Rico, even with Toews and Kane, if the Hawks would of resigned Havlat instead of signing Hossa, how many cups do they win?
- LAHawk

If they don't resign Havlat and instead do sign Hossa, like you mention, do they win any cups without Kane?

If they don't resign Havlat and instead do sign Hossa, like you mention, do they win any cups without Kane?
- Mr Ricochet

This is all like what came 1st the chicken or the egg thinking

Good question. What if St. Louis drafts Toews #1 instead of Eric Johnson? We can play what if’s all day.

I really don't think Kane was considered a generational talent either? Many had him tabbed as to small to succeed in the NHL

I also want to point out Kane and Toews were players that became part of the franchise at the end of the rebuild not the beginning
- BetweenTheDots

Doesn't matter what Kane was considered predraft he ended up a franchise altering player and was the most skilled player and highest points per game player on 3 cup teams and they don't get him if they don't draft 1st in 2007.

Doesn't matter what Kane was considered predraft he ended up a franchise altering player and was the most skilled player and highest points per game player on 3 cup teams and they don't get him if they don't draft 1st in 2007.
- Mr Ricochet

It's too bad you just can't enjoy what's happening what's in front of us, and having faith things will work out the best.

Good question. What if St. Louis drafts Toews #1 instead of Eric Johnson? We can play what if’s all day.
- LAHawk

Or if Keith was drafted by another team. Or if Savard wasn’t fired and replaced by Quenneville.

Would there be anyone say mid 1st that might be worth packaging TB 1st and our 2nd or one of the other 2nds? Just a thought....
- Matt_Foleys_bro

I think it depends on who is available. In past I’ve seen it cost a 3rd round pick to swap 1st rounders and move up in the draft. I’m not sure I’d give up a 2nd this year. It wouldn’t surprise me to see KD use 1-2 of those 2nd round picks in a trade. But drafting 6 prospects in the first 2 round of a deep draft is also enticing.

Maybe I missed something, how many Stanley Cups has Edmonton won since they drafted the last generational player?
- scottak

None, and I'd add they had a few more overall #1's too. I'd also add the Hawk's got a franchise altering player #1 overall in 2007 and they won 3 cups.

This ain't hoops where 1 or 2 players win you a title but a player like Kane or McDavid can and does get you over the top when you have a very good team. Just ask VAN or CAR.

Good question. What if St. Louis drafts Toews #1 instead of Eric Johnson? We can play what if’s all day.
- LAHawk

OK, I'll bow out....... But leave with the thought that it's probable the Hawks don't win 3 cups not having the 1st overall in 2007, this great stretch of hockey we're enjoying will be long forgotten in a very short time, most agree there are 3 players who would go #1 overall in most drafts that are available 2023, same with 2 players 2024 and I hope they don't win 1 damn game the rest of the season.

And yes, a lotta stars have to align to win cups and for me that starts with a top 3 pick in the 2023 draft.

OK, I'll bow out....... But leave with the thought that it's probable the Hawks don't win 3 cups not having the 1st overall in 2007, this great stretch of hockey we're enjoying will be long forgotten in a very short time, most agree there are 3 players who would go #1 overall in most drafts that are available 2023, same with 2 players 2024 and I hope they don't win 1 damn game the rest of the season.

And yes, a lotta stars have to align to win cups and for me that starts with a top 3 pick in the 2023 draft.
- Mr Ricochet

I here you Rico but none of us can control what the future has in store for us, however i do believe is you try to control it you'll cause more damage than good. I'm just going to enjoy and embrace what's happening in front of me especially LR being a great coach and watch these kids develop with the faith that KD knows what he's doing.

None, and I'd add they had a few more overall #1's too. I'd also add the Hawk's got a franchise altering player #1 overall in 2007 and they won 3 cups.

This ain't hoops where 1 or 2 players win you a title but a player like Kane or McDavid can and does get you over the top when you have a very good team. Just ask VAN or CAR.
- Mr Ricochet

The Cup teams were built over about five years of good drafting (‘02 - ‘07), successful trades (Sharp, Oduya, etc.) and key free agent signings (Hossa et al). A good plan with a lot of luck made the magic happen. Most likely we don’t get a “generational talent” in this year’s draft - but hopefully it will be one where we can point to and say it was where one, if not several, foundational players were acquired that lead to the team being successful again.

