And one more thing .. while you and Bill salivate over meaningless metrics, Frost in 63 games this year has 12 goals and 30 points, a -15 while winning only 44% of his faceoffs. But hey, you keep pumping up those pts/60 stats ... maybe someday someone will actually give a crap.
- jd250
And one more thing, you sure told me. I can understand you not giving a crap since you're not aware of the situation and it had to be explained to you what points per 60 tells us and how Frost's and Cates point totals were not equal. After attempting to challenge others without the facts.
Just for those who didn't read it earlier. Here is Bill's response to you that echoed what myself and other informed posters such as Tomahawk have been trying to explain to you.
"
Yesterday @ 10:07 AM ET
Yet you feel Morgan Frost does have the puck and distribution skills to play center. Comparing the two of them in the most rudimentary but none-the-less most important way:
Morgan Frost
63 games, 12 goals, 18 assists, 30 points, -15 and 140 total NHL games played
Noah Cates:
64 games, 10 goals, 17 assists, 27 points, +6, and 64 total NHL games played
Oh, and BTW in Morgan's prior 55 games he had 5 goals, 11 assists, 16 points and was a -11. Frost does have a 44% face off win percentage this year, beating Cates' 39%, so I guess that means something.
Can you explain this apparent discrepancy? I mean if Frost has the skills to play center, why again doesn't Cates? Seems to me comparing the two players, Cates is way ahead of Frost at center and he never even played center before this season.
- jd250
Bill's response below
Still banging that drum, huh? OK, let's start with this.
1) Frost has been involved directly in 54 high-danger scoring chances for the Flyers this season. On the Flyers, he's behind only Konecny (55, albeit in 11 fewer games due to injury). Cates is sixth among the forwards with 40.
2) In terms of puck distribution, let's just look at the last five games. Among the Flyers' total 58 high-danger chances in that span, Frost had assist opportunities on 10 and his own goal opportunity on four; 24.1 percent team wide directly involved Frost. Only frequent linemate Tippett (nine goal opportunities, seven assist opportunities, 27.6 percent) was in the middle of a higher-volume of chances. Cates has been involved on the setup end of three and the shooting end of three (10.3 percent).
Now, with this being said, Frost only has 3 points (1g, 2a) to show for the five-game sampling as does Tippett (2g, 1a). Cates has one point (1g, 0a) and it came as a result of a nice deflection on a play that was not judged to be high-danger.
Broken out over the whole season, based on high-danger chances with direct involvement, Frost should be at about 30 to 33 assists. The Flyers' struggles to finish chances have pulled his assist totals down quite a bit based on NHL averages of points to scoring chances. Frost himself isn't finishing chances frequently enough, but we're talking assists here.
Cates is a very different type of player than Frost, even with them both playing center but the eye test alone suggests that Frost is the significantly better distributor, and the numbers back it up. Cates is, however, the better 200-foot player. Cates gets tougher opposition, which also has to be factored in.
3) For the season, Frost has created 23 rebound opportunities; tied with Hayes for the most on the Flyers. Cates suffers here because he's a low-volume shooter when he plays center. He's created 14.
4) For a 10-game period in late October to mid November, Tortorella was deploying Frost a mere 11:23 per game (18th on the team, and less than the likes of Lukas Sedlak, Max Willman, a full two minutes less per game than Zack MacEwen, but about 45 seconds per game more than Wade Allison).
During this stretch, Frost's most frequent linemates were Nic Deslauriers, MacEwen, Tanner Laczynski and, after his waiver claim, Bellows. He did see a little bit of time with JVR, Tippett or Farabee but not much relative to his norms thereafter.
This segment of the season was Frost's most unproductive (0g, 1a) and overlaps the game he was scratched in his hometown Toronto with his parents in the stands. A player is responsible, first and foremost, for his own play. But it's also the coach's responsibility to put players in position to succeed. Torts was absolutely NOT doing that during this stretch. In fact, he was putting Frost in position to fail and, at the same time, saying things like "people are telling me this guy is an offense creator but I'm not seeing it."
I'll add to that, though, that from December onwards, Frost's usage and linemates have been much more appropriate deployment. Over the Flyers last 36 games, he's third in the team in scoring (one point ahead of Tippett, 24 to 23). That's OK -- far from great -- but it's the start of getting on the right track.
I like Cates a lot, too. I like him as a 3C. I'd still like him even better as a winger and F1 who can be moved around the top 9 as needed. But if you are seriously trying to say Cates and Frost are comparable as offense creators at center, you are way off-base."
