Maybe this sides with Doz's point a little here, but ultimately the questions are these:

What is Lindholm's trade value?
What is Lindholm's value to Calgary?
What is Lindholm's positional value to Calgary?

What is Andersson's trade value?
What is Andersson's value to Calgary?
What is Andersson's positional value to Calgary?

What is Marner's trade value?
What is Marner's value to Toronto?
What is Marner's positional value to Toronto?

I would argue that as a straight trade, Marner's trade value is higher than that of either Lindholm or Andersson. Is his straight trade _value_ equivalent to or greater than the combined trade value of Lindholm and Andersson? I don't know, but likely not.

What is Lindholm's value to Calgary as their highest used forward? Pretty bloody high. Is he irreplaceable? No, but in the near-term who is going to take that role as the #1C? 33 year old Backlund who enjoyed lesser competition? 32 year old Kadri? It's hard to get a #1C. They have one who was #2 in Selke voting last year when he scored 42 goals.

Andersson leads all Calgary defensemen in ATOI by about 2 minutes / game and leads all defensemen in scoring. He also quarterbacks their powerplay. Now they do have other defensemen who are quite capable in Weegar or Hanifin, but Andersson plays a critical role on that team.

Marner is Toronto's #1 right-winger and the true quarterback of the #2 power play in the NHL. Right now the Leafs' have a need at LW in their top-6 and the acquisition of a guy like Lindholm would let them slide Tavares in the 2LW position, but it would then leave them with a gap in the 2RW spot. They do have Nylander who could slot in for him, but Marner is more effective at puck distribution. Marner is the stick that stirs the drink for the Leafs' power play.

The Leafs would get worse offensively, better defensively and Calgary would be better on the powerplay, but weaker at 5v5.

The trade doesn't make sense for either of them.
- Monkeypunk

OK, if you try this scenario, Lindholm and Anderson, for Marner and Lilgerin, does that make it a more balanced deal? Calgary gets a young RD and Marner, Leafs get to balance up their team with two great talented players on good contracts. More plausible?

Ahh yes, the old "this is why we can't have nice things" argument. Contentment with losing while being entertained. Popular segment in the fanbase.
- fifty__missions

Ya its not that at all.

No Tkapoop tonight ...c'mon Vegas end this suffering. Lets get the offseason going.

Ya its not that at all.
- Fakepartofme

Just hear that one line a lot from a lot of the fanbase, fake. I know you're not a koolaid chugger.

You won't have to wait too long because the core isn't getting moved.
- Zezel

Settle in for another 1st round exit next year!

Gudas snowshowers Hill, and the Vegas D absolutely erase that little p.o.s.

God I'd love to see that here.

Mike Augello: Treliving Has To Ready To Move After Learning The Hard Way In Calgary
- mikeinbuffalo

Wow what a headline 😆😆😆😆😆😆

Ya its not that at all.
- Fakepartofme

Oh but it is young grasshopper

Gudas snowshowers Hill, and the Vegas D absolutely erase that little p.o.s.

God I'd love to see that here.
- fifty__missions

Best I can do is Wade Belak (Wish version)

Horsepoop call.

Micro fracture!

Settle in for another 1st round exit next year!
- Bullot

Like the 1st round exit this year?

Florida was robbed on the last goal by Vegas.
Ah sweet redemption for the Rielly goal no goal review.

Agreed.
Its been evident for a while.
Great talents to watch though.
- Fakepartofme

Let's do more of tripping all over ourselves trying to find reasons to blame everyone except Matthews. Then we can make him the highest paid player in the league, even though he doesn't deserve it in the slightest and won't commit long term.

Like the 1st round exit this year?
- Zezel

Funny how Trad Beleafing thought the Leafs actually played a better series the year they lost to Tampa.

Funny how Trad Beleafing thought the Leafs actually played a better series the year they lostbl to Tampa.
- fifty__missions

I agree. That's hockey. They outscored Tampa last year. Avalanche finally break through, out in the first round. Boston has the best season ever, out in the first round two years in a row. There's no way to lock in a Cup except to get kicks at the can.

I agree. That's hockey. They outscored Tampa last year. Avalanche finally break through, out in the first round. Boston has the best season ever, out in the first round two years in a row. There's no way to lock in a Cup except to get kicks at the can.
- Zezel

Kicks at the can, sure. But that's a little simplistic and reductive. It also requires shrewd management, Zez. And rising to the moment.

It requires shrewd management, Zez.
- fifty__missions

Exactly. That's why the Leafs are right there. The turnaround from the Nonis era to top contenders has been the first time since I've been a fan that we've had that.

OK, if you try this scenario, Lindholm and Anderson, for Marner and Lilgerin, does that make it a more balanced deal? Calgary gets a young RD and Marner, Leafs get to balance up their team with two great talented players on good contracts. More plausible?
- PrinceLH

So Calgary would still it's Selke candidate #1 Centre and it's top RHD and we would give them a #1 RW, who would definitely be their best offensive player, and they get a third pairing D-Man who could grow into a top-4 guy in a couple of years?

Now. Question1: What would be Calgary's impetus for such a deal? The addition of a guy like Marner is like getting Gaudreau on steroids in terms of offensive dynamics, but they lose their top Centre which ostensibly weakens them down the middle and they lose their top line RHD which ostensibly weakens their D. Are they retooling? By staying about the same age? Rebuilding? By making themselves weaker in the positions that are hardest to get?

I mean. Be realistic about the trade itself - not the value of Marner or Lindholm or Andersson.

It's not a hockey trade, it's an act of self-destruction.

Looks like the season will end tonight which is also my gf’s b-day… I’m gonna tell her that’s my gift for her lol

Looks like the season will end tonight which is also my gf’s b-day… I’m gonna tell her that’s my gift for her lol
- Dozzer

Kicks at the can, sure. But that's a little simplistic and reductive. It also requires shrewd management, Zez. And rising to the moment.
- fifty__missions

Rising to the moment is an awfully hard thing to measure or quantify in any meaningful way. Did MacKinnon fail to rise to the moment this year? Was it Makar?

Leon's worst game of the playoffs game in game 6 against Vegas where he was as ineffective as anyone.

What about Boston? Was it Pastrnak? Bergeron? Marchand? Same thing in Carolina - Ago? Necas? Kotkaniemi? Pesce?

Being there, growing, adapting, I think that's how you learn to rise to those moments - the thing is that, to your point, coming back with the same players would be just the definition of insanity if there was no growth or no change around them - but there is.

Don't get me wrong - there are things on the team that need to change, but I wouldn't move out a cornerstone piece unless it was a sensible hockey trade that helped in other areas and made cap room to strengthen in others.

I'd like reliable goaltending, and a harder defense. There's a reason our PK is always garbage in the playoffs. We don't protect the front of the net where people live during a playoff Power Play.

There's a reason our PK is always garbage in the playoffs.
- Monkeypunk

Yeah, it's even got a name. Justin Holl.

3-1 Vegas

Sam Bennett kind of sucks when his potential victims are 4 inches taller than him...