[quote=Monkeypunk]I love the romanticizing of Vegas as a wonderfully run organization now that they've won the cup.

Here are some facts to remember: They moved out Stastny, Fleury, Reaves, Schmidt, Pacioretty and Dadonov - not because they weren't working out but because of poor cap management.

They have made some great moves that affected this roster: Trading for Stone, Eichel and Martinez as well as the signing of Pietrangelo. Some of their lower key trades - Stephenson, Kolesar and especially Hill have worked out very well for them.

If Broissoit didn't get injured, Vegas would probably have been eliminated by Edmonton. Dallas outplayed them in 5 of the 6 games, too. Hill was outstanding - this is his goals saved above average game over game:

Vs. Winnipeg

Broissoit -1.53
Broissoit 0.96
Broissoit -0.63
Broissoit 0.4
Broissoit 1.78

Vs. Edmonton

Broissoit -1.3
Broissoit -0.56
Hill 1.27
Hill -1.01
Hill 1.39
Hill 3.23

vs. Dallas

Hill 0.36
Hill 1.4
Hill 2.73
Hill 0.53
Hill 0.38
Hill 1.31

vs. Florida

Hill 1.09
Hill 1.93
Hill 0.42
Hill 0.55
Hill 0.01

Take that same thing back to Florida, and we know how well Bobrovsky played. He was the single largest contributor to Toronto and Carolina losing. Florida was outplayed in 4 of 7 by Boston, 4 of 5 by Toronto and 4 of 4 by Carolina. They were outplayed by Vegas in 3 of the 5 games in this series, but unfortunately for them Bob cooled off:

vs. Boston

Lyon -0.58
Lyon 0.31
Lyon 0.31
Bobrovsky -0.07
Bobrovsky 1.32
Bobrovsky -1.74
Bobrovsky -0.17

vs. Toronto

Bobrovsky 2.46
Bobrovsky 2.03
Bobrovsky 0.51
Bobrovsky 0.48
Bobrovsky 2.26


vs. Carolina

Bobrovsky 5.22
Bobrovsky 3.68










The formula to win a cup is to put your season in the hands of Mrazek and the Blackhawks and have your starting goalie get injured.

If that's aimed at me - explain, because I've never once said no to any type of change. In fact I usually react critically to anyone who thinks black/white because the world is typically better seen grey.

The plan should be simple - too many words (on both sides) that are meaningless. The plan is to get better ....don't rule anything out ...make any change that will improve the team.

*And I'll add that from the few words we've heard from Tree - I think that's exactly the way he views the situation. I like what I've heard from him.
- The Law

Agreed.
Im looking forward to seeing what he does. This year i feel like it will only be adjusting the D - maybe heavier and or more physical, maybe the coach and adding supporting pieces to the core 4.

Agreed.
Im looking forward to see what he does. This year i feel like it will only be adjusting the D - maybe heavier and or more physical, maybe the coach and adding supporting pieces to the core.
- Fakepartofme

They have some money and they I think some opportunity (and motive given the contract situations) to make some changes.

I think they attempt to improve the D and make some changes down the middle. It may cost a guy like 88 ..it may not.

For me ..ideally JT moves to the wing so a 2C and 3C would be high on my list. And the group as a whole ideally improves their size.

I'm sure he's out there shopping.

Lay out Tkachuk early in the series and Florida folded.

Leafs did it with Point. Should have done it to Tkachuk.

Lay out Tkachuk early in the series and Florida folded.

Leafs did it with Point. Should have done it to Tkachuk.
- GalacticStone

And Cernak.

And FLA did it to Knies.

No one knows for sure, true.
But based on their history of moves, not silly to say they would have moved the money around by spreading it out via moving out one of the core 4.
Thats not far fetched at all imo.
- Fakepartofme

But it’s not based on the history of their moves. They haven’t really done anything like what you’re suggesting that the Leafs do. They’ve given away some high priced players for cap reasons, swung for the fences in bringing some talent in and were able to go over the cap because of an injury.

Fractured sternum for Tkchuck...damn enjoy your offseason pal

But it’s not based on the history of their moves. They haven’t really done anything like what you’re suggesting that the Leafs do. They’ve given away some high priced players for cap reasons, swung for the fences in bringing some talent in and were able to go over the cap because of an injury.
- Canada Cup

Weren't like 90% of people screaming no to Petroangelo?

Think Dubas pulls any players or prospects from the Leafs?

No one is on board with your complete negativity, go find another board.
- Santo_44

No one is on board with your endless condescending BS but here you are. Maybe take your own advice.

When things didnt work out, vegas shipped players out, didnt matter who it was.
Good on them
- Fakepartofme

Other than old man MAF, which superstar did they ship out? They traded all their top prospects. Fans here would freak out the leafs had nothing in the cupboard when they missed the playoffs last year.

Other than old man MAF, which superstar did they ship out? They traded all their top prospects. Fans here would freak out the leafs had nothing in the cupboard when they missed the playoffs last year.
- Aaron_85

I forgot they missed playoffs

Should have blown it up.

Crazy talk that we are talking a 2nd round team that should make a change of scenery trade.

The rationalizing and excuse-making as to why the Leafs don't win, yet should also never the type of changes other teams routinely make is staggering. Someone should pay you guys by the word.
- fifty__missions

ok Debbie.

The rationalizing and excuse-making as to why the Leafs don't win, yet should also never the type of changes other teams routinely make is staggering. Someone should pay you guys by the word.
- fifty__missions

Winning in sports is hard.

This isn't a video game

I forgot they missed playoffs

Should have blown it up.

