Possible Trade with DET

Alex DeBrincat For Filip Zadina, Jonatan Berggren, 2023 2nd

Why the love for Zadina. He has not developed well at all. And for Berggren ... scoring potential but is only 5ft 10in tall. For those who point at DeBrincat's height ? how does Berggren fit in?

With Zadina, he is clearly in need of a new start, but does Ottawa want to be the team "fixes" him if possible?

Possible Trade with DET

Alex DeBrincat For Filip Zadina, Jonatan Berggren, 2023 2nd
- AlfieisKing

Hard pass on this deal.

When I say possible deal, I'm not saying I would do it or offer that as Sens GM. I'm just saying some of those pieces might be in a trade if AD is going to DET. Would you guys do the deal if it's the 17th?

Zadina (2018 6th overall), Jonatan Berggren (2018 33rd Overall), 2023 17th Overall is better return that what Ottawa gave up for DeBrincat. I'm just saying that from the POV of a non sens fan, that return isn't bad. Again, not saying I make the deal but in terms of value, it's closer to fair then we might think

Why the love for Zadina. He has not developed well at all. And for Berggren ... scoring potential but is only 5ft 10in tall. For those who point at DeBrincat's height ? how does Berggren fit in?

With Zadina, he is clearly in need of a new start, but does Ottawa want to be the team "fixes" him if possible?
- OttawaB

Lots of teams wanting to do deals. Lots of players asking for trades. Smart contrarian investor steps away at this point in time says, "excuse me" because the market is far too volatile and frothy.

September or even after the season begins might prove to be a more positive trade market for a seller. Everybody thinks they can leverage a Tkchuck, Florida, Calgary gambit. Maybe not. Teams will need to move players to create cap space if they want to take on bigger contracts. Short term, this is a buyers market and you don't want to be trying to sell a really good asset over this summer.

Possible Trade with DET

Alex DeBrincat For Filip Zadina, Jonatan Berggren, 2023 2nd
- AlfieisKing

No Thanks 🤦‍♂️

Detroit :
Debrincat

Ottawa:
Islanders 17th pick
Kubalik

Somebody needs to do some serious in depth financial analysis. But a quick eyeball of the situation shows many high end players becoming UFAs next summer. And, almost everyone is saying they want to test the market. Teams are in panic mode and over reacting by trying to sign everyone to long term deals this summer.

We know teams are going to get a $5m pop on the cap next summer. So agents and players are thinking everyone gets a monster payday. Simple math tells us it will not work this way. Half the teams need this cap increase just to maintain their existing rosters.

Think about it. Winnipeg and Calgary will have 4 top UFAs dropping off their existing rosters. Last year Klingburg thought he would score big but he could not get a contract offer in the initial bidding.

Starting to think the $8m cap space you save on DeBrincat might go a long way in the UFA glut of next summer. Sign him to a fair deal for this year and see what you can do next summer.

Dorion should be all over trying to sign Domi and Tofolli
He’s done in Calgary

Tkachuk Stutzle Giroux
Batherson Norris Toffoli
Domi Pinto Joseph
Grieg Kastelic Sokolov

Detroit :
Debrincat

Ottawa:
Islanders 17th pick
Kubalik
- sens4life1971

Keep him, he isn't worth that. Not sure i would do the Berggren deal either unless Debrincat is willing to sign around 7 mil a season.

Better option would be to just sign Tarasenko for cheaper and shorter term than what Debrincat wants if the Wings really want a scorer and not waste any assets on a one dimensional small winger like Debrincat and use those assets for something they actually need like a good top 6 offensive center, a top 4 RHD or a power forward like Crouse or Wilson.

Keep him, he isn't worth that. Not sure i would do the Berggren deal either unless Debrincat is willing to sign around 7 mil a season.

Better option would be to just sign Tarasenko for cheaper and shorter term than what Debrincat wants if the Wings really want a scorer and not waste any assets on a one dimensional small winger like Debrincat and use those assets for something they actually need like a good top 6 offensive center, a top 4 RHD or a power forward like Crouse or Wilson.
- dcz28

I respect your opinion but many many GMs are giving Kubalik and the 17th pick if it means DeBrincat is on a 8 year deal.

