, thus further devaluing a player in the eyes of potential suitors?

Deservedly, Fletcher is taking the blame, but Tortorella and his "my way or no way" attitude isn't doing anything to help the cause either. Both should be kicked to the curb, but I can't imagine anyone in this dysfunctional organization has the intestinal fortitude to do so.

Last summer, being more aggressive was not going to be good for the Philadelphia Flyers. Maybe in the short run it makes me look better, but we don't want band-aids anymore.
-Chuck Fletcher

Hmmm .. so extending Risto to a 5 year $25M contract after seeing him play last season was not a band-aid? How about trading a 2nd, 3rd and 4th round pick to get DeAngelo and then signing him to a 2 year $10m contract; that was not a band-aid either? So now Fletcher decides no more band-aids and to rebuild after its clear the Flyers will most likely be picking outside of the top 5 picks in one of the best drafts in years? In fact, the Flyers only have 1 pick in the first 2 rounds in one of the deepest drafts in years! I really don't care that the Flyers did not get anything for JVR, after all he sucks and any functioning GM would know to stay away from him even with half his salary being covered. But to not be ready to take advantage of THIS draft is inexcusable and I call on all Flyer fans going to the games to chant "Fire Fletcher" until they can't shout any more!

Look forward to Bill’s next post…just no way to polish the huge pile of horse sh*t this once proud organization has been over the past few years. I’m sure he’s as frustrated and bewildered as most of us are.

Listening to NHL Radio for the past week, I am of the impression the rest of the league views JVR as nothing more than a power play specialist. With that in mind, did the clown coaching the team do his idiot GM any favors by not using JVR on the 1st PP unit, thus further devaluing a player in the eyes of potential suitors?

Deservedly, Fletcher is taking the blame, but Tortorella and his "my way or no way" attitude isn't doing anything to help the cause either. Both should be kicked to the curb, but I can't imagine anyone in this dysfunctional organization has the intestinal fortitude to do so.
- BaronVonShiznit

I've said it before. A lot of Flyers fans love Tortorella and think he is doing a great job. He isn't doing the team any favors in terms of how he coaches for the future. He's coaching for himself and has no issue throwing others under the bus for the state of the Flyers. Not that he should bear the overwhelming majority of the blame because he is basically new here. He's pretty much a high level well paid interim coach with an archaic view of hockey that is not in touch with the modern day NHL. He's doing what Mike Yeo should've been able to do last year.

It doesn’t matter if Dave Scott has a hockey background. I would do a better job and my hockey background consists of playing roller hockey and watching it.
I can see what they are doing isn’t working.
As far as Couturier the flyers should have ran the actuaries before giving him such a lengthy contract at his age.
He has played a lot of hard minutes in his career.
Can’t really fault the flyers for SC’s back issues as I believe that happened after the contract extension. I could be wrong but I am not inclined to look it up.
- bird_dog_pa

Forget the back issues. He had many other health issues. He was breaking down. Like you said many hard minutes. He was gonna be finishing his 11th year in league when new deal kicked in. Giving 8 year term means 19 year career. With all those hard minutes. Made zero sense to give that term. If it had been a 3 to 5 year term contract I can see. But he wasn’t gonna take that because someone was likely to give more term. Someone desperate. Well no one ever more desperate that philly. So there’s that.

Explain to me what the actuaries are?
- MJL

Age
Injury history
Hard minutes played in career
Probable future time missed
Naturally regression of skill
Etc etc etc

Age
Injury history
Hard minutes played in career
Probable future time missed
Naturally regression of skill
Etc etc etc
- SMS4016

Ahhhh forget all that. “ON PACE” for 30 goals 70 points 🤷‍♂️

Definitely worth the risk. What am I thinking. What could go wrong. I mean not like he could suffer some type new injury too.


Yeah this is a sound idea. A great idea in fact

Before Couturier's current back injury. He had only missed 56 out of a possible 748 regular season games in 10 seasons. There was no injury history that would've put up a red light to resigning Couturier to a new contract.

Age
Injury history
Hard minutes played in career
Probable future time missed
Naturally regression of skill
Etc etc etc
- SMS4016

Yes, and versus length of contract and average production of players the same age going forward into the contracts.
There are always outliers but already with SC the flyers most likely won’t get what they are paying for.
That’s not a knock on Couturier. That’s a knock on the flyers long term planning and risk tolerance.

Yes, and versus length of contract and average production of players the same age going forward into the contracts.
There are always outliers but already with SC the flyers most likely won’t get what they are paying for.
That’s not a knock on Couturier. That’s a knock on the flyers long term planning and risk tolerance.
- bird_dog_pa

Most likely. Sean Couturier's cap hit ranks 65th in the league currently. As more players are re-signed that ranking will go down ever further. In a few years even further down yet. If he can come back healthy, it will not be difficult for the Flyers to get what they're paying for. If he doesn't, then they won't. That simple.

If teams were to use actuaries and play the odds, they would never sign a player of Couturier's age to a long term contract. Yet they routinely do.