Jeff Veillette
@JeffVeillette
·
2h
Been asked to update the Panthers times on PK thing I posted early in the Finals. As the series went on, their rates went back to normal.

Season: 3.6/GP (3rd NHL)
Round 1: 27 in 7 GP (3.9/GP)
Round 2: 11 in 5 GP (2.2/GP)
Round 3: 14 in 4 GP (3.5/GP)
SCF: 19 in 5 GP (3.8/GP)

____________________________

Update and final tally.

Feel really bad for whatever team faced such a completely clean and totally different Panthers team in the 2nd round.

(frank)ing joke.

Yeah the 5 goalies played this year was them not doing everything for a chance. Went perfect the entire time. Just needed one piece.


Vegas had to make changes because their team didn't have stars like the leafs. Karlsson isn't a top center like Matthews. So they had to go find someone. But keep that narrative going.
- Aaron_85

You're starstruck, Aaron. Unfortunately the team around them is meh. That, and our "stars" don't deliver the goods when it counts. Ask yourself this question: Do you think Vegas' management would run this core back repeatedly??

Wow, one of the worst finals in recent years.
Glad its over.
The 2 weeks off killed the panthers momentum

Yeah the 5 goalies played this year was them not doing everything for a chance. Went perfect the entire time. Just needed one piece.


Vegas had to make changes because their team didn't have stars like the leafs. Karlsson isn't a top center like Matthews. So they had to go find someone. But keep that narrative going.
- Aaron_85

When things didnt work out, vegas shipped players out, didnt matter who it was.
Good on them

Fractured sternum for Tkachuk. That’s gotta be painful.


https://twitter.com/fried...&t=xdbwDZlJpKsy8vg5wHUWXg

Kessel has 3 cups.

Can't wait to see all the guys on the leafs "we can't win with" have 3 in the next 10 years when they are traded for scraps.
- Aaron_85

Loved Kessel
But peeps were right, werent gonna win with him as your top line winger and main team star.
As a third liner or a supporting player, he was better suited

You're starstruck, Aaron. Unfortunately the team around them is meh. That, and our "stars" don't deliver the goods when it counts. Ask yourself this question: Do you think Vegas' management would run this core back repeatedly??
- fifty__missions

Vegas woud have broken up the core 4 years ago

No question
Too much of the same

Vegas woud have broken up the core 4 years ago

No question
Too much of the same
- Fakepartofme

need more sandpaper in your top 6?

Vegas woud have broken up the core 4 years ago

No question
Too much of the same
- Fakepartofme

They have been in the league 6 (frank)ing years, so this type of statement is just silly. As many others have pointed out Vegas has opportunity to make sweeping changes almost no other team every has unless they choose to go scorched earth.

It's easy to sit back and say "well team X did this and it worked out so why can't the Leafs" - Vegas was stacked before and after they made their big changes thanks to the new expansion team set up and some GM's who were either drunk AF or just plain awful when they gave Vegas what they did in the expansion draft.

The new NHL won't tolerate expansion teams being bottom feeders and that kinda' sucks for the other fan bases, especially teams who were expansion teams and had to do so more recently and haven't been able to get to a high level of success yet.

When we complain as Leafs fans about Vegas winning in 5 years imagine how a fan of the Wild feel?

Vegas also has a market where moving out a big name player is far less of a big deal than a market like Toronto. The fact these players were only there for a couple years before being moved would lead me to believe the attachment the fans had to the players was pretty m'eh. I mean MAF was moved and they had made him the face of the franchise almost and it didn't seem to phase fans at all. They care about winning and not much else it seems.

It'll be interesting to see how that fanbase reacts if Vegas in a few years becomes a bottom feeder and has to rebuild. Will fans still come and watch or will they 'sell out' because Casinos buy tickets but the rink will be half full? I'm inclined to think it'll be the latter of the 2 but time will tell and of course Vegas has to suck for that to happen as well and they aren't built to suck right now.

