We’re both spitballing here. Lidstrom would be in York’s position being the younger paired with past prime Coffey. I would suspect he played RD at some time. A team with Lidstrom paired with either Coffey, Murphy or Rafelski would almost certainly play 2 D men on the PP with such elite offensive firepower on the back end. I would say mid career on Lidstrom was almost exclusively at LD but early on I would wager he played some RD.
- Minnyhock

Well first in bold, you basically repeated what I just said…

I’m not spitballing. I’m from the Detroit area. At the time Murphy, Coffey, Rafelski, Mathieu Schneider or whomever you can think of who played on the power play for Detroit, the wings were always stacked with future hall of famers. So it never meant that everyone always played together.

Well first in bold, you basically repeated what I just said…

I’m not spitballing. I’m from the Detroit area. At the time Murphy, Coffey, Rafelski, Mathieu Schneider or whomever you can think of who played on the power play for Detroit, the wings were always stacked with future hall of famers. So it never meant that everyone always played together.
- SuperSchennBros

You said earlier that you’re almost positive that Lidstrom never saw RD. Then you acknowledged that I could be right when I said he likely did. You being from Motown is irrelevant. You’re either accurate or not. You don’t like the word spitballing. Speculation then.

You said earlier that you’re almost positive that Lidstrom never saw RD. Then you acknowledged that I could be right when I said he likely did. You being from Motown is irrelevant. You’re either accurate or not. You don’t like the word spitballing. Speculation then.
- Minnyhock

No, you’re spitballing. I said I’m almost positive because it’s impossible for anyone to see every single game of a player’s long career. It isn’t my fault I have to explain to you the basics of how a power play sets up.

I remember the argument. I just don't believe players should have anything handed to them, they need to earn their ice time and earn the chance to play with the top players on the team. At the start of the year, Frost was not doing that, was not making enough plays consistently enough. As the season has gone on he has improved, there is no doubt about it. He is using his legs more and getting into plays more often. Earlier in the season he always seemed to be behind the play, deferring to others. Now FRost is being much more assertive, driving offense, and playing with much more confidence. Now I know you will say he always did that but the fact is he didn't, and Torts said as much multiple times earlier in the season. So Frost is showing he belongs in the NHL .. this is a good thing for the Flyers. In the end however, Tippet still has more offensive upside IMO.
- jd250

Good to see that you still subscribe to the Flyers archaic and asinine methods of player development. Make the player earn instead of placing him in a position to succeed. Yet, once Frost was put in a better spot, with better line mates, he started to produce. Wo could've predicted that? LOL.
Frost has been doing the same things all season long and last season when he played with Cates and Tippett. You fall back on the same fantasies of Frost being behind the play, deferring to others. That's imagination on your part. All we have to do is look at the game tapes. You're entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

Frost is showing that he belongs in the NHL . You mean you don't see him as an AHL player anymore. Now I'm going to give you an actual fact. The fact that you labeled Frost an AHL player earlier in the year. Along with the endless list of other ridiculous and absurd opinions on players. Disqualifies you from having any credibility to assess Frost or any other player.

We’re both spitballing here. Lidstrom would be in York’s position being the younger paired with past prime Coffey. I would suspect he played RD at some time. A team with Lidstrom paired with either Coffey, Murphy or Rafelski would almost certainly play 2 D men on the PP with such elite offensive firepower on the back end. I would say mid career on Lidstrom was exclusively at LD but early on I would wager he played some RD.

ADD: Selfish? I doubt it. I don’t know how much defensive regression Coffey had by then. Maybe Lidstrom was a better option. Players were different then. Coffey would have done what he was asked. IMO.
- Minnyhock

I use to love watching Detroit play when Coffey and Lidstrom were both on the team. Especially their PP. They did not play an umbrella. Coffey and Lidstrom were both out at the same time. I can't speak on if Lidstrom ever played the right side or not. I will say this though. That Provorov doesn't or won't play the right side is not a valid criticism. There have been many, many top defenseman in the league that only play one side.

