I really wish Torts would play Frost with Tipper and Cates on LW the rest of the year since the games are meaningless. That could be a really good line for next season.

When at this point has Frost played on a line with MacEwen and Nick D? Someone please let me know.
- SuperSchennBros

Sure... here you go:

Oct 23 vs. SJ: On 4th line in 1st and 2nd periods, 8:01 TOI through two perioods. Moved up and played a lot in the third period because TK and Hayes were benched throughout the 3rd pd. Had two point blank chances in 3rd pd. Neither went in.
Oct. 27 vs. FLA: 7:43 TOI, 12 shifts
Oct. 29 vs. CAR: 11:41 TOI (had a 2nd pd breakaway but didn't score. Did get a few 3rd pd shifts with Laughton)
Nov. 1 @ NYR: 12:24 TOI (did see some PP time and one OT shift with Tippett)
Nov 2 @ TOR: healthy scratch with his parents in the stands
Nov 5 @ OTT: 10:04 TOI, 14 shifts (MacEwen scored a goal; Frost was part of the forechecking sequence but did not get an assist)
Nov 8 vs STL: 10:01 TOI
Nov 10 @ CBJ: 8:37 TOI -- there's a back story to this, but this was the beginning of a turning point because Hockey Ops wanted Frost playing more than this with more skill around him.
Nov 12 vs. OTT: 10:43 TOI (still on 4th line but did get back on the power play)
Nov 13 vs DAL: Started on the 4th line, moved up in latter 2nd pd onward. Finished with 12:53 TOI.

10 game stretch -- mostly 4th line in nine, healthy scratched in one.

I feel like Frost is doing what he did last season on a line with Cates and Tippett. The games don’t mean anything anymore and now he’s emerging as our best player. It’s the exact reason why people felt Cates was guaranteed a roster pot, even before Torts knew who he was.

Frost is a very talented player but I’m hoping his current play carries over with much bigger steps from start to finish for next season.

Let the hate rain down!
- SuperSchennBros

Torts pretty much said, in the post game presser last night, that Frost doesn't perform when playing in more difficult situations (better opposition, more important games).

Yeah, well, two years ago Frost missed the entire season due a shoulder injury (suffered in the second period of his second game) that required surgery. He also had a bout with Covid while rehabbing. Year one was a lost year. Year two was Lappy and then Mike Yeo getting Frost caught up -- he finished 2021-22 about where he would likely have been at the end of 2020-21 had it been a healthy year and he hadn't missed so much time due to the injury and Covid. Now, this season, Rocky Thompson (who is the one who actually works, hands-on, with the forwards) more so than Torts is the one who got Frost caught up the rest of the way. Some credit also goes to Danny Briere who did some one-on-one work with Frost in the training camp environment before focusing on front office work. Danny was encouraging. Yeo was tough-love but encouraging with positive feedback and belief in the player. Rocky similar to Yeo in the critique-encouragement style.

Torts' method, and it's not wrong, just different is to continually raise the bar and say Frost hasn't reached it. That's OK. It's working.

But I do wish he'd acknowledge that Frost leads the team in scoring since New Year's, is tied for second in scoring on the team over the last 47 games (two more points than Tippett, whose offensive growth gets praised six ways to Sunday) and, all year since camp, has really been working hard to push himself out of his comfort zone in assorted ways. It's not just a recent thing.
- bmeltzer

completely agree, I will admit, I have been and continue to be a Frost supporter. I agree Torts looks at his players with high end ability and he constantly raises the bar, he did the same thing with Sanheim recently. The playing favorites can be aggravating at times, but my guess, at some point Frost tips the hat to Torts and gives him credit for helping him hit a new level.

When Frost V Tippett are compared, I get how fans see Tip having more impact, I think they miss the impact of STYLE of a player.

Tip is big and fast and thrives one on one, he is doing well when he is scoring or hustling. Frosts success is through creating, he is going to need more from his linemates to stand out, then they will notice the little plays he makes and how he slows the play down. The good news, Tip and Frost are two real good pieces, if they both take a step forward next season, get better support, they will continue to impact the game in a positive way. Both of them at 25-27, in their prime, should be fun to watch.

I really wish Torts would play Frost with Tipper and Cates on LW the rest of the year since the games are meaningless. That could be a really good line for next season.
- Flybynight88

Torts pretty much said, in the post game presser last night, that Frost doesn't perform when playing in more difficult situations (better opposition, more important games).
- Dkos

Tortorella is full of it. I posted on the other page that Frost has 15 points in 13 games played against playoff teams. I even listed the teams.

