See and I saw Kaner muff badly a pass in the zone which led to a 2-1 -- sure he skated his butt off trying in vain to catch up - it was almost as if he was afraid Gallant would beat him up for plays like that.

Backchecking only counts if you disrupt the play --- just sayin'.

If only competence were based solely on the number of draft picks acquired…
- Instamatic

You know, its amazing to me how hard it is for some to comprehend that a tear down and rebuild is done.

WTF do you want him to do at this stage, keep Kane, Toews, Debrincat, Dach, Hagel, Bovquist, etc. have no draft picks and no cap room and execute a rebuild????

That's what Stan did for 7 years since 2015

It’s time for our bi-annual Columbus scr*wing. 2015 it was Saad for Anisimov, 2017 it was Panarin for Saad, 2019 we got the year off, 2021 Boqvist and two firsts for Jones.

2023 they’ll get the #1 pick, and we’ll get the consolation. Hopefully Kyle has Jarmo’s number blocked.
- ObeseOprah

Jarmo' the only person in the NHL sad to see Stan gone. Im pretty sure KD won't be repeating Stumbo's mistakes.

You know, its amazing to me how hard it is for some to comprehend that a tear down and rebuild is done.

WTF do you want him to do at this stage, keep Kane, Toews, Debrincat, Dach, Hagel, Bovquist, etc. have no draft picks and no cap room and execute a rebuild????

That's what Stan did for 7 years since 2015
- vabeachbear

A bit apples and oranges as the Hawks still were potentially chasing a Cup for a year or two after and didn't really face the hard truth and commit to a rebuild til what 2020?

Then Stan and Co. did an about face the following season abandoning the rebuild.

To your point, KD has torn it down and the rebuild is in it's initial stages. This is the BOD so it'll always be lost on some here and expectations won't match reality.

A bit apples and oranges as the Hawks still were potentially chasing a Cup for a year or two after and didn't really face the hard truth and commit to a rebuild til what 2020?

Then Stan and Co. did an about face the following season abandoning the rebuild.

To your point, KD has torn it down and the rebuild is in it's initial stages. This is the BOD so it'll always be lost on some here and expectations won't match reality.
- HawkintheD

As a follow-up....

The Hawks finished the 2016-2017 season with the best record in the Western Conference. Doesn't seem reasonable to say (as I've seen on this joint) that the rebuild should've started earlier than that. One can say a rebuild should've begun after Nashville took their lunch money, but that would've been extremely ballsy. The TDL in the 2017-2018 season is when I believe they should've started.

Since the Detroit rebuild is somehow the Gold Standard here, I'll note that the Wings finished with fewer points than the Hawks in '18. They also had 79 points in '17. They're all the way up to 23rd place in the league this year. Maybe we should add them to the Edmonton/Buffalo class of Forever Rebuilds, and understand why a team near the end of a great run (like Washington and Pittsburgh now, and the Hawks then) might not be so eager to burn it down?

See and I saw Kaner muff badly a pass in the zone which led to a 2-1 -- sure he skated his butt off trying in vain to catch up - it was almost as if he was afraid Gallant would beat him up for plays like that.

Backchecking only counts if you disrupt the play --- just sayin'.
- SC116

There are two different types of mistakes, physical and mental. Kane flubbed puck either because he moved his stick incorrectly or there was a bad patch of ice. Any coach is going to let that go. Mental mistakes, trying to beat three defenders single handedly, trying to force a pass through traffic, passing blindly in the defensive zone are what drives a coach crazy. Kane (frank)ed up, no doubt, but it was an honest mistake.

As a follow-up....

The Hawks finished the 2016-2017 season with the best record in the Western Conference. Doesn't seem reasonable to say (as I've seen on this joint) that the rebuild should've started earlier than that. One can say a rebuild should've begun after Nashville took their lunch money, but that would've been extremely ballsy. The TDL in the 2017-2018 season is when I believe they should've started.

Since the Detroit rebuild is somehow the Gold Standard here, I'll note that the Wings finished with fewer points than the Hawks in '18. They also had 79 points in '17. They're all the way up to 23rd place in the league this year. Maybe we should add them to the Edmonton/Buffalo class of Forever Rebuilds, and understand why a team near the end of a great run (like Washington and Pittsburgh now, and the Hawks then) might not be so eager to burn it down?
- mohel

Look Chief...go peddle your rationed responses on another site! No place for logic here pallie!