Last point in my long ass post - to all those who are clamouring for a 'stud goalie' Vegas just won with a carousel of goalies, the most proven one saw zero ice time in the playoffs I believe (Quick). So teams can win a cup without a stud goalie, they just need the goalie who goes on a rip and is proclaimed the next stud goalie (Hill in this case). What's to say that can't be Sammy or Woll etc? I'd rather get tougher D and on the wings than invest the farm in a Bob who was great and led his team (ok arguably almost carried them single handily really) to the cup finals - until he couldn't any more a la Jesus Price a few years ago.

I guess the "a team never had a 10M player on the roster and won the cup" thing is dead since Jacko Jorts just won a cup eh? That narrative will just change to a team with more than one player making 10M or more has never....because Leafs. Same as the narrative has already changed to "Leafs haven't been past the 2nd round in.....".

One day when the Leafs win the cup before I die the new narrative will be that it took them too many games to win it or they didn't score enough goals in comparison to other team who have won the cup or some other BS. lol

Barbashev would be a good target

(frank) Vegas!

Spoiled rich kids

need more sandpaper in your top 6?
- Symba007

I think some grit around the skill for sure.

Barbashev Eichel Marchessault
Howden Stephenson Stone

Not exactly an in your face lineup. I think they did a better job at getting in the greasy areas and finishing though.

The biggest difference for me is their D are a definite 'type'. Big guys that can make a pass. Theodore and AP have some skill but the group is more just big, safe and veterans.

For me - Leafs need an AP type. Then you can roll two legit pairings.

Vegas woud have broken up the core 4 years ago

No question
Too much of the same
- Fakepartofme

I love the romanticizing of Vegas as a wonderfully run organization now that they've won the cup.

Here are some facts to remember: They moved out Stastny, Fleury, Reaves, Schmidt, Pacioretty and Dadonov - not because they weren't working out but because of poor cap management.

They have made some great moves that affected this roster: Trading for Stone, Eichel and Martinez as well as the signing of Pietrangelo. Some of their lower key trades - Stephenson, Kolesar and especially Hill have worked out very well for them.

If Broissoit didn't get injured, Vegas would probably have been eliminated by Edmonton. Dallas outplayed them in 5 of the 6 games, too. Hill was outstanding - this is his goals saved above average game over game:

Vs. Winnipeg

Broissoit -1.53
Broissoit 0.96
Broissoit -0.63
Broissoit 0.4
Broissoit 1.78

Vs. Edmonton

Broissoit -1.3
Broissoit -0.56
Hill 1.27
Hill -1.01
Hill 1.39
Hill 3.23

vs. Dallas

Hill 0.36
Hill 1.4
Hill 2.73
Hill 0.53
Hill 0.38
Hill 1.31

vs. Florida

Hill 1.09
Hill 1.93
Hill 0.42
Hill 0.55
Hill 0.01

Take that same thing back to Florida, and we know how well Bobrovsky played. He was the single largest contributor to Toronto and Carolina losing. Florida was outplayed in 4 of 7 by Boston, 4 of 5 by Toronto and 4 of 4 by Carolina. They were outplayed by Vegas in 3 of the 5 games in this series, but unfortunately for them Bob cooled off:

vs. Boston

Lyon -0.58
Lyon 0.31
Lyon 0.31
Bobrovsky -0.07
Bobrovsky 1.32
Bobrovsky -1.74
Bobrovsky -0.17

vs. Toronto

Bobrovsky 2.46
Bobrovsky 2.03
Bobrovsky 0.51
Bobrovsky 0.48
Bobrovsky 2.26


vs. Carolina

Bobrovsky 5.22
Bobrovsky 3.68
Bobrovsky 2.67
Bobrovsky 1.36

vs. Florida

Bobrovsky -0.6
Bobrovsky -4.23
Bobrovsky 1.4
Bobrovsky 0.98
Bobrovsky -2

They have been in the league 6 (frank)ing years, so this type of statement is just silly. As many others have pointed out Vegas has opportunity to make sweeping changes almost no other team every has unless they choose to go scorched earth.

It's easy to sit back and say "well team X did this and it worked out so why can't the Leafs" - Vegas was stacked before and after they made their big changes thanks to the new expansion team set up and some GM's who were either drunk AF or just plain awful when they gave Vegas what they did in the expansion draft.