Crazy talk that we are talking a 2nd round team that should make a change of scenery trade.
- Santo_44

Last month it was Florida that we should emulate. They didn’t win so now it’s Vegas.

I forgot they missed playoffs

Should have blown it up.

Crazy talk that we are talking a 2nd round team that should make a change of scenery trade.
- Santo_44

I'm very curious on which of their actual core they have moved out. MAF is the only one who was a part of the core, and he wasn't a young superstar when it happened. In fact, none of them were.

Stone wasn't traded last year. Pieterangelo wasn't. Karlsson wasn't. Etc. Etc.... Only Patches got moved for cap reasons and he ain't a young superstar or young star either.... How does a team who plans to win miss the playoffs and NOT make a big change like that?! Unbelievable!

Other than old man MAF, which superstar did they ship out? They traded all their top prospects. Fans here would freak out the leafs had nothing in the cupboard when they missed the playoffs last year.
- Aaron_85

Not sure which side of the debate I'm on but it seems to me their most successful skill is finding suckers for their "about to fall off the cliff" contracts.

Nate Schmidt $6M AAV - thanks Vancouver!
Patches $7M AAV - thanks Carolina!
Flower $7M AAV - thanks Chi-town!

And you've got to applaud the trades that acquired Stone, Eichel, Hill and Stephenson. All great value.

They paid the price though ....all their prospects and picks. But you win the Cup it's worth it.

Not sure which side of the debate I'm on but it seems to me their most successful skill is finding suckers for their "about to fall off the cliff" contracts.

Nate Schmidt $6M AAV - thanks Vancouver!
Patches $7M AAV - thanks Carolina!
Flower $7M AAV - thanks Chi-town!

And you've got to applaud the trades that acquired Stone, Eichel, Hill and Stephenson. All great value.

They paid the price though ....all their prospects and picks. But you win the Cup it's worth it.
- The Law

Thanks to the expansion draft parameters they faced they were able to stock the cupboards a lot quicker and deeper than most. That's an advantage exactly zero other teams have had and a huge reason for where they are today.

Lay out Tkachuk early in the series and Florida folded.

Leafs did it with Point. Should have done it to Tkachuk.
- GalacticStone

It didn’t take Maurice long to crying about injuries and making excuses.

No one knows for sure, true.
But based on their history of moves, not silly to say they would have moved the money around by spreading it out via moving out one of the core 4.
Thats not far fetched at all imo.
- Fakepartofme

I think you're feeling the seems like and feels like they would have because it seems like or feels like they did - but they really didn't.

All the big names they moved away from were injured too often, weren't producing (Tatar, Pacioretty, Stastny, Schmidt, Dadonov, Fleury) and/or were overpaid. Basically they have always been in cap trouble so they have a lot of cap casualties. None of these moves resulted in a good return that helped the franchise - but they did give them cap flexibility to make other moves - like Stone, Eichel and Pietrangelo.

Like it or not, because of the 2017 NHL expansion process, Vegas left that draft with a lot of picks and prospects as well as a roster and farm system that already capable, affordable and young. This gave them the ability to deal prospects most franchises couldn't afford to trade in order to get better.

Good on them for capitalizing on the process, but they are not really a franchise you can compare to any other franchise that had already been struggling to manage throughout the cap era and stay competitive with youth and prospects in the fold.

Thanks to the expansion draft parameters they faced they were able to stock the cupboards a lot quicker and deeper than most. That's an advantage exactly zero other teams have had and a huge reason for where they are today.
- joel878

To be honest I don’t know why that has to be explained in here.

So Dubas hires Spezza as Assistant GM. I love Spezza, he seems like an awesome dude, but come on, he has zero experience in that role. I honestly feel Dubas is going to fall flat on his face in Pittsburg. He will not have the same support he had with the Leafs. His hires are so predictable. We saw it here in Toronto.

I honestly feel he will not be missed at all.

I'm very curious on which of their actual core they have moved out. MAF is the only one who was a part of the core, and he wasn't a young superstar when it happened. In fact, none of them were.

Stone wasn't traded last year. Pieterangelo wasn't. Karlsson wasn't. Etc. Etc.... Only Patches got moved for cap reasons and he ain't a young superstar or young star either.... How does a team who plans to win miss the playoffs and NOT make a big change like that?! Unbelievable!
- Aaron_85

Yeah new narratives are made up every year.

If Leafs sign Barbashev 5x4.5M the media will praise them, a few years ago they would have shot Dubas out of a cannon for it.

So Dubas hires Spezza as Assistant GM. I love Spezza, he seems like an awesome dude, but come on, he has zero experience in that role. I honestly feel Dubas is going to fall flat on his face in Pittsburg. He will not have the same support he had with the Leafs. His hires are so predictable. We saw it here in Toronto.

I honestly feel he will not be missed at all.
- rSole

He is a good GM but he is being put on a team that needs a rebuild but won't do it.

Would love a Leafs Pens 1st round next year though.

Not sure which side of the debate I'm on but it seems to me their most successful skill is finding suckers for their "about to fall off the cliff" contracts.

Nate Schmidt $6M AAV - thanks Vancouver!
Patches $7M AAV - thanks Carolina!
Flower $7M AAV - thanks Chi-town!

And you've got to applaud the trades that acquired Stone, Eichel, Hill and Stephenson. All great value.

They paid the price though ....all their prospects and picks. But you win the Cup it's worth it.
- The Law

Yeah smooth moves by them for sure.

They missed the playoffs and already traded all their top guys like Suzuki. If that happened here, people would be screaming from the roof tops.