DET is not worth trading with. Don't think Yzerman has/will give what Sens will need to get from DeBrincat. Again, a fair deal would be Kubalik or Zadina WITH Berggren and a 2nd pick minimum!
C'mon, how many players you can list (playing in the NHL) who have scored 40 goals 2 times in the past 5 seasons? Also how many players you know that scored 40 goals twice before 25!!

I respect your opinion but many many GMs are giving Kubalik and the 17th pick if it means DeBrincat is on a 8 year deal.

DET is not worth trading with. Don't think Yzerman has/will give what Sens will need to get from DeBrincat. Again, a fair deal would be Kubalik or Zadina WITH Berggren and a 2nd pick minimum!
C'mon, how many players you can list (playing in the NHL) who have scored 40 goals 2 times in the past 5 seasons? Also how many players you know that scored 40 goals twice before 25!!
- AlfieisKing

Ottawa has a bunch of really good players including Stutzle. Tkchuck. Chabot, DeBrincat, Norris, Giroux, Batherson, Chychrun, Zub, Sanderson and Pinto. I think the Sens might benefit from letting go of a top salary to make sure they have the cap space for signing Chycrun, Sanderson and Pinto.

I respect your opinion but many many GMs are giving Kubalik and the 17th pick if it means DeBrincat is on a 8 year deal.

DET is not worth trading with. Don't think Yzerman has/will give what Sens will need to get from DeBrincat. Again, a fair deal would be Kubalik or Zadina WITH Berggren and a 2nd pick minimum!
C'mon, how many players you can list (playing in the NHL) who have scored 40 goals 2 times in the past 5 seasons? Also how many players you know that scored 40 goals twice before 25!!
- AlfieisKing

I don't want Debrincat in Detroit really. He got his 40 goals seasons being fed by Kane. Probably the best true playmaker the Wings have right now is Berggren (i like him a lot) and he is nowhere near Kane level (in his prime). Wings don't have a playmaker that will make Debrincat a 40 goal scorer (especially if they trade Berggren for him). Heck i doubt he would hit 30 goals with the Wings just like he didn't with the Sens.

So why spend these assets to trade for him and give him all that money when you can spend it on a couple of players that might still get you 20 something each but bring other things the team is lacking?

To me trading for Debrincat is a waste of assets and money for the Wings and i'm getting sick of every Michigan player being rumored going to Detroit. They kept saying that about Petry (bullet dodged) then it was Rust before he re-signed with the Pens (bullet dodged) and now it's Debrincat (hopefully bullet dodged). If the Wings are going to trade for a Michigan winger, then trade for Kyle Connor of the Jets who has a 7.1 mil cap hit for 3 seasons and played/is friends with Larkin. I would rather the Wings spend assets on a good center but if they are going for a winger, Connor is a much better choice than Debrincat any day.

^^^that is a good take^^^

DeBrincat has value, but not without someone to find him. He did play pretty damn well with Ottawa's second line players, a ho-hum coach. The Cat became the set up man though and set career highs in assists and really wasn't far off his normal season totals. He almost reminds me of a Phil Kessel. It has to be right place right time for him to pot 40+. I also don't covet anyone on the Redwings team. This Bergeren kid sounds like another Brannstrom. Seemingly their best, internally, overvalued prospect. Every team does this. We do it too. Who the hell is Ridley Greig to anyone NOT in the Sens sphere?

For me the team to target with DeBrincat is Vancouver. He may not be on their list, but he goes there for the 11th pick. Straight up and nothing else except a similar caveat that Karlsson had on his deal that he can't be shipped east. Let Vancouver figure out how to sign him or ship him somewhere else with Demko for a larger return that suits their needs. Ottawa gets a reasonable pick back for the one year rental of DeBrincat. Dorion can't get greedy. Nor can he pay him over 8. If the cat took 8 or a little more on a shorter deal I might sign him.