The new NHL won't tolerate expansion teams being bottom feeders and that kinda' sucks for the other fan bases, especially teams who were expansion teams and had to do so more recently and haven't been able to get to a high level of success yet.

When we complain as Leafs fans about Vegas winning in 5 years imagine how a fan of the Wild feel?

Vegas also has a market where moving out a big name player is far less of a big deal than a market like Toronto. The fact these players were only there for a couple years before being moved would lead me to believe the attachment the fans had to the players was pretty m'eh. I mean MAF was moved and they had made him the face of the franchise almost and it didn't seem to phase fans at all. They care about winning and not much else it seems.

It'll be interesting to see how that fanbase reacts if Vegas in a few years becomes a bottom feeder and has to rebuild. Will fans still come and watch or will they 'sell out' because Casinos buy tickets but the rink will be half full? I'm inclined to think it'll be the latter of the 2 but time will tell and of course Vegas has to suck for that to happen as well and they aren't built to suck right now.

Last point in my long ass post - to all those who are clamouring for a 'stud goalie' Vegas just won with a carousel of goalies, the most proven one saw zero ice time in the playoffs I believe (Quick). So teams can win a cup without a stud goalie, they just need the goalie who goes on a rip and is proclaimed the next stud goalie (Hill in this case). What's to say that can't be Sammy or Woll etc? I'd rather get tougher D and on the wings than invest the farm in a Bob who was great and led his team (ok arguably almost carried them single handily really) to the cup finals - until he couldn't any more a la Jesus Price a few years ago.

I guess the "a team never had a 10M player on the roster and won the cup" thing is dead since Jacko Jorts just won a cup eh? That narrative will just change to a team with more than one player making 10M or more has never....because Leafs. Same as the narrative has already changed to "Leafs haven't been past the 2nd round in.....".

One day when the Leafs win the cup before I die the new narrative will be that it took them too many games to win it or they didn't score enough goals in comparison to other team who have won the cup or some other BS. lol
- Cush29

Vegas taught us that you can’t win without Michael Amadio

I think some grit around the skill for sure.

Barbashev Eichel Marchessault
Howden Stephenson Stone

Not exactly an in your face lineup. I think they did a better job at getting in the greasy areas and finishing though.

The biggest difference for me is their D are a definite 'type'. Big guys that can make a pass. Theodore and AP have some skill but the group is more just big, safe and veterans.

For me - Leafs need an AP type. Then you can roll two legit pairings.
- The Law

That was my hindsight wish. If the Leafs had not signed JT to $11m, I believe Matthews and Marner come here a bit cheaper and there's more room on the cap w/o $11m allocated to our second line centre - and we could have been a suitor for AP. He was the type of player we needed more than Tavares.

Again, having a D who can drive play all over the ice and defend is obviously huge - a lot of cup winners have _that_ guy. Having a goalie who plays consistently well is also demonstrably successful.

Obviously _everyone_ and all these parts we all moan about are important - you have to hit, play hard, get to dirty areas, win battles, close gaps, pay attention to detail, have your goalie come up big, get your forwards in places to be successful and execute - but all of those things play off of each other. Deficiencies in one area affect the ability to be successful in others.

I felt that the goalie was adequate but not a plus. Attention to detail was mostly good, but at times lacking and they paid for it - as it has been that way since Keefe's arrival if we're being objective - but the other areas, I felt the team was mostly good in.

The rationalizing and excuse-making as to why the Leafs don't win, yet should also never the type of changes other teams routinely make is staggering. Someone should pay you guys by the word.

The rationalizing and excuse-making as to why the Leafs don't win, yet should also never the type of changes other teams routinely make is staggering. Someone should pay you guys by the word.
- fifty__missions

If that's aimed at me - explain, because I've never once said no to any type of change. In fact I usually react critically to anyone who thinks black/white because the world is typically better seen grey.

The plan should be simple - too many words (on both sides) that are meaningless. The plan is to get better ....don't rule anything out ...make any change that will improve the team.

