Bill Meltzer: Quick Hits: Andrae, Fletcher Comments, Dev Camp and More

Bill Meltzer: Quick Hits: Andrae, Fletcher Comments, Dev Camp and More
- bmeltzer

Thanks Bill

* Fletcher vehemently denied that the Flyers senior advisors wielded any sort of undue influence on major decisions let alone direct decision-making power. (Those of us who are close to the team already knew this but perception is often more powerful than reality)

Didn't listen to the podcast but your synopsis sounds like pure PR and moving the goal posts. Undue influence is as ambiguous as "the right way" or "BPA". It sounds impressive in press conferences but really means nothing. I don't recall anyone ever accusing Clarke of making decisions over Fletchers head or forcing himself on the Flyers. He denied something they were never accused of to make it sound like the accusers unreasonable. I see it all the time in certain politicians on social media all the time.

Fletcher is still really close with Clarke and I assume Scott valued Barber's input or else why have him as his hockey sherpa? All that really matters were that they were in the loop and trusted voices in the loop. Fletch, the ultimate risk averse GM, was and is not going to go against a Clarke (his personal mentor) recommendation, no matter how it's framed. The deference to the senior advisors was the issue.

The 2 remain close and you will never see an outburst from Clarke like he had against Hextall with Fletcher who goes along to get along and who has hopefully seen his GM career end. Hextall, I believe to this day, has not thrown Clarke under the bus.

Nobody expected Fletcher to throw the senior advisors under the bus and the fact that he hasn't shouldn't be used as confirmation bias. I will stick with an outside source, in this one particular instance, in Charlie.

Possible coup in Russia and Michkov likely in N.A. already.

Fedorov in '91 situation?

Draft just got even more interesting.

Didn't listen to the podcast but your synopsis sounds like pure PR and moving the goal posts. Undue influence is as ambiguous as "the right way" or "BPA". It sounds impressive in press conferences but really means nothing. I don't recall anyone ever accusing Clarke of making decisions over Fletchers head or forcing himself on the Flyers. He denied something they were never accused of to make it sound like the accusers unreasonable. I see it all the time in certain politicians on social media all the time.

Fletcher is still really close with Clarke and I assume Scott valued Barber's input or else why have him as his hockey sherpa? All that really matters were that they were in the loop and trusted voices in the loop. Fletch, the ultimate risk averse GM, was and is not going to go against a Clarke (his personal mentor) recommendation, no matter how it's framed. The deference to the senior advisors was the issue.

The 2 remain close and you will never see an outburst from Clarke like he had against Hextall with Fletcher who goes along to get along and who has hopefully seen his GM career end. Hextall, I believe to this day, has not thrown Clarke under the bus.

Nobody expected Fletcher to throw the senior advisors under the bus and the fact that he hasn't shouldn't be used as confirmation bias. I will stick with an outside source, in this one particular instance, in Charlie.
- Flyers_01

This has been discussed ad-nauseum and for some reason Bill still thinks the premise was that the senior advisors were involved in direct decision making. That has never been the case. The senior advisors influence involved how the team would operate. That it would be aggressive and act in a win now strategy. That it would be a cap team. As well as who was hired. If you influence who is hired, then you have influence on the team. That is an undeniable fact that is supported by many reliable sources.

Andrae is young, smallish, skilled and a good skater -- therefore, there is no way he is on the Flyers roster this year. His spot will be taken by either a 30 yo slug journeyman (Seeler) or the 28 yo cap dump they just acquired. Actually, I would not be surprised if that cap dump was actually their target in the trade.

Bill Meltzer: Quick Hits: Andrae, Fletcher Comments, Dev Camp and More
- bmeltzer

so in other words the flyers will have to pay the swedish team for Emil to stay.


"* Fletcher said there a lot off-ice issues with the team during his tenure. The issues were not fully patched up. He didn't go into specifics."

Care to speculate at all what he was referring too?

Hunter's skating will be a huge issue at the pro level.