Edit: and an old P.o.S. owner died and left his more progressive son to take over was also a big plus.

It's too bad you just can't enjoy what's happening what's in front of us, and having faith things will work out the best.
- BetweenTheDots

A copy and paste of one of my posts before you posted this.

Can't tell you how much I enjoyed watching Katchouk show IQ to read the play at the end boards to at just the right time swoop and steal the puck and take a quick look over his shoulder to see Anderson weak side doorstep then show super quick hands/feet to get to past the endline to feed Anderson for a tap in and ice the game. Same with the win v Boston and the dominating win v a 7-2-1 last 10 OTT.

But I'd trade all that for a 1% better shot at Bedard, Fantilli, Michkov or even Carlsson.

And what makes it nicer for me is to flatter myself pointing out, and posting so, Katchouk seemed to have flipped a switch a few games before he started scoring points and goals. Kid was skating with a purpose and confidence, reading the play, 1st to pucks, head up. A tell tale sign of a switch about to be flipped ..... Love the challenge of watching Jrs, or even NHL, games to identify players on the come or simply improving.

A copy and paste of one of my posts before you posted this.

Can't tell you how much I enjoyed watching Katchouk show IQ to read the play at the end boards to at just the right time swoop and steal the puck and take a quick look over his shoulder to see Anderson weak side doorstep then show super quick hands/feet to get to past the endline to feed Anderson for a tap in and ice the game. Same with the win v Boston and the dominating win v a 7-2-1 last 10 OTT.

But I'd trade all that for a 1% better shot at Bedard, Fantilli, Michkov or even Carlsson.

And what makes it nicer for me is to flatter myself pointing out, and posting so, Katchouk seemed to have flipped a switch a few games before he started scoring points and goals. Kid was skating with a purpose and confidence, reading the play, 1st to pucks, head up. A tell tale sign of a switch about to be flipped ..... Love the challenge of watching Jrs, or even NHL, games to identify players on the come or simply improving.
- Mr Ricochet

You did, i also want to point out that the Kings didn't have a 1st overall pick and they won 2 SCs. And like you said about Kstchouk hes playing great and i believe he was just an after thought from the Bolts when they traded him.

I mean all this talk about generational talent, what if it's the generational talent that keeps you from winning a cup, does anyone really see the Oilers winning the Cup this year?

No way Pittsburgh wins those cups without Malkin.

My apologies I've had s few beverages but i can't just help thinking to myself if Bedardv goes to the Blue Jackets what a (frank)ing waste, it'd be like McDavid playing in Edmonton. Great for fans but really won't accomplish anything meaningful

The Cup teams were built over about five years of good drafting (‘02 - ‘07), successful trades (Sharp, Versteg, etc.) and key free agent signings (Hossa et al). A good plan with a lot of luck made the magic happen. Perhaps we don’t get a generational talent in this year’s draft - but hopefully it will be one where we can point to and say it was where one, if not several, foundational players were acquired that lead to the team being successful again.
- Chief4Feathers

Really really good post, Chief. The whole thing and every point made........ Think I joined HB in 2010 so I've read the board a long time. I posted soon after KD took over that I notice the board talking about jrs, NCAA and minor pro players and how much I liked that.

Started following the USHL in 2005 and was astonished how good the hockey was, and it's eons better since then, and love seeing folks discover jrs even if it's just You Tube clips like we're seeing from fans posting since KD took over.

To me the NHL is just the tip of the iceberg in the hockey world and IMO thru the rebuild many are realizing that too.

As you point out so so so many things go into building a cup franchise over many yrs and thru many transactions and we're on the ground floor right now. It's exciting and scary too.

No doubt the Hawks will have some great players to choose from this yr no matter where they draft but my hope is it's a top 3 pick. To my eye it looks like 2 franchise altering players, maybe 4 with Carlsson, and Bedard being generational.

Really really good post, Chief. The whole thing and every point made........ Think I joined HB in 2010 so I've read the board a long time. I posted soon after KD took over that I notice the board talking about jrs, NCAA and minor pro players and how much I liked that.