^^^that is a good take^^^

DeBrincat has value, but not without someone to find him. He did play pretty damn well with Ottawa's second line players, a ho-hum coach. The Cat became the set up man though and set career highs in assists and really wasn't far off his normal season totals. He almost reminds me of a Phil Kessel. It has to be right place right time for him to pot 40+. I also don't covet anyone on the Redwings team. This Bergeren kid sounds like another Brannstrom. Seemingly their best, internally, overvalued prospect. Every team does this. We do it too. Who the hell is Ridley Greig to anyone NOT in the Sens sphere?

For me the team to target with DeBrincat is Vancouver. He may not be on their list, but he goes there for the 11th pick. Straight up and nothing else except a similar caveat that Karlsson had on his deal that he can't be shipped east. Let Vancouver figure out how to sign him or ship him somewhere else with Demko for a larger return that suits their needs. Ottawa gets a reasonable pick back for the one year rental of DeBrincat. Dorion can't get greedy. Nor can he pay him over 8. If the cat took 8 or a little more on a shorter deal I might sign him.
- Octavarium

Pretty sure he doesn’t have any Canadian teams on his list cause he doesn’t wanna play in Canada
So Vancouver is not an option
And when I read people thinking Dorion only gonna get a 2nd round and roster player is funny
For a 2 time 40goal player lol
Yes just like everyone they need a setup guy
But considering he potted 27g and 65pts playing 2nd line being his down year that’s pretty good he be Detroit 2nd highest scorer on his off year lol
I’m still sticking to my guns
I say 17th pick and Kubalik 💪

Put Kubalik with Pinto and Joseph 3rd line
Grab Tofolli from Calgary to play with Norris and Batherson
Have Grieg Kastelic Sokolov for 4th line
Then ya have lots of cash to get Goalie 👍

^^^that is a good take^^^

DeBrincat has value, but not without someone to find him. He did play pretty damn well with Ottawa's second line players, a ho-hum coach. The Cat became the set up man though and set career highs in assists and really wasn't far off his normal season totals. He almost reminds me of a Phil Kessel. It has to be right place right time for him to pot 40+. I also don't covet anyone on the Redwings team. This Bergeren kid sounds like another Brannstrom. Seemingly their best, internally, overvalued prospect. Every team does this. We do it too. Who the hell is Ridley Greig to anyone NOT in the Sens sphere?

For me the team to target with DeBrincat is Vancouver. He may not be on their list, but he goes there for the 11th pick. Straight up and nothing else except a similar caveat that Karlsson had on his deal that he can't be shipped east. Let Vancouver figure out how to sign him or ship him somewhere else with Demko for a larger return that suits their needs. Ottawa gets a reasonable pick back for the one year rental of DeBrincat. Dorion can't get greedy. Nor can he pay him over 8. If the cat took 8 or a little more on a shorter deal I might sign him.
- Octavarium

I think I agree. I don't disagree but remain fluid. Maybe yes, maybe no.

I think about guys like Marner, Skinner, Hoffman and whole bunch of other undersized scoring phenoms. Most disappear once the post season heavy grind begins.

If DeBrincat wants $9m it could be a right number for some team. But I think Sens would be better if they added a fiesty $5.5m second line skater (like Konecny) and use the balance of funds to help settle up with Sanderson, Chychrun and Pinto.

But, as you know, if they could flip or three way the DeBrincat trade assets into PLD with a long term contract...I will take the big body.

I agree Sens4life.
He absolutely doesn't want to be in Vancouver.
You sell him as a repurposeable asset.

They can ship him to Nashville for a deal that works better for them.
I want a top ten pick. This year. We aren't getting one. But maybe we get 11 from the calamitous Canuks.

I agree Sens4life.
He absolutely doesn't want to be in Vancouver.
You sell him as a repurposeable asset.

They can ship him to Nashville for a deal that works better for them.
I want a top ten pick. This year. We aren't getting one. But maybe we get 11 from the calamitous Canuks.
- Octavarium

I am a huge fan of the need to go all in and rebuild through the draft (crash and burn).

But when you are knocking on the door and challenging for a playoff spot the draft needs to understood differently. I think Pierre should go into next week believing the Sens are a Cup contender and the do the deals in support of the idea the Sens plan on going deep into the playoffs.