*And I'll add that from the few words we've heard from Tree - I think that's exactly the way he views the situation. I like what I've heard from him.

The rationalizing and excuse-making as to why the Leafs don't win, yet should also never the type of changes other teams routinely make is staggering. Someone should pay you guys by the word.
- fifty__missions

The volume of female doging and moaning you do every single day on here while sitting on your soapbox of misery is staggering.

Someone should pay you by the tears and time you spend telling the majority they are wrong - you could buy your own NHL team and show us all how it's done!

If that's aimed at me - explain, because I've never once said no to any type of change. In fact I usually react critically to anyone who thinks black/white because the world is typically better seen grey.

The plan should be simple - too many words (on both sides) that are meaningless. The plan is to get better ....don't rule anything out ...make any change that will improve the team.

*And I'll add that from the few words we've heard from Tree - I think that's exactly the way he views the situation. I like what I've heard from him.
- The Law

I don't recall reading ANYONE here not say they want some changes, me included and I'm good with a piece of the core being moved to achieve that but the constant whining we read daily about the grass always being greener elsewhere is


Comparing a situation like Vegas's to Toronto's is not apples to oranges - not even close but I guess that's going to be the theme of the summer for some. How pathetic the Leafs are for not being able to do what Vegas did in 6 years with a side of haven't won a cup since 1967 and have only won 1 playoff round in 20000 years etc.

I guess some people just find happiness in complaining, seeing the glass as half empty constantly and waiting for the other shoe to fall. I just can't and won't.

They have been in the league 6 (frank)ing years, so this type of statement is just silly. As many others have pointed out Vegas has opportunity to make sweeping changes almost no other team every has unless they choose to go scorched earth.

It's easy to sit back and say "well team X did this and it worked out so why can't the Leafs" - Vegas was stacked before and after they made their big changes thanks to the new expansion team set up and some GM's who were either drunk AF or just plain awful when they gave Vegas what they did in the expansion draft.

The new NHL won't tolerate expansion teams being bottom feeders and that kinda' sucks for the other fan bases, especially teams who were expansion teams and had to do so more recently and haven't been able to get to a high level of success yet.

When we complain as Leafs fans about Vegas winning in 5 years imagine how a fan of the Wild feel?

Vegas also has a market where moving out a big name player is far less of a big deal than a market like Toronto. The fact these players were only there for a couple years before being moved would lead me to believe the attachment the fans had to the players was pretty m'eh. I mean MAF was moved and they had made him the face of the franchise almost and it didn't seem to phase fans at all. They care about winning and not much else it seems.

It'll be interesting to see how that fanbase reacts if Vegas in a few years becomes a bottom feeder and has to rebuild. Will fans still come and watch or will they 'sell out' because Casinos buy tickets but the rink will be half full? I'm inclined to think it'll be the latter of the 2 but time will tell and of course Vegas has to suck for that to happen as well and they aren't built to suck right now.

Last point in my long ass post - to all those who are clamouring for a 'stud goalie' Vegas just won with a carousel of goalies, the most proven one saw zero ice time in the playoffs I believe (Quick). So teams can win a cup without a stud goalie, they just need the goalie who goes on a rip and is proclaimed the next stud goalie (Hill in this case). What's to say that can't be Sammy or Woll etc? I'd rather get tougher D and on the wings than invest the farm in a Bob who was great and led his team (ok arguably almost carried them single handily really) to the cup finals - until he couldn't any more a la Jesus Price a few years ago.

I guess the "a team never had a 10M player on the roster and won the cup" thing is dead since Jacko Jorts just won a cup eh? That narrative will just change to a team with more than one player making 10M or more has never....because Leafs. Same as the narrative has already changed to "Leafs haven't been past the 2nd round in.....".

One day when the Leafs win the cup before I die the new narrative will be that it took them too many games to win it or they didn't score enough goals in comparison to other team who have won the cup or some other BS. lol
- Cush29

With the type of turnover theyve had (coaches, players, management) its not at all silly to think they would have move out one of the core 4 for a different look.

I love the romanticizing of Vegas as a wonderfully run organization now that they've won the cup.

