Welcome to Flyerbuzz today…

Extra! Extra! Read all about it! We have got debate, intrigue and out-of-this-world hockey talk. It’s the present day Noah Cates at center versus the hypothetical alternate reality of Cates on the wing. Which development path is best? Which do you personally value more—offense or defense? Is being an good scorer better than being an excellent defender? How many points scored outweighs goals prevented? What would losing this season’s best defensive center due to the rest of the lineup? Is there value in gaining the ability to play multiple forward positions? Is the theory of the wing hypothesis actually guaranteed to be better than our reality?

Next up we discuss Frost—from toilet seat comparisons to concrete offensive threat—his whole season revolution. From diehard supporters to longtime critics, Frost is a surprisingly hot topic. We talk about all that and so much more! Stay with us you beauties!

you said his defensive impact as a center on a bad team is a skewed perception.

but you're not willing to apply that same logic to his play at LW all of 16 games last season on an even worse team.
- black_francis

You are incorrect. What I said is that if you want to compare Cates as a Selke level forward. Looking at his defensive impact relative to his teammates on a bad team is not the way to do it. Comparing his defensive impact to the top Selke level forwards in the league is the correct way.

You have failed to grasp the logic. Comparing Cates as a winger last season to Cates as a center this season is comparing the same player in two different positions. The above clearly can't be applied. The fact that the team was worse last season, makes the argument that Cates could be better as a winger, even stronger.

Welcome to Flyerbuzz today…

Extra! Extra! Read all about it! We have got debate, intrigue and out-of-this-world hockey talk. It’s the present day Noah Cates at center versus the hypothetical alternate reality of Cates on the wing. Which development path is best? Which do you personally value more—offense or defense? Is being an good scorer better than being an excellent defender? How many points scored outweighs goals prevented? What would losing this season’s best defensive center due to the rest of the lineup? Is there value in gaining the ability to play multiple forward positions? Is the theory of the wing hypothesis actually guaranteed to be better than our reality?

Next up we discuss Frost—from toilet seat comparisons to concrete offensive threat—his whole season revolution. From diehard supporters to longtime critics, Frost is a surprisingly hot topic. We talk about all that and so much more! Stay with us you beauties!
- NC Flyers Fan

Cates at wing is not a complete hypothetical. He has actually played the position in the NHL.

you said his defensive impact as a center on a bad team is a skewed perception.

but you're not willing to apply that same logic to his play at LW all of 16 games last season on an even worse team.
- black_francis

Fact!

If Noah cates was a winger this year, he would be sooo good!did anyone see his 16, a whole 16, games last year? That’s enough games for me to know exactly what’s best for him
- ClaudeFather

I’m going to assume this is mocking, which fine, but prior to this season I believe Cates played some center but was a natural winger. I would love to read the comments and quotes from some fans on here from one year ago, who already handing Cates a spot on the roster based on those 16 games. One of those fans wasn’t me because my concern was Cates did look like the best player on a team that no longer had anything to play for.

Call it if you dare


in their prime what will their ceiling be?
- wcorvette

Tippett 2RW
Foerster 3RW
Cates 3LW/C
Frost 2C
York 4D
Brink 2RW
Zamula 5D
Andrae 5D
Desnoyers 4C
Lycksell 5LW
Cutter 2LW/C
Attard 6D

I think not that I looked, Torts has cut his ice time to play the kids, also that effects who he is playing with, that is part of it. Yeah, he could have checked out a little
- wcorvette

When you say “his”, who are you talking about? Hayes or DeAngelo?