Didn't listen to the podcast but your synopsis sounds like pure PR and moving the goal posts. Undue influence is as ambiguous as "the right way" or "BPA". It sounds impressive in press conferences but really means nothing. I don't recall anyone ever accusing Clarke of making decisions over Fletchers head or forcing himself on the Flyers. He denied something they were never accused of to make it sound like the accusers unreasonable. I see it all the time in certain politicians on social media all the time.

Fletcher is still really close with Clarke and I assume Scott valued Barber's input or else why have him as his hockey sherpa? All that really matters were that they were in the loop and trusted voices in the loop. Fletch, the ultimate risk averse GM, was and is not going to go against a Clarke (his personal mentor) recommendation, no matter how it's framed. The deference to the senior advisors was the issue.

The 2 remain close and you will never see an outburst from Clarke like he had against Hextall with Fletcher who goes along to get along and who has hopefully seen his GM career end. Hextall, I believe to this day, has not thrown Clarke under the bus.

Nobody expected Fletcher to throw the senior advisors under the bus and the fact that he hasn't shouldn't be used as confirmation bias. I will stick with an outside source, in this one particular instance, in Charlie.
- Flyers_01

what outburst? the one where he was asked a question at the end of an interview? that outburst?

This has been discussed ad-nauseum and for some reason Bill still thinks the premise was that the senior advisors were involved in direct decision making. That has never been the case. The senior advisors influence involved how the team would operate. That it would be aggressive and act in a win now strategy. That it would be a cap team. As well as who was hired. If you influence who is hired, then you have influence on the team. That is an undeniable fact that is supported by many reliable sources.
- MJL

still pushing this nonsense. flyers always have and always will be a cap team cliff.

what outburst? the one where he was asked a question at the end of an interview? that outburst?
- hello it's me 2050

Yup that out burst..😂

so in other words the flyers will have to pay the swedish team for Emil to stay.


"* Fletcher said there a lot off-ice issues with the team during his tenure. The issues were not fully patched up. He didn't go into specifics."

Care to speculate at all what he was referring too?

Hunter's skating will be a huge issue at the pro level.
- hello it's me 2050

I think he’s referring to the medical issues surrounding the team… all though with the dis function of the last decade it could be anything.

https://twitter.com/ADiMa...bYZWSmT1zt5eP5NEL6MQ&s=19

Seems like Michkov @ 7 is getting closer to reality

I don’t see Michkov dropping past 5 as I expect one of the following to happen:

1. San Jose takes him at 4
2. Washington or Detroit trades a boatload to go from 8 to 4 and takes him.
3. San Jose goes with Smith and Washington or Detroit makes a deal with Montreal to take him at 5.

I really don’t see a scenario where he makes it to 6, let alone 7.

An article from 2022 .. This is the kind of influence we are talking about .. discuss


https://theathletic.com/3...hn-tortorella-coach-hire/

Why the Flyers chose Tortorella

There were plenty of other intriguing head coaching candidates on the market with
impressive track records. Why was Tortorella ultimately theFlyers’ choice?
In short, it’s because he checked the key boxes for all three of the main groups in the organization: the Fletcher-run hockey operations department, the old guard advisers and ownership.

....

Then, there are the old guard advisers, namely Bob Clarke and Paul Holmgren. My understanding is that both have long been high on the possibility of Tortorella coaching the Flyers. I don’t believe they were especially active in this summer’s process, particularly in the weeks leading up to the final decision. But it was fairly clear that they would be on board with this hire, and Fletcher has long valued their opinions, particularly Clarke, who helped give him his start in the industry years ago.

I don’t see Michkov dropping past 5 as I expect one of the following to happen:

1. San Jose takes him at 4
2. Washington or Detroit trades a boatload to go from 8 to 4 and takes him.
3. San Jose goes with Smith and Washington or Detroit makes a deal with Montreal to take him at 5.

I really don’t see a scenario where he makes it to 6, let alone 7.
- BiggE

I think he could go as high as #2…

I think he could go as high as #2…
- landros 2

Maybe, but I’m pretty confident that Anaheim will go Fantilli at 2 and Columbus, who badly needs a 1C, will go Carlsson at 3.