Good to see that you still subscribe to the Flyers archaic and asinine methods of player development. Make the player earn instead of placing him in a position to succeed. Yet, once Frost was put in a better spot, with better line mates, he started to produce. Wo could've predicted that? LOL.
Frost has been doing the same things all season long and last season when he played with Cates and Tippett. You fall back on the same fantasies of Frost being behind the play, deferring to others. That's imagination on your part. All we have to do is look at the game tapes. You're entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

Frost is showing that he belongs in the NHL . You mean you don't see him as an AHL player anymore. Now I'm going to give you an actual fact. The fact that you labeled Frost an AHL player earlier in the year. Disqualifies you from having any credibility to assess Frost or any other player.
- MJL

I actually believe that Torts putting Foerster and BL with Frost was a small TIP of the hat to Frost. Frost playing well enough to break in TF and BL. You can make a case that Torts puts combinations together with Frost and TIP in mind, who will fit there first

I use to love watching Detroit play when Coffey and Lidstrom were both on the team. Especially their PP. They did not play an umbrella. Coffey and Lidstrom were both out at the same time. I can't speak on if Lidstrom ever played the right side or not. I will say this though. That Provorov doesn't or won't play the right side is not a valid criticism. There have been many, many top defenseman in the league that only play one side.
- MJL

This is a better explanation. I’ll say this. Lidstrom and Niklas Kronwall for example never played together. They both played left side, so it’s fair to say that’s where they were most comfortable, so that’s where they were most likely set up, separately. Late in Lidstrom’s career I believe Detroit signed Ian White who played with him and that was strictly so Lidstrom could play left side.

As for PP set up, which I could very well be wrong about, wasn’t apart of my argument. It doesn’t matter because my argument was about even strength.

Provorov getting beaten up for only playing left side is a silly argument.

- MBFlyerfan

Great Documentary/Movie

Provorov is a selfish player who takes no responsibility for the team's struggles, despite him getting the most ice time, and who thinks he's much better than he actually is.

Thankfully for the Flyers he'll be gone soon.

Provorov is a selfish player who takes no responsibility for the team's struggles, despite him getting the most ice time, and who thinks he's much better than he actually is.

Thankfully for the Flyers he'll be gone soon.
- Feanor

You need to express yourself better. Don’t sit on the fence, tell us how you really feel.

Good to see that you still subscribe to the Flyers archaic and asinine methods of player development. Make the player earn instead of placing him in a position to succeed. Yet, once Frost was put in a better spot, with better line mates, he started to produce. Wo could've predicted that? LOL.
Frost has been doing the same things all season long and last season when he played with Cates and Tippett. You fall back on the same fantasies of Frost being behind the play, deferring to others. That's imagination on your part. All we have to do is look at the game tapes. You're entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

Frost is showing that he belongs in the NHL . You mean you don't see him as an AHL player anymore. Now I'm going to give you an actual fact. The fact that you labeled Frost an AHL player earlier in the year. Along with the endless list of other ridiculous and absurd opinions on players. Disqualifies you from having any credibility to assess Frost or any other player.
- MJL

You entertain me!

How large of an ego can someone have to actually think they can determine who is qualified and who is disqualified from having an opinion on a comment forum? As you say, can't make it up!

In the end, it doesn't matter what you and I think. You can call Torts archaic even though he is approaching 700 career NHL coahing wins, and I can call Frost an AHL player even though he has proven that he can play at the NHL level. In the end, I still don't believe Frost will be part of the solution in Philly and will most likely be traded within a few seasons. Where he ends up and what he becomes is still uncertain. We'll have to come back to this discussion next season.

I just go where the facts lead me.

https://www.nhl.com/stats...sMinus&page=0&pageSize=50

If you don't like +/- cause of all the empty net goals, check out the 5on5 defensive results (GA/60) of the Flyers defensemen over the past 150 games.

https://www.naturalstattr...ines=single&draftteam=ALL

I agree with this. Frosty has been more assertive and playing with more confidence in the games I've seen. It's a shame he is on this terrible team as it is tough to judge what he'd be like on a contending team. I still don't see him as a top 6 player on a good team, but hopefully he will keep growing and be a factor for the Flyers in the future.
- Don Nachbaur

Well said. He wants to look at game tape now, what a comic he is. He can go look at all the game tape he can find from earlier in the season, good luck finding Frost anywhere on it. Its not just me saying it, Torts repeated it several times also. But hey, I guess anyone who has a critical opinion of Frost is just archaic!

I just go where the facts lead me.

https://www.nhl.com/stats...sMinus&page=0&pageSize=50

If you don't like +/- cause of all the empty net goals, check out the 5on5 defensive results (GA/60) of the Flyers defensemen over the past 150 games.

https://www.naturalstattr...ines=single&draftteam=ALL
- Feanor

It only took ten years but I’m looking forward to Travis Sanheim taking over. He’s so awesome! He can switch sides and everything.

Provorov is a selfish player who takes no responsibility for the team's struggles, despite him getting the most ice time, and who thinks he's much better than he actually is.