Ugh.. We've always been terrible at tanking.. No top pick for us..
- Hextall271

Players and coaches (to some extent) do not tank. Their desire to play and win should not be corrupted. It's almost impossible to recover from the slippery slope of encouraged losing.

Tanking, per se, is a GM function, and our previous GM clearly failed with that too.

Personally, I do not support any kind of tanking, as it goes against every kind of the athletic grain. Especially, in the age of lottery, when tanking does not guarantee high picks. High picks do not guarantee success- Oilers and Sabers are the living proof.
There are some other necessary ingredients for the success.

Players and coaches (to some extent) do not tank. Their desire to play and win should not be corrupted It's almost impossible to recover from the slippery slope of encouraged losing.

Tanking, per se, is a GM function, and our previous GM clearly failed with that too.

Personally, I do not support any kind of tanking, as it goes against every kind of the athletic grain. Especially, in the age of lottery, when tanking does not guarantee high picks. High picks do not guarantee success- Oilers and Sabers are the living proof.
There are some other necessary ingredients for the success.
- missingmike

I'm in complete agreement with you. Although I have a different definition of tanking than most.

I'm in complete agreement with you. Although I have a different definition of tanking than most.
- MJL

Do you mind sharing your definition?
For me it's just purposeful losing for a reason(s). Reasons may be different and there may be more than one.

Torts pretty much said, in the post game presser last night, that Frost doesn't perform when playing in more difficult situations (better opposition, more important games).
- Dkos

How can the coach make these comments when he's been saying this team's not making the playoffs for like 2 and a half months? Isn't every game important for a player on an expiring RFA deal trying to prove to a coach that he belongs on the team? Akin to his toilet seat comments and sitting Frost in Toronto in front of family. Just more unnecessary mind games.

Do you mind sharing your definition?
For me it's just purposeful losing for a reason(s). Reasons may be different and there may be more than one.
- missingmike

trading everyone for picks, keeping just a few vets or young players who fit the timeline

trading everyone for picks, keeping just a few vets or young players who fit the timeline
- wcorvette

These are clearly GM functions. But this is "How", not "What", and I ask for "what".

Do you mind sharing your definition?
For me it's just purposeful losing for a reason(s). Reasons may be different and there may be more than one.
- missingmike

I don't believe that making moves on the roster such as trading older players for future assets when you're not a good team is tanking. Tanking is purposely losing and doing everything you can to lose. For example when Pittsburgh was tanking to get Mario Lemieux. Down the stretch they sent their current goaltender, who was playing well down to the AHL and recalled a stiff to play in goal. Giving the excuse that they wanted to take a look at the player in the NHL. The player wasn't remotely close to being an NHL level goaltender. They did it for the sole reason of purposely trying to lose.

Tanking to me is all on the GM not the coach or players

These are clearly GM functions. But this is "How", not "What", and I ask for "what".
- missingmike

you are thinking there is a way for a coach to tank? Guess they could sit players

Tanking to me is all on the GM not the coach or players
- Flybynight88

I agree. I do not want players or coaches that try to lose games. The org has to take winning away as an option if you are to truly tank.

Sure... here you go:

Oct 23 vs. SJ: On 4th line in 1st and 2nd periods, 8:01 TOI through two perioods. Moved up and played a lot in the third period because TK and Hayes were benched throughout the 3rd pd. Had two point blank chances in 3rd pd. Neither went in.
Oct. 27 vs. FLA: 7:43 TOI, 12 shifts
Oct. 29 vs. CAR: 11:41 TOI (had a 2nd pd breakaway but didn't score. Did get a few 3rd pd shifts with Laughton)
Nov. 1 @ NYR: 12:24 TOI (did see some PP time and one OT shift with Tippett)
Nov 2 @ TOR: healthy scratch with his parents in the stands
Nov 5 @ OTT: 10:04 TOI, 14 shifts (MacEwen scored a goal; Frost was part of the forechecking sequence but did not get an assist)
Nov 8 vs STL: 10:01 TOI
Nov 10 @ CBJ: 8:37 TOI -- there's a back story to this, but this was the beginning of a turning point because Hockey Ops wanted Frost playing more than this with more skill around him.
Nov 12 vs. OTT: 10:43 TOI (still on 4th line but did get back on the power play)
Nov 13 vs DAL: Started on the 4th line, moved up in latter 2nd pd onward. Finished with 12:53 TOI.

10 game stretch -- mostly 4th line in nine, healthy scratched in one.
- bmeltzer

Oh wow, so ten games out of 72? So really 38 points in 62 games? I guess we’ll ignore this post below that I wrote.

