Circling back to the when should the Hawks have started the rebuild, it had to happen once Hossa retired. So many underestimate what he brought to the team, and there was no chance they were going to find another winger like that anytime soon.

The question I have about an earlier rebuild is how would they move the Toews and Kane contracts? Those were marriage pacts, until expiration do us part. And the Seabrook contract was pretty much unmovable as well, probably even more so. That's the fly in the ointment here. Even the more movable core players, they had full NTC's, iirc. It would have been ugly, if it was indeed possible.

Ahhh, the ultimate question. Cap space only lasts so long. SO, if you draft a Bedard, Nazar, Korchinski, etc. and they all pan out about the same time, they are on rookie deals and you have space to add veterans. You add a Matthews, Aho, etc. too early in the process, then you no longer have cap space when second/third contracts come along for your young stars. It takes a good mix to make it all work with the hard cap.
- TheTrob

That's very true but at the same time, they already said Rinzel is a project and when you see how KD is spacing all his draft capital over the following years, you keep the franchise players and if by some miracle can continue to draft well in the top 2 rounds over the next 5 years you create layers or waves of players entering the organization.

The sustainability side to all this is also a key variable....you need your horses to be good for long period of times and not just fall off a cliff.

Again, just feel we are in a great spot....tons of cap room, tons of picks the next 3 years, do the same thing this summer...find some guys who you can sign to 1 year deals and then flip them at the deadline for either prospects or picks. If we have a bunch of D prospects ready to make the next step....either before the season or at the end of the season....retain money on Murphy and flip him.

The patience to all this will be a rollercoaster but again.....its the long haul here.
- SteveRain

Since they already are retaining on Mc Cabe for 2 more years after this, i doubt KD also retains on murphy leaving only one spot for retention next year at the TDL. Hopefully next year at the TDL he can retain on T. Johnson, and if Murphy was also retained that leaves you no other moves to weaponize the Hawks cap space.

Since they already are retaining on Mc Cabe for 2 more years after this, i doubt KD also retains on murphy leaving only one spot for retention next year at the TDL. Hopefully next year at the TDL he can retain on T. Johnson, and if Murphy was also retained that leaves you nothing.
- LAHawk

Very true, i imagine we will see a few free agents on 1 year deals as well next season, that would tie his flexibility up.

Well if the past has taught us anything....you also can't have a "core" of 8 guys in a hard cap world. That is likely the largest difference as to why Pittsburgh has been sustained success longer than the Hawks have.....they have cycled through a ton of supplement players to Crosby, Malkin, and Letang.....it also doesn't hurt outside of Letang, the 2 major horses have held constant in their careers as they have gotten older.
- SteveRain

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head about building a cap era team. The core for the future is three or four tops and then keeping the term of the support or depth players to a minimum and limiting movement clauses, if possible, to only the core players. Then moving core players out for the highest return, before their value has evaporated. Then of course avoiding mortgaging the future trying to win when it’s obvious the window has closed. It would take a GM with huge boys. But look at Tampa, their core players are pretty much valueless. They have no high draft picks for years and few high end prospects. Toronto is following the same path. Along with Pittsburgh, Boston seems to be the model to follow.

Greatest GM ever...........to not win a cup
- vabeachbear

David Poile holds that title

Since they already are retaining on Mc Cabe for 2 more years after this, i doubt KD also retains on murphy leaving only one spot for retention next year at the TDL. Hopefully next year at the TDL he can retain on T. Johnson, and if Murphy was also retained that leaves you no other moves to weaponize the Hawks cap space.
- LAHawk

Tyler Johnson will be an UFA after next year....so Kane falls off, and then you have McCabe. You could retain on Murphy and Johnson and then have Johnson fall off after next year. In a cap crunch for a team, Murphy at 2.4 vs 4.4 is likely more attractive and nets you a higher return. Murphy is 1 year longer than McCabe so the math to me makes sense. Murphy has a 10 team NO list so you can still navigate this with 2/3 of the league.

They also should have room to eat bad money and get returns similar to what Ottawa paid them to take on 22.