Started following the USHL in 2005 and was astonished how good the hockey was, and it's eons better since then, and love seeing folks discover jrs even if it's just You Tube clips like we're seeing from fans posting since KD took over.

To me the NHL is just the tip of the iceberg in the hockey world and IMO thru the rebuild many are realizing that too.

As you point out so so so many things go into building a cup franchise over many yrs and thru many transactions and we're on the ground floor right now. It's exciting and scary too.

No doubt the Hawks will have some great players to choose from this yr no matter where they draft but my hope is it's a top 3 pick. To my eye it looks like 2 franchise altering players, maybe 4 with Carlsson, and Bedard being generational.
- Mr Ricochet

Thanks. What makes this a different time for me than in prior moments in Blackhawks history - is that I have more hope, and hence, resulting interest in the draft picks, cap space, trade deadline moves, etc., because we’ve seen that a Cup wining team can be assembled here in Chicago. Decades of disappointment left me completely cynical at almost every move and transaction. Now? I’m more cautiously optimistic that something good might actually happen.

I mean all this talk about generational talent, what if it's the generational talent that keeps you from winning a cup, does anyone really see the Oilers winning the Cup this year?

No way Pittsburgh wins those cups without Malkin.
- BetweenTheDots

See Chief's fantastic post. So much has to go right over so may yrs and transactions to win a cup. ....... Add in needing 16 playoff wins to be the champ that's why it's the toughest championship to win in sport.

Malkin may not be generational but IMO he's franchise altering. There is a difference.

See Chief's fantastic post. So much has to go right over so may yrs and transactions to win a cup. ....... Add in needing 16 playoff wins to be the champ that's why it's the toughest championship to win in sport.

Malkin may not be generational but IMO he's franchise altering. There is a difference.
- Mr Ricochet

What do you believe is a generational talent and who do you think are generational players?

Thanks. What makes this a different time for me than in prior moments in Blackhawks history - is that I have more hope, and hence, resulting interest in the draft picks, cap space, trade deadline moves, etc., because we’ve seen that a Cup wining team can be assembled here in Chicago. Decades of disappointment left me completely cynical at almost every move and transaction. Now? I’m more cautiously optimistic that something good might actually happen.
- Chief4Feathers

Yea man, enjoy the ride. The recent great play that's fun to watch is part of it, for me the scary part, but indeed a part of it.

IMO, even though a small sample size, the KD and LR era has given an objective fan a reason to be optimistic even though they've only taken a few steps in a thousand step journey.

What do you believe is a generational talent and who do you think are generational players?
- paulr

Of course that's subjective and the definition is arguable. Can you have more than 1 player per generation be generational? ....... McDavid and Crosby are generational. Makar has a chance. Bedard sure looks to be.... Kane, OV, Malkin would be franchise altering IMO. Just off the top of my pickled mind.

You?

See Chief's fantastic post. So much has to go right over so may yrs and transactions to win a cup. ....... Add in needing 16 playoff wins to be the champ that's why it's the toughest championship to win in sport.

Malkin may not be generational but IMO he's franchise altering. There is a difference.
- Mr Ricochet

I agree Rico, i think we are two fans coming from two directions, seems to me you're more worried about not getting that generational player and I'm more of a flower child if it's meant to be its meant to be, can't worry about the things i can't control

What do you believe is a generational talent and who do you think are generational players?
- paulr

Don't trolls worry more about what fans say and how they say it?

Just saying, mr so concerned about what we say and how we say it.

You're Canadian so you obviously know way more about hockey than us simple folks in the States

Watching CLB at ANA. Thought I heard them say 13 of CLB's next 15 are on the road!! Can that be right?

I'm sure I'm in the minority but if the Hawks don't get Bedard I hope CLB does. Nice little arena and the surrounding area is awesome. 10 story parking garage 500 ft from the front door and eateries/bars/shops on the grounds.

Watching CLB at ANA. Thought I heard them say 13 of CLB's next 15 are on the road!! Can that be right?

I'm sure I'm in the minority but if the Hawks don't get Bedard I hope CLB does. Nice little arena and the surrounding area is awesome. 10 story parking garage 500 ft from the front door and eateries/bars/shops on the grounds.
- Mr Ricochet

3-3 so weird hoping for a 3 point game