As a follow-up....

The Hawks finished the 2016-2017 season with the best record in the Western Conference. Doesn't seem reasonable to say (as I've seen on this joint) that the rebuild should've started earlier than that. One can say a rebuild should've begun after Nashville took their lunch money, but that would've been extremely ballsy. The TDL in the 2017-2018 season is when I believe they should've started.

Since the Detroit rebuild is somehow the Gold Standard here, I'll note that the Wings finished with fewer points than the Hawks in '18. They also had 79 points in '17. They're all the way up to 23rd place in the league this year. Maybe we should add them to the Edmonton/Buffalo class of Forever Rebuilds, and understand why a team near the end of a great run (like Washington and Pittsburgh now, and the Hawks then) might not be so eager to burn it down?
- mohel

Also...

You know, its amazing to me how hard it is for some to comprehend that a tear down and rebuild is done.

WTF do you want him to do at this stage, keep Kane, Toews, Debrincat, Dach, Hagel, Bovquist, etc. have no draft picks and no cap room and execute a rebuild????

That's what Stan did for 7 years since 2015
- vabeachbear

He's just jealous, how many GMs who are bottom half of the road teams would love to be able do what we are doing. KD has every angle to make this team better, salary, draft picks, high first round draft picks. I think if the Owners are hands off and let KD steer this ship we are going to be in very good shape sooner than later. Hate to say it but 5 years will be here before you know it.

Look Chief...go peddle your rationed responses on another site! No place for logic here pallie!
- HawkintheD

Agreed. The BOD is not the place for rational, well thought-out reasoning.

via GIPHY

As a follow-up....

The Hawks finished the 2016-2017 season with the best record in the Western Conference. Doesn't seem reasonable to say (as I've seen on this joint) that the rebuild should've started earlier than that. One can say a rebuild should've begun after Nashville took their lunch money, but that would've been extremely ballsy. The TDL in the 2017-2018 season is when I believe they should've started.

Since the Detroit rebuild is somehow the Gold Standard here, I'll note that the Wings finished with fewer points than the Hawks in '18. They also had 79 points in '17. They're all the way up to 23rd place in the league this year. Maybe we should add them to the Edmonton/Buffalo class of Forever Rebuilds, and understand why a team near the end of a great run (like Washington and Pittsburgh now, and the Hawks then) might not be so eager to burn it down?
- mohel

This is exactly why this rebuild is going to take longer than most on here expect. With Bedard, and without Bedard (even longer) and why I truly hope they lose every single game because the short gain of winning games negates the long term goal of landing a future cornerstone of the next core.....they need to ensure they are picking in the top 3. Truly, what young kid on this team maybe outside of Reichel do I care if they improve these last few games? Will they even be on this roster when they start to push for a playoff spot and a perennial cup contender?

Also...
- HawkintheD

I think Yzerman is a good GM, but I don't hold Detroit as some gold standard. What have they accomplished there? I don't get that coveting of them by many on here......

There are two different types of mistakes, physical and mental. Kane flubbed puck either because he moved his stick incorrectly or there was a bad patch of ice. Any coach is going to let that go. Mental mistakes, trying to beat three defenders single handedly, trying to force a pass through traffic, passing blindly in the defensive zone are what drives a coach crazy. Kane (frank)ed up, no doubt, but it was an honest mistake.
- paulr

Well said....the only other variable is effort. Giving up on a play is likely more mental but that's a choice that leads to get your @ss stapled to the bench for long periods of time. OR taking a HORRIBLE penalty that costs your team.

https://twitter.com/CRoum...C14Faz9Qry99wQIRo1rg&s=01

Some updates of our kiddies in the minors

Sounds very optimistic

As a follow-up....

The Hawks finished the 2016-2017 season with the best record in the Western Conference. Doesn't seem reasonable to say (as I've seen on this joint) that the rebuild should've started earlier than that. One can say a rebuild should've begun after Nashville took their lunch money, but that would've been extremely ballsy. The TDL in the 2017-2018 season is when I believe they should've started.