The priorities for the Sens include size, grit, character and goaltending.

^^^that is a good take^^^

DeBrincat has value, but not without someone to find him. He did play pretty damn well with Ottawa's second line players, a ho-hum coach. The Cat became the set up man though and set career highs in assists and really wasn't far off his normal season totals. He almost reminds me of a Phil Kessel. It has to be right place right time for him to pot 40+. I also don't covet anyone on the Redwings team. This Bergeren kid sounds like another Brannstrom. Seemingly their best, internally, overvalued prospect. Every team does this. We do it too. Who the hell is Ridley Greig to anyone NOT in the Sens sphere?

For me the team to target with DeBrincat is Vancouver. He may not be on their list, but he goes there for the 11th pick. Straight up and nothing else except a similar caveat that Karlsson had on his deal that he can't be shipped east. Let Vancouver figure out how to sign him or ship him somewhere else with Demko for a larger return that suits their needs. Ottawa gets a reasonable pick back for the one year rental of DeBrincat. Dorion can't get greedy. Nor can he pay him over 8. If the cat took 8 or a little more on a shorter deal I might sign him.
- Octavarium

Berggren is not a top prospect for the Wings but he is pretty good. 15 goals, 28 points in 67 games mainly playing on the 4th line with Veleno and Czarnik and some 2nd unit PP time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj4Ka9dZuas

I would be okay with Detroits 2nd 1st rd pick and Kubalik. But I'm thinking more and more that Debrinicat has more value (1st and 3rd at least) at the trade deadline to a contender. But I want the sens to trade him now so this issue isn't hanging over their heads at summer.

I don't have a problem trading within the division and neither do the Sens given how many deals they have done with the Leafs lately, lol. Detroit makes sens only if Debrinicat wants to go there and they (maybe) want to sign him long term.

I like the idea of Toffoli from Calgary. Maybe tow birds with one stone....grab Vladar and Toffoli for at least a 2nd pick, Thomson and Formenton?

I could see a Toffoli/Vladar trade for Formenton and Tompson (can't send Lassi down anymore unless he clears waivers). But only if we could snag Toffoli for an extension of 1 or 2 more years (is he willing to sign in Ottawa and play beyond just 1 more year).

I would also like to push for Scott Mayfield as a 5/6/7th d-man if the price is right. Big and tough (maybe helps replace some of what we lose in Austin Watson). I would also take a look at Lucic as the 12th/13th forward if the price is right.

Use Debrincat and maybe Greig (I still say Greig is too small and prone to injury to play the style of hockey he plays), and Forsberg. Maybe Sokolov as well ....... try to swing a trade (with a third team to take Debrincat) with Philly to get some combo of Konecny/Laughton/Hart.

I'm in more of a "let's start winning now" mode then trading for picks and prospects to develop in a year or two.

Time for Dorion (or Staios ... fingers crossed) with DJ Smith (or John Gruden ... fingers crossed) to make the changeover.

Veteran teams win the Stanley Cup, It is hard to believe how hockey supporters miss on that simple fact.

Sens have a great young core. Get something fair in return for DeBrincat. There are going toolsets of good veteran players available this summer at a reasonable cost,

Giroux was a great add this summer. Maybe Dorion can do it again

I don't want Debrincat in Detroit really. He got his 40 goals seasons being fed by Kane. Probably the best true playmaker the Wings have right now is Berggren (i like him a lot) and he is nowhere near Kane level (in his prime). Wings don't have a playmaker that will make Debrincat a 40 goal scorer (especially if they trade Berggren for him). Heck i doubt he would hit 30 goals with the Wings just like he didn't with the Sens.

So why spend these assets to trade for him and give him all that money when you can spend it on a couple of players that might still get you 20 something each but bring other things the team is lacking?