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head about building a cap era team. The core for the future is three or four tops and then keeping the term of the support or depth players to a minimum and limiting movement clauses, if possible, to only the core players. Then moving core players out for the highest return, before their value has evaporated. Then of course avoiding mortgaging the future trying to win when it’s obvious the window has closed. It would take a GM with huge boys. But look at Tampa, their core players are pretty much valueless. They have no high draft picks for years and few high end prospects. Toronto is following the same path. Along with Pittsburgh, Boston seems to be the model to follow.
- paulr

Good call on Boston.....somehow escaped my mind.

100% agree with you....I have no issue giving a true core piece in his 2nd deal while still young a NTC but I think what we have learned in the dealings with 19/88 team needs some flexibility in the last year of that said deal to move him IF it warrants it. The days of giving up full NMCs, term, and AAV need to be over..Very curious to see if GMs in UFA periods start to pivot away from those.

Very curious to see what happens up north if they lose to Tampa in round 1. They only have 9 million in cap space with 13 guys signed. Figure somebody off that roster is going to need to be dealt to make it all work. They at least have a 1st round pick the next 2 years.....Tampa is just completely all in and better maximize their cup runs and pray their top guys 1. stay healthy 2. perform or else they'll have a drastic drop off.

New Blog: https://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=120982

Tyler Johnson will be an UFA after next year....so Kane falls off, and then you have McCabe. You could retain on Murphy and Johnson and then have Johnson fall off after next year. In a cap crunch for a team, Murphy at 2.4 vs 4.4 is likely more attractive and nets you a higher return. Murphy is 1 year longer than McCabe so the math to me makes sense. Murphy has a 10 team NO list so you can still navigate this with 2/3 of the league.

They also should have room to eat bad money and get returns similar to what Ottawa paid them to take on 22.
- SteveRain

Eating money is different than retaining. Why I said retaining on T. Johnson next year because it will only be until the end of the year. Also retaining on Murphy stops you from being a third party broker and getting a free draft choice if the Hawks are able to be part of a brokered deal.

I get your obsession with moving Murphy but I highly doubt KD moves him with money retained. Best scenario for the Hawks is if he becomes a third pairing defenseman, but then again you have Zaitsev for one more who is equally bad.

Trob- we actually have to go back further for the Hawks, 2002- Keith, 2003- Seabrook/Crawford, 2004- Bolland, Bickell and Brouwer, 2005- Hammer. So I think it should be 8 years. I'm not confident we have quality skill pieces until Reichel/Comesso in 2020, so that makes us in year 3?
- Popsghostly

I was just going off off teams that drafted in the top 4. Keith 2nd round, Seabrook was #14, all the rest were lower rounds. The teams I listed all had multiple picks in the top 4 as part of their "rebuild".

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head about building a cap era team. The core for the future is three or four tops and then keeping the term of the support or depth players to a minimum and limiting movement clauses, if possible, to only the core players. Then moving core players out for the highest return, before their value has evaporated. Then of course avoiding mortgaging the future trying to win when it’s obvious the window has closed. It would take a GM with huge boys. But look at Tampa, their core players are pretty much valueless. They have no high draft picks for years and few high end prospects. Toronto is following the same path. Along with Pittsburgh, Boston seems to be the model to follow.
- paulr

Boston and Pittsburgh have been great examples of teams with sustained success. Helped in part by their stars having maintained their levels of play as they age. I'm gonna give the nod to PIT, as a bit more consistent, but tons of that is a testament to how good Crosby, Malkin and Letang remained. Lets not lose sight of the fact that BOS last won the cup in 2011, 12 years ago, and missed the playoffs for a couple of seasons after they lost to the Hawks in '13.

I'll take the 3 cups the Hawks and PIT have won over The 1 win 2 losses of BOS. Can't ignore TB either with 3 appearances and 2 wins over the last 8 years, though some will discount the "Covid years"

You know, its amazing to me how hard it is for some to comprehend that a tear down and rebuild is done.

WTF do you want him to do at this stage, keep Kane, Toews, Debrincat, Dach, Hagel, Bovquist, etc. have no draft picks and no cap room and execute a rebuild????

That's what Stan did for 7 years since 2015
- vabeachbear

You say that with bold confidence, as if strip-mining a club of all its NHL-caliber, young talent (sometimes for shockingly little in return) has ever been attempted during the cap era. No sir, this is a radical experiment. It will be quite interesting to see this “baseball”-style, teardown-and-pray approach play out.