Since the Detroit rebuild is somehow the Gold Standard here, I'll note that the Wings finished with fewer points than the Hawks in '18. They also had 79 points in '17. They're all the way up to 23rd place in the league this year. Maybe we should add them to the Edmonton/Buffalo class of Forever Rebuilds, and understand why a team near the end of a great run (like Washington and Pittsburgh now, and the Hawks then) might not be so eager to burn it down?
- mohel

We were done the year Hossa's contract reached $1M. He was never going to play for that.

https://twitter.com/2ndCi...BIQsupuoMT1k6EtinimQ&s=01

1 thing for sure LR likes his dmen to have some size, i imagine Mitchell will be taking a seat again

https://twitter.com/2ndCityHockey/status/1633875858715987968?t=kaBIQsupuoMT1k6EtinimQ&s=01

1 thing for sure LR likes his dmen to have some size, i imagine Mitchell will be taking a seat again
- BetweenTheDots

Not necessarily, I’m sure Richardson wants the best talent to be in the lineup. No idea if Mitchell translates to that guy or another smaller defenseman shows up, but if Richardson puts a big guy in the lineup over a smaller better player that is a big problem. Smaller Dmen have a place in the NHL provided they aren’t completely incompetent defensively.

https://twitter.com/2ndCityHockey/status/1633875858715987968?t=kaBIQsupuoMT1k6EtinimQ&s=01

1 thing for sure LR likes his dmen to have some size, i imagine Mitchell will be taking a seat again
- BetweenTheDots

Isn't Roos called up because Englund is injured?

And yes Mitchell will probably sit. Was not encouraged by his performance at all against Detroit, and literally got rag dolled a couple of times.

This is exactly why this rebuild is going to take longer than most on here expect. With Bedard, and without Bedard (even longer) and why I truly hope they lose every single game because the short gain of winning games negates the long term goal of landing a future cornerstone of the next core.....they need to ensure they are picking in the top 3. Truly, what young kid on this team maybe outside of Reichel do I care if they improve these last few games? Will they even be on this roster when they start to push for a playoff spot and a perennial cup contender?
- SteveRain

With or without Bedard, Cup actual contention for a cup is never guaranteed. Someone like Bedard makes them more competitive, more entertaining and maybe puts them in the playoff picture more quickly, but let history be your guide.

'03-'05 Pens draft Fleury, Malkin, Crosby.....win cup in 09 --- 6 years from start.
'04-'06 WSH draft Ovechkin, Backstrom.....win cup in '18 ----14 years from start
'06-'07 Hawks draft Toews, Kane......win cup in '10 --- 4 years from start
'08-'11 TB drafts Stamkos, Hedman, Kucherov...lose cup in '15 ----7 years.
'11-'13 COL drafts Landeskog, MacKinnon......win cup in '22 ---11 years
'13-'14 EDM drafts McDavid, Draisaitl (plus mult. other #1's, etc).....still waiting
BUF .....still waiting
TOR......still waiting
NJ .......still waiting (maybe closest of all recent high drafters)

It takes a heck of a lot more than just a couple of high first rounders, and even if you have them it guarantees nothing. Hawks were the quickest with a 4 year turnaround.

Not necessarily, I’m sure Richardson wants the best talent to be in the lineup. No idea if Mitchell translates to that guy or another smaller defenseman shows up, but if Richardson puts a big guy in the lineup over a smaller better player that is a big problem. Smaller Dmen have a place in the NHL provided they aren’t completely incompetent defensively.
- paulr

Then why is Caleb Jones not only dressing regularly, but pulling 20+ minutes a night?

Then why is Caleb Jones not only dressing regularly, but pulling 20+ minutes a night?
- TheTrob

Same reason that J Johnson when he was here, Tinordi, and even recently Englund played. They are fillers as the prospects get experience. That is KD's way, Montreal is more aggressive in playing their young D. There is no right way, but it is KD's plan.

Also remember this was the teardown year, to try and be as bad as possible. If C. Jones is signed next year, I see him being a 6th/7th defenseman.