To me trading for Debrincat is a waste of assets and money for the Wings and i'm getting sick of every Michigan player being rumored going to Detroit. They kept saying that about Petry (bullet dodged) then it was Rust before he re-signed with the Pens (bullet dodged) and now it's Debrincat (hopefully bullet dodged). If the Wings are going to trade for a Michigan winger, then trade for Kyle Connor of the Jets who has a 7.1 mil cap hit for 3 seasons and played/is friends with Larkin. I would rather the Wings spend assets on a good center but if they are going for a winger, Connor is a much better choice than Debrincat any day.
- dcz28

Fair enough. No Michigan players for you.

But seriously I agree - DeBrincat's landing spot isn't in Detroit.

I also agree that Patrick Kane is a big reason he scored 40+ goals (instead of maybe 27-35 goals per year). But that's what DeBrincat is for sure - a 30-35 goal scorer on a good team.

He is worth more than the 6.4m cap hit he was and less than the 9m cap hit he will be next year. In 20-21 he was on pace for 50.

Fair enough. No Michigan players for you.

But seriously I agree - DeBrincat's landing spot isn't in Detroit.

I also agree that Patrick Kane is a big reason he scored 40+ goals (instead of maybe 27-35 goals per year). But that's what DeBrincat is for sure - a 30-35 goal scorer on a good team.

He is worth more than the 6.4m cap hit he was and less than the 9m cap hit he will be next year. In 20-21 he was on pace for 50.
- AlfieisKing

Not like i hate Michigan players and the fact they might want to play close to home but they need to be a fit in style of play, what you need to give up to get them and contract they might want.

Like i said, i would gladly take Kyle Connor from the Jets to play with Larkin. I think he would be a much better fit than Debrincat both in style of play and contract but the cost to trade for him would likely be very high and maybe not worth it for the Wings at this point.

Like i said before, the Wings need a top end center, a solid top 4 RHD and a power forward. Not sure they have any of those in their prospect system right now. Maybe after this draft they might but who knows. Yzerman believes in BPA at the draft (especially in the early rounds) so they might still be missing those after this draft. If he is going to make a trade, i hope it will be to fill one of those holes...as long as it doesn't create another one that they can't fill from their prospect system.

Also the Wings have plenty of cap space which media and trade rumor people are quick to point at as a reason to include the Wings in a lot of trade speculation (along with the fact they have a lot of picks and prospects) but that cap space is going to dwindle fast once guys like Seider, Raymond and others come off their entry level deals. Spending stupidly now could cause serious problems with signing good young players in a few years. You also don't want to throw off your teams salary structure with a bad deal or two and it comes back to haunt you when better young players ask for more because of it.

Not like i hate Michigan players and the fact they might want to play close to home but they need to be a fit in style of play, what you need to give up to get them and contract they might want.

Like i said, i would gladly take Kyle Connor from the Jets to play with Larkin. I think he would be a much better fit than Debrincat both in style of play and contract but the cost to trade for him would likely be very high and maybe not worth it for the Wings at this point.

Like i said before, the Wings need a top end center, a solid top 4 RHD and a power forward. Not sure they have any of those in their prospect system right now. Maybe after this draft they might but who knows. Yzerman believes in BPA at the draft (especially in the early rounds) so they might still be missing those after this draft. If he is going to make a trade, i hope it will be to fill one of those holes...as long as it doesn't create another one that they can't fill from their prospect system.

Also the Wings have plenty of cap space which media and trade rumor people are quick to point at as a reason to include the Wings in a lot of trade speculation (along with the fact they have a lot of picks and prospects) but that cap space is going to dwindle fast once guys like Seider, Raymond and others come off their entry level deals. Spending stupidly now could cause serious problems with signing good young players in a few years. You also don't want to throw off your teams salary structure with a bad deal or two and it comes back to haunt you when better young players ask for more because of it.
- dcz28

Sens have to be realistic. At best DeBrincat was the Sens 4th best forward last year and with Norris returning this year there is a good chance he drops to 5th in scoring. More important his defensive game is weak.

So many good options available to Sens. I would like a bigger body and bit more veteran presence. Toffoli and Tarasenko would be great on short term deals (even one year is good). Next summer there will be many UFAs and many teams struggling to fit their own players under the cap. Be nice to hit next summer with free cap space.