Tippett 2RW
Foerster 3RW
Cates 3LW/C
Frost 2C
York 4D
Brink 2RW
Zamula 5D
Andrae 5D
Desnoyers 4C
Lycksell 5LW
Cutter 2LW/C
Attard 6D
- Tomahawk

Brink as a 2 and Foerester as a 3 is interesting. I think Foerester has the potential to be a top line winger , probably levels out as a second line player but he has looked very good. Looks like he grew as well

Actually that is false but appreciate the rhetoric and hyperbole. The information that we can take from his 16 game sample as a winger last year. Along with an informed eye that shows that Cates strong suit offensively in his time in the NHL has been his ability to forecheck as F1 to be fast, first and strong on pucks. As well as his ability to score and provide offense around the net on goal mouth and smash play around the net. We can also see that he doesn't have to raw skill to be a puck carrier in transition. Nor does he have the raw natural skill as a puck distributor or playmaker. Nor does he show signs of being a player with snipe ability from hanging out high as a center in the offensive zone and jumping into holes.. All of this leads to an opinion and belief that although he can play center. He may very well have more upside and more potential as a winger than a center. As has been stated previously though. Tortorella loves to fit square pegs in round holes.
- MJL

Most of the fans have been crying for the reassembling of a Cates-Frost-Tippett line for exactly one year now. I don’t know where this sudden sarcasm of 16 games from Cates is suddenly coming from…

Brink as a 2 and Foerester as a 3 is interesting. I think Foerester has the potential to be a top line winger , probably levels out as a second line player but he has looked very good. Looks like he grew as well
- ClaudeFather

If the Flyers are able to acquire an elite play driving 1C then players like Foerster and Tippett, whom neither might not be top line wingers on their own. Could be elevated by playing with an elite center to make a good line.

I think Cates is awesome at center, and next to Risto is the best player on the team! ;-)
- jd250

I feel like when you’re helping me, you’re actually hurting me.

I’m going to assume this is mocking, which fine, but prior to this season I believe Cates played some center but was a natural winger. I would love to read the comments and quotes from some fans on here from one year ago, who already handing Cates a spot on the roster based on those 16 games. One of those fans wasn’t me because my concern was Cates did look like the best player on a team that no longer had anything to play for.
- SuperSchennBros

It’s not a bad thing to play well on a team with nothing to play for but it shouldn’t be viewed as the Bible like some folks do on here. Frost has a great game against Montreal, a horrible team, in game 73 of a lost season. That’s a good thing, but look how people were talking about him after it

If the Flyers are able to acquire an elite play driving 1C then players like Foerster and Tippett, whom neither might not be top line wingers on their own. Could be elevated by playing with an elite center to make a good line.
- MJL

Agreed. I don’t think a single player on that list sniffs a top line catalyst. That’s what we need to get in these upcoming drafts

Brink as a 2 and Foerester as a 3 is interesting. I think Foerester has the potential to be a top line winger , probably levels out as a second line player but he has looked very good. Looks like he grew as well
- ClaudeFather

I get Tanner Pearson vibes from Foerster.

Brink has a lot of sneaky skill. I could see him becoming a bit of a Cam Atkinson type.

It’s not a bad thing to play well on a team with nothing to play for but it shouldn’t be viewed as the Bible like some folks do on here. Frost has a great game against Montreal, a horrible team, in game 73 of a lost season. That’s a good thing, but look how people were talking about him after it
- ClaudeFather

It's still a game in the NHL against NHL players. Young players have a lot to play for still. They're aren't likely viewing any game as meaningless.

I posted the other day how Frost has put up 15 points in 13 games against playoff teams this season. That's just looking at games where he has put up points. I'm sure there are other games against playoff teams where he didn't score.

If the Flyers are able to acquire an elite play driving 1C then players like Foerster and Tippett, whom neither might not be top line wingers on their own. Could be elevated by playing with an elite center to make a good line.
- MJL

Our up and coming young wingers’ play is always going to come down to who they have at center. I’m not as concerned with Tippett and Foerster moving forward unless they’re playing with an elite level center, as you just suggested. Unless you have a Matthew Tkachuk or Johnny Gaudreau or Alex Ovechkin, chances are your center is going to be the best player on any top line.

I get Tanner Pearson vibes from Foerster.
- Tomahawk

He seems to have some moxie.

Cates at wing is not a complete hypothetical. He has actually played the position in the NHL.
- MJL

Go ahead tell everyone the games played sample size on a bad, non playoff team after the trade deadline. It’s not small is it?