With or without Bedard, Cup actual contention for a cup is never guaranteed. Someone like Bedard makes them more competitive, more entertaining and maybe puts them in the playoff picture more quickly, but let history be your guide.

'03-'05 Pens draft Fleury, Malkin, Crosby.....win cup in 09 --- 6 years from start.
'04-'06 WSH draft Ovechkin, Backstrom.....win cup in '18 ----14 years from start
'06-'07 Hawks draft Toews, Kane......win cup in '10 --- 4 years from start
'08-'11 TB drafts Stamkos, Hedman, Kucherov...lose cup in '15 ----7 years.
'11-'13 COL drafts Landeskog, MacKinnon......win cup in '22 ---11 years
'13-'14 EDM drafts McDavid, Draisaitl (plus mult. other #1's, etc).....still waiting
BUF .....still waiting
TOR......still waiting
NJ .......still waiting (maybe closest of all recent high drafters)

It takes a heck of a lot more than just a couple of high first rounders, and even if you have them it guarantees nothing. Hawks were the quickest with a 4 year turnaround.
- TheTrob

You are right, a draft pick only route would likely take an eternity with no guarantee of putting a consistent winner on the ice. But having significant cap space has considerable value too along with perhaps a willingness to take the plunge on a key UFA or 2 if they come along. What if an Auston Mathews or Sebastian Aho or P-L Dubois or Elias Lindholm suddenly became available?

I think Yzerman is a good GM, but I don't hold Detroit as some gold standard. What have they accomplished there? I don't get that coveting of them by many on here......
- SteveRain

Agree. I think SY is a good GM as well and that the deification of his stewardship in both Detroit and Tampa is puzzling.

Posters lauded his ability to "sign guys for less" in Tampa. It's not like he was performing magic when TBL hadn't won one Cup let alone two. Guys got good deals but when they start winning Cups, doesn't take rocket science to figure the cost of doing business just went up.

He's drafted some good players in DET but it's not like the Yzerplan has borne any fruit. I do give him credit for recognizing his team wasn't ready to compete and punting on this season so he regained some lottery tickets with 1st round picks in a deep draft.

Same reason that J Johnson when he was here, Tinordi, and even recently Englund played. They are fillers as the prospects get experience. That is KD's way, Montreal is more aggressive in playing their young D. There is no right way, but it is KD's plan.

Also remember this was the teardown year, to try and be as bad as possible. If C. Jones is signed next year, I see him being a 6th/7th defenseman.
- LAHawk

LA, I hope you are correct. There is a fine line when it comes to young D. If as you speculate, the intention is to let prospects gain experience before throwing them into the NHL game, then having Mitchell sit in the pressbox as opposed to playing in Rockford makes little sense. Is the message that practicing at the NHL level is better for him than playing in the AHL. Sure, Johnson, Englund, Tinordi are all place holders, but at some point you need to bring the youngsters in and let them learn to play with the big boys. I've seen it both ways, guys brought up early and had their confidence ruined and never play to perceived potential. I have also seen guys brought up early and thrown to the wolves who go on to improve and excel.

Personally, I lean towards the latter. NHL is a much better game overall than the AHL in so many aspects. Let the kids come up and learn at full speed against and with players who have more talent overall.

Agree. I think SY is a good GM as well and that the deification of his stewardship in both Detroit and Tampa is puzzling.

Posters lauded his ability to "sign guys for less" in Tampa. It's not like he was performing magic when TBL hadn't won one Cup let alone two. Guys got good deals but when they start winning Cups, doesn't take rocket science to figure the cost of doing business just went up.

He's drafted some good players in DET but it's not like the Yzerplan has borne any fruit. I do give him credit for recognizing his team wasn't ready to compete and punting on this season so he regained some lottery tickets with 1st round picks in a deep draft.
- HawkintheD

This is only Year 4 for Yzerman.

The team he inherited was so bad that in Year 1 they posted the worst points percentage in the cap era.

He makes more good moves than bad moves but is by no means infallible. It would have been helpful if they had gotten any lotto luck or drafted high in a historically deep draft.

The concerns from most logical DET fans is that they bottomed out and didn't get any superstar talent in the process.

Patience and luck are the two biggest keys to a successful rebuild imo.