Thankfully for the Flyers he'll be gone soon.
- Feanor

plus he is homophobic, islamophobic, xenophobic, antiphobic, and phobiaphobic

Reading through some of the comments, and this is what came to mind....

plus he is homophobic, islamophobic, xenophobic, antiphobic, and phobiaphobic
- corduroy

I heard he's also arachnophobic too.

I heard he's also arachnophobic too.
- hockeylover

I heard he's also arachnophobic too.
- hockeylover

Fake news -- him and spiderman are best buds

Fake news -- him and spiderman are best buds
- corduroy

It's actually AntMan he's best buds with.

like what I read on him, seems the Flyers will get a very good player either way
- wcorvette

Thanks for providing that vid.
As the only amateur commentator here, these breakdowns help me to understand the subtle aspects of the game. I haven't played in the Olympics, coached a SCF, or drafted Gretzky, so my experiences are threadbare compared to many.

I actually have a question about Frost and if anyone knows of where such a vid, having him as the topic, is, let me know, please.

Availability is the best ability. (See C-phone coverage.)
Is there any source for discovering the proper 'sizing' of players to determine durability? How about according to position?

Reflexes and mental acuity while under physical stress. likely play a part in this. The ability to anticipate, prepare and dissipate blows, being aware of your corpus's size and resiliency, adjusting for other folks' sizes, determining locations of relevant obstacles, and avoiding impacts, combined?
And paying attention to your coach's wants?
Maybe you can last like Breier.
It only took a stick in the eye to cancel Pronger's career. SO accidents can happen but the normal knocking arounds are what I'm asking about here.
Tim Kerr got worn down but Bergeron isn't.
Can we adapt the game to suit a lesser physical specimen?

So many here are ready.

Provorov is a selfish player who takes no responsibility for the team's struggles, despite him getting the most ice time, and who thinks he's much better than he actually is.

Thankfully for the Flyers he'll be gone soon.
- Feanor

where are you getting this info? I've seen comments, in the blogosphere, that suggest that maybe he doesnt get along with his teammates or that he's high maintenance or a prima donna...but I've never seen anything definitive. His views on homosexuality aside I feel like the character attacks are just an excuse for him just not being as good as the Flyers expected him to be. Who cares if he's a Richard if he plays great? There's no denying that he's a dedicated, hard working player. He shows up every season in great shape. He plays hard and never misses a game. The problem is that his level of play hasn't lived up to expectations. To me he plays a bit of a passive game. He's basically solid. Vanilla. I'd like him to take charge and play a more selfish game.

where are you getting this info? I've seen comments, in the blogosphere, that suggest that maybe he doesnt get along with his teammates or that he's high maintenance or a prima donna...but I've never seen anything definitive. His views on homosexuality aside I feel like the character attacks are just an excuse for him just not being as good as the Flyers expected him to be. Who cares if he's a Richard if he plays great? There's no denying that he's a dedicated, hard working player. He shows up every season in great shape. He plays hard and never misses a game. The problem is that his level of play hasn't lived up to expectations. To me he plays a bit of a passive game. He's basically solid. Vanilla. I'd like him to take charge and play a more selfish game.
- Dkos

There are no narratives here..,

You entertain me!

How large of an ego can someone have to actually think they can determine who is qualified and who is disqualified from having an opinion on a comment forum? As you say, can't make it up!


- jd250

I don't determine that. Your posting history determines that. I just point it out.

In the end, it doesn't matter what you and I think. You can call Torts archaic even though he is approaching 700 career NHL coahing wins, and I can call Frost an AHL player even though he has proven that he can play at the NHL level. In the end, I still don't believe Frost will be part of the solution in Philly and will most likely be traded within a few seasons. Where he ends up and what he becomes is still uncertain. We'll have to come back to this discussion next season.
- jd250

A coach can currently be archaic and still have had success in the past. The game has past him by. He was very successful in the past but he's now just an average coach.
We come back to every discussion and they all turn out the same way.

Well said. He wants to look at game tape now, what a comic he is. He can go look at all the game tape he can find from earlier in the season, good luck finding Frost anywhere on it. Its not just me saying it, Torts repeated it several times also. But hey, I guess anyone who has a critical opinion of Frost is just archaic!
- jd250

Critical opinions are fine of any player as long as they're accurate and credible. Calling Frost an AHL player is not credible or accurate. You compound that here by saying Frost won't be found if we would go back and look at game tapes. I also understand Tortorella's rhetoric and don't pay much attention to it. I'm also not someone who is easily manipulated by what a coach says, and I don't go around parroting everything he says.