Here are some facts to remember: They moved out Stastny, Fleury, Reaves, Schmidt, Pacioretty and Dadonov - not because they weren't working out but because of poor cap management.

They have made some great moves that affected this roster: Trading for Stone, Eichel and Martinez as well as the signing of Pietrangelo. Some of their lower key trades - Stephenson, Kolesar and especially Hill have worked out very well for them.

If Broissoit didn't get injured, Vegas would probably have been eliminated by Edmonton. Dallas outplayed them in 5 of the 6 games, too. Hill was outstanding - this is his goals saved above average game over game:

Vs. Winnipeg

Broissoit -1.53
Broissoit 0.96
Broissoit -0.63
Broissoit 0.4
Broissoit 1.78

Vs. Edmonton

Broissoit -1.3
Broissoit -0.56
Hill 1.27
Hill -1.01
Hill 1.39
Hill 3.23

vs. Dallas

Hill 0.36
Hill 1.4
Hill 2.73
Hill 0.53
Hill 0.38
Hill 1.31

vs. Florida

Hill 1.09
Hill 1.93
Hill 0.42
Hill 0.55
Hill 0.01

Take that same thing back to Florida, and we know how well Bobrovsky played. He was the single largest contributor to Toronto and Carolina losing. Florida was outplayed in 4 of 7 by Boston, 4 of 5 by Toronto and 4 of 4 by Carolina. They were outplayed by Vegas in 3 of the 5 games in this series, but unfortunately for them Bob cooled off:

vs. Boston

Lyon -0.58
Lyon 0.31
Lyon 0.31
Bobrovsky -0.07
Bobrovsky 1.32
Bobrovsky -1.74
Bobrovsky -0.17

vs. Toronto

Bobrovsky 2.46
Bobrovsky 2.03
Bobrovsky 0.51
Bobrovsky 0.48
Bobrovsky 2.26


vs. Carolina

Bobrovsky 5.22
Bobrovsky 3.68
Bobrovsky 2.67
Bobrovsky 1.36

vs. Florida

Bobrovsky -0.6
Bobrovsky -4.23
Bobrovsky 1.4
Bobrovsky 0.98
Bobrovsky -2
- Monkeypunk

No romantizing at all.
They dont seem to be afraid of trading out whoever.
All i said was they would have moved out one of the core four over a 6 year period of it not working.
Thats not a crazy out there assumption based on their past.
And thats no to say anything bad about the core four.....just that its safe to say they would moved one out for a different look.
People need to quit being so sensitive.

I don't recall reading ANYONE here not say they want some changes, me included and I'm good with a piece of the core being moved to achieve that but the constant whining we read daily about the grass always being greener elsewhere is


Comparing a situation like Vegas's to Toronto's is not apples to oranges - not even close but I guess that's going to be the theme of the summer for some. How pathetic the Leafs are for not being able to do what Vegas did in 6 years with a side of haven't won a cup since 1967 and have only won 1 playoff round in 20000 years etc.

I guess some people just find happiness in complaining, seeing the glass as half empty constantly and waiting for the other shoe to fall. I just can't and won't.
- Cush29

Yet here you are whining and complaining.
Moving out one of the core 4 for a different look, if the right trade were available, is not whining, or a grass is greener scenario.
Its been 7 years, its fine to want a different look.

Yet here you are whining and complaining.
Moving out one of the core 4 for a different look, if the right trade were available, is not whining, or a grass is greener scenario.
Its been 7 years, its fine to want a different look.
- Fakepartofme

It’s perfectly reasonable to argue that the Leafs need a different look. It’s silly to assert that Vegas would have broken up the core, no question.

Just hear that one line a lot from a lot of the fanbase, fake. I know you're not a koolaid chugger.
- fifty__missions

No one is on board with your complete negativity, go find another board.

It’s perfectly reasonable to argue that the Leafs need a different look. It’s silly to assert that Vegas would have broken up the core, no question.
- Canada Cup

No one knows for sure, true.
But based on their history of moves, not silly to say they would have moved the money around by spreading it out via moving out one of the core 4.
Thats not far fetched at all imo.