No sense talking common sense with the excuse crew. You could hand them a bag of actual poop and they’d talk about where the poop came from and how great the smell of the poop is versus 30+ other piles of poop.

Sometimes insanity just can’t be fixed. Let them fester and plan new excuses in peace.
- optimus-reim

this is coming from your own experience with sanity.

go on.

I think we need to plan for Gio to be a #7 this coming year. Let's see how he comes out of the gate. He was fabulous for most of the year but he just ran out of steam at the end. Age or fatigue? Had they managed his ice and opposition better would he have still been okay in the playoffs or were they just too much for him? I don't know. He's always been a smart defenseman and those guys learn how to cheat time a bit by knowing the game.

For me I am hoping for more Timmins.
- Monkeypunk

Gio and Schenn flipping as #7 isn't a bad thing, for me.

As for Gio, playing with Holl killed him. Holl is literal death for the guys forced to carry him for long stretches of season. Muzzin. Last season both Gio and Brodie completely fell apart come playoffs because they were gassed from lugging around dead weight for months.

Agreed on Timmins. I hope he gets a legit chance.

Fox said it was the Rangers or nowhere for him and it seemed like Dougie Hamilton also wanted out of Calgary or his "teammates" wanted nothing to do with him.

Can't really blame him for that.
- GreatGigInTheSky

Exactly.. I don't think you can fault him for the Fox or the Tkachuk deals, his hands were essentially tied as neither of those two guys wanted to be there anymore.

He had no choice on Fox. Fox had no intention of signing with Calgary. He was simply thrown in to Carolina as a part of the deal - because Carolina knew they could flip him for picks, but it didn't stop them from trying to sign him, too.

Hamilton, I never fully loved that deal - but Lindholm and Hanifin combined made them better. In fact I think Hamilton has always been a bit hyped and this year was probably the first time he's really stepped up to be worth the hype and money he's received.

I'm with you - I hope they find a move to acquire Hellebuyck. I love the guy. You put a top-5 team in front of him and he'll respond.
- Monkeypunk

Just seems to be an odd number of players that refused to play under Treliving's watch.

Either that's the worst luck of all time or a it's pattern that maybe he created with poor management.

Gio and Schenn flipping as #7 isn't a bad thing, for me.

As for Gio, playing with Holl killed him. Holl is literal death for the guys forced to carry him for long stretches of season. Muzzin. Last season both Gio and Brodie completely fell apart come playoffs because they were gassed from lugging around dead weight for months.

Agreed on Timmins. I hope he gets a legit chance.
- GreatGigInTheSky

If Holl comes back, then nothing changes..
I would hope at least two changes on defense.

Rielly, McCabe and Liljegren should be safe.. Would be great if they could re-sign Schenn as a 6-7 guy

Treliving or Sutter?
- PatC80

Who hired Sutter?

Or do we have another "it was out of his hands" excuse for Treliving?

Just seems to be an odd number of players that refused to play under Treliving's watch.

Either that's the worst luck of all time or a it's pattern that maybe he created with poor management.
- Rare_Jewel

Cause Sutter's a calm, friendly player first coach?

Yes guy

Timmins is more of a scorer
I would pair him with a knuckle dragger
- mr.sir

Rielly- Schenn
McCabe - Liljegren
knuckle dragger - Timmins
Gio

When Schenn gets a game off, move Liljegren beside Rielly for that game. McCabe to RD beside Gio.

Dale Tallon. No contest.
- Rare_Jewel

but is he really?
that's like saying Neil Smith was available as well.

Lindholm had one good season and fell off a cliff this year. Bad management, bad results. Seems to be a lot of players that didn't want to play under Treliving's regime.
- Rare_Jewel

Wasn't he hurt for most of this season.

Cause Sutter's a calm, friendly player first coach?
- PatC80

Who. Hired. Sutter.

but is he really?
that's like saying Neil Smith was available as well.
- dmnted

Yeah, he really is.

Who hired Sutter?

Or do we have another "it was out of his hands" excuse for Treliving?
- Rare_Jewel

Just blame him for everything I guess? It's easier.. Is it Treliving's fault that Jarome Iginla retired? Do we fault him for moving Al McInnis too?

Wasn't he hurt for most of this season.
- dmnted

Missed 2 games.

both could happen but the Leafs would be on the hook for Gio's 800k.
granted it's not much of a cap hit but still a cap hit for a player not on the team playing
- dmnted

I think a Gio that plays only half or less of the season and never with Holl, could be a good Gio come playoffs next season.

He had no choice on Fox. Fox had no intention of signing with Calgary. He was simply thrown in to Carolina as a part of the deal - because Carolina knew they could flip him for picks, but it didn't stop them from trying to sign him, too.

Hamilton, I never fully loved that deal - but Lindholm and Hanifin combined made them better. In fact I think Hamilton has always been a bit hyped and this year was probably the first time he's really stepped up to be worth the hype and money he's received.

I'm with you - I hope they find a move to acquire Hellebuyck. I love the guy. You put a top-5 team in front of him and he'll respond.
- Monkeypunk

Would be a great move.

Just blame him for everything I guess? It's easier.. Is it Treliving's fault that Jarome Iginla retired? Do we fault him for moving Al McInnis too?
- PatC80

Terrible strawman here.

Rielly- Schenn
McCabe - Liljegren
knuckle dragger - Timmins
Gio

When Schenn gets a game off, move Liljegren beside Rielly for that game. McCabe to RD beside Gio.
- GreatGigInTheSky

GRAVEDIGGER 💙

I can't see him overhauling it too much right away.

Rielly, Liljegren, and McCabe are going nowhere and nor should they. Timmins should be given a legit shot at playing time next season.

That basically leaves trading Brodie because I don't think Gio is gonna retire.
- GreatGigInTheSky

Trade Brodie and Nylander to the Islander for Dobson + Pageau
then flip Pageau for 2nd round pick and a prospect.

Missed 2 games.
- Rare_Jewel

Question, do you own this jersey?

Would be a great move.
- GreatGigInTheSky

If the Leafs can't hire a defensive expert head coach and can't fix the blueline, their best option really is Hellebuyck.

Would be the best goalie they've had since Belfour.

Exactly.. I don't think you can fault him for the Fox or the Tkachuk deals, his hands were essentially tied as neither of those two guys wanted to be there anymore.
- PatC80

Yup. For sure.

Hopefully nothing like that happens here.

Question, do you own this jersey?


- PatC80

Yeah totally, it must be because I love the guy whom I've wanted fired for over 3 years.

Shanahan and the entire management team should have been fired. All of them.

If Holl comes back, then nothing changes..
I would hope at least two changes on defense.

Rielly, McCabe and Liljegren should be safe.. Would be great if they could re-sign Schenn as a 6-7 guy
- PatC80

Would be a colossal failure for the franchise.

Yup. For sure.

Hopefully nothing like that happens here.
- GreatGigInTheSky

In both cases, he did pretty well those two deals.