It’s not a bad thing to play well on a team with nothing to play for but it shouldn’t be viewed as the Bible like some folks do on here. Frost has a great game against Montreal, a horrible team, in game 73 of a lost season. That’s a good thing, but look how people were talking about him after it
- ClaudeFather

I agree with this but like I said, most fans on this site specifically were excited about Cates heading into this season strictly based on those 16 games you mentioned.

You are incorrect. What I said is that if you want to compare Cates as a Selke level forward. Looking at his defensive impact relative to his teammates on a bad team is not the way to do it. Comparing his defensive impact to the top Selke level forwards in the league is the correct way.

You have failed to grasp the logic. Comparing Cates as a winger last season to Cates as a center this season is comparing the same player in two different positions. The above clearly can't be applied. The fact that the team was worse last season, makes the argument that Cates could be better as a winger, even stronger.
- MJL

if a rookie who has never played the position before is getting Selke votes then we aren't talking about just his impact on a bad Flyers team.

Never once did I say he had "Selke level stats", just "Selke votes". Which is a fact. And your problem with that is it doesn't fit your "Torts is misusing him" narrative.

But yeah let's compare him to Bergeron for a lopsided view on who has "Selke level stats." The award could be named after him. My disagreement with you is that Torts is misusing him and that you seem to know, for a fact, that after seeing his HUGE sample size of 16 games last year at LW, that playing him there would be better for him. The rest of the league disagrees with you.

Ya know, Jim Carrey won a Vezina but you'd probably dismiss that since he's not Dominik Hasek...

Go ahead tell everyone the games played sample size on a bad, non playoff team after the trade deadline. It’s not small is it?
- NC Flyers Fan

It is small which is why the opinion is offered not a fact but as a premise. In that he could have a higher upside as a winger based on the information available that I have repeatedly posted. It's based on his production rate as a winger versus a center and the skill set and raw talent that he has.

I get Tanner Pearson vibes from Foerster.

Brink has a lot of sneaky skill. I could see him becoming a bit of a Cam Atkinson type.
- Tomahawk

Atkinson is the better skater. Realizing that Brink isn't fully recovered from the hip surgery yet from a skating perspective, I must say that his skating look meh with the Phantoms. He compensates with ice vision and good hands but being as small as he is, I think he needs to gets stronger and at least somewhat quicker to translate his game to the NHL.

if a rookie who has never played the position before is getting Selke votes then we aren't talking about just his impact on a bad Flyers team.

Never once did I say he had "Selke level stats", just "Selke votes". Which is a fact. Any your problem with that is it doesn't fit your "Torts is misusing him" narrative.



But yeah let's compare him to Bergeron for a lopsided view on who has "Selke level stats." The award could be named after him. My disagreement with you is that Torts is misusing him and that you seem to know, for a fact, that after seeing his HUGE sample size of 16 games last year at LW, that playing him there would be better for him. The rest of the league disagrees with you.

Ya know, Jim Carrey won a Vezina but you'd probably dismiss that since he's not Dominik Hasek...
- black_francis

I've given you an opportunity here. You have not made any argument at all. You just keep using rhetoric and hyperbole and your flawed belief that I know something for a fact. You came up small here. Apparently not even aware that the Selke trophy ballots have not been cast yet. The vote has not happened yet.

Your Carrey analogy is unintelligent.

I have given both you and Richards18 on the other thread an opportunity. You responded as expected. You have nothing. You can both resume trolling now.

Atkinson is the better skater. Realizing that Brink isn't fully recovered from the hip surgery yet from a skating perspective, I must say that his skating look meh with the Phantoms. He compensates with ice vision and good hands but being as small as he is, I think he needs to gets stronger and at least somewhat quicker to translate his game to the NHL.
- bmeltzer

Most definitely.

I just think his tenacity on the puck, his playmaking and his ability to operate in small space are all very translatable to the NHL and are what remind me of Cam, less so than skating.

It's still a game in the NHL against NHL players. Young players have a lot to play for still. They're aren't likely viewing any game as meaningless.

I posted the other day how Frost has put up 15 points in 13 games against playoff teams this season. That's just looking at games where he has put up points. I'm sure there are other games against playoff teams where he didn't score.
- MJL

It certainly is but it’s an entirely different game than say game 15 of the season.