Ok…

A couple of issues with what I’m reading. First Zac MacEwen started the season in the minors and when he did get called up, he produced reasonably well.

Second. Why is it an issue that Frost get talent to play with but if Provorov doesn’t have a defensive partner for the majority of his career, all Provorov’s issues are just on him?
- SuperSchennBros

Has there been consideration of multi point games, much like last night? If he has a multiple point game, that means he had more zero point games.

Do you mind sharing your definition?
For me it's just purposeful losing for a reason(s). Reasons may be different and there may be more than one.
- missingmike

I know their isn't much crossover between hockey and basketball fans but if you follow the Sixers, Sam Hinkie wrote the book on tanking.

Tortorella is full of it. I posted on the other page that Frost has 15 points in 13 games played against playoff teams. I even listed the teams.
- MJL

Torts said something like, it’s fine that he’s scoring goals. We expect him to do that, but this was a game between two bad teams with no chance of getting into the playoffs. We have some games coming up against better teams that need wins. He needs to play well in those games for us to decide if he’ll be with us next year.

I guess he’s trying to motivate Frost? Trying to keep him going at a high level? IDK. Do players even pay attention to what the coach says in a post game interview?

Sure... here you go:

Oct 23 vs. SJ: On 4th line in 1st and 2nd periods, 8:01 TOI through two perioods. Moved up and played a lot in the third period because TK and Hayes were benched throughout the 3rd pd. Had two point blank chances in 3rd pd. Neither went in.
Oct. 27 vs. FLA: 7:43 TOI, 12 shifts
Oct. 29 vs. CAR: 11:41 TOI (had a 2nd pd breakaway but didn't score. Did get a few 3rd pd shifts with Laughton)
Nov. 1 @ NYR: 12:24 TOI (did see some PP time and one OT shift with Tippett)
Nov 2 @ TOR: healthy scratch with his parents in the stands
Nov 5 @ OTT: 10:04 TOI, 14 shifts (MacEwen scored a goal; Frost was part of the forechecking sequence but did not get an assist)
Nov 8 vs STL: 10:01 TOI
Nov 10 @ CBJ: 8:37 TOI -- there's a back story to this, but this was the beginning of a turning point because Hockey Ops wanted Frost playing more than this with more skill around him.
Nov 12 vs. OTT: 10:43 TOI (still on 4th line but did get back on the power play)
Nov 13 vs DAL: Started on the 4th line, moved up in latter 2nd pd onward. Finished with 12:53 TOI.

10 game stretch -- mostly 4th line in nine, healthy scratched in one.
- bmeltzer

Bill, you and your historical facts attempting to rebuff a preferred narrative... come on, man!!!

The Flyers have made their own bed over the last decade or so. If you are going to put a team on the ice that has some good talent but not a lot of elite talent you should expect to finish in the middle of the pack.

Non elite players on longterm deals is killing this team right now. Couple that with mediocre drafting and development and here we are.

I think they have the goalie and a few forwards for the longterm. Long way to go.

Torts said something like, it’s fine that he’s scoring goals. We expect him to do that, but this was a game between two bad teams with no chance of getting into the playoffs. We have some games coming up against better teams that need wins. He needs to play well in those games for us to decide if he’ll be with us next year.

I guess he’s trying to motivate Frost? Trying to keep him going at a high level? IDK. Do players even pay attention to what the coach says in a post game interview?
- Dkos

He is trying to motivate Frost but he is also being an bumhole. Frost has already shown that he should be with the team next year. To anyone with a clue.

Oh wow, so ten games out of 72? So really 38 points in 62 games? I guess we’ll ignore this post below that I wrote.



Has there been consideration of multi point games, much like last night? If he has a multiple point game, that means he had more zero point games.
- SuperSchennBros

The fact that he played at least 10 games with plugs cost him a shot at a 50 point season. People were drooling that all star kevin Hayes is approaching his career high of 56 points

Linemates matter

How about the 15 points he has put up in 13 games against Minn, Car (2), Vegas, TBL (2), Sea, LA, Wpg(2), NYR, Col and NJD. All playoff teams. Does any of that count?
-MJL

I never said that it didn't. All I stated was last night Frost scored two goals against a bad team. This was in reponse to the the question of whether Frost was just having a late season surge as he did last season. Its a legitmate question to see how the entire team does against the remaining good teams with something to play for coming up, in fact Torts said this last night also, that he wants to see how the team plays against those teams. The evaluation of Frost and the rest of the young players is still on going.

That was a ridiculous coaching blunder by Tortorella. One of many.
- MJL

When does your NHL coaching career begin ? I can't wait.