More and more though, unless someone makes an incredible offer to move up, I think San Jose takes him at 4.

An article from 2022 .. This is the kind of influence we are talking about .. discuss


https://theathletic.com/3...hn-tortorella-coach-hire/

Why the Flyers chose Tortorella

There were plenty of other intriguing head coaching candidates on the market with
impressive track records. Why was Tortorella ultimately theFlyers’ choice?
In short, it’s because he checked the key boxes for all three of the main groups in the organization: the Fletcher-run hockey operations department, the old guard advisers and ownership.

....

Then, there are the old guard advisers, namely Bob Clarke and Paul Holmgren. My understanding is that both have long been high on the possibility of Tortorella coaching the Flyers. I don’t believe they were especially active in this summer’s process, particularly in the weeks leading up to the final decision. But it was fairly clear that they would be on board with this hire, and Fletcher has long valued their opinions, particularly Clarke, who helped give him his start in the industry years ago.
- Flyers_01

So Charlie didn’t like the hire? Should he be advising? He’s connecting dots that others closer and a hell of a lot more knowledgeable have long refuted. Of course Fletcher would have been recommended by Clarke… but Fletcher himself refuted there was any undue pressure or influence on everyday hockey op’s.. same with Hextall, he has never thrown Clarke under a bus because quite simply there has never been a reason to.

what outburst? the one where he was asked a question at the end of an interview? that outburst?
- hello it's me 2050

Clarke could've deferred on the question but made it clear that he viewed what happened Hextall's fault, he was blameless, and he was outraged. It was quite the unequivocal statement and dominated several news cycles.

It doesn't have to be a 20 minute tirade.

I agree Grier is a wildcard @ 4- does he bypass Michkov fot Smith? I don't see a scenerio where any team trades out of the top 6? Has it be done in the last 20 years? Why would this year be different? The issue Grier will have is probably centers go top 3. If by chance he breaks tradition and hypothetically trades to 8, he will be choosing from a tier below prospects because Michkov, Smith, and Leonard will be gone. Same goes for MTL. I do believe the rumor the Habs want Leonard. Interesting times.

Maybe, but I’m pretty confident that Anaheim will go Fantilli at 2 and Columbus, who badly needs a 1C, will go Carlsson at 3.

More and more though, unless someone makes an incredible offer to move up, I think San Jose takes him at 4.
- BiggE

Hopefully San Jose does take Michkov at 4, I really don't want to be seeing articles written for the next 3 years debating whether he is coming over.

I didn't listen to the podcast and I won't listen to the podcast cause I have absolutely ZERO interest in ANYTHING Chuckles has to say. I'm just glad he is gone!! May be the worst GM in Flyers history and may have been the worst GM in all of sports this past year. Don't go away mad...JUST GO AWAY!! Thanks!

Hopefully San Jose does take Michkov at 4, I really don't want to be seeing articles written for the next 3 years debating whether he is coming over.
- Glak18

AGREED!

I didn't listen to the podcast and I won't listen to the podcast cause I have absolutely ZERO interest in ANYTHING Chuckles has to say. I'm just glad he is gone!! May be the worst GM in Flyers history and may have been the worst GM in all of sports this past year. Don't go away mad...JUST GO AWAY!! Thanks!
- Phillywhiteout

I'm with you. I had enough of his nonsense when he had he job.

So Charlie didn’t like the hire? Should he be advising? He’s connecting dots that others closer and a hell of a lot more knowledgeable have long refuted. Of course Fletcher would have been recommended by Clarke… but Fletcher himself refuted there was any undue pressure or influence on everyday hockey op’s.. same with Hextall, he has never thrown Clarke under a bus because quite simply there has never been a reason to.
- landros 2

Lots to unpack there and once again moving the goal posts. There was no recommendation either way by Charlie in that snippet i pasted and the snippet was there solely to show how the "senior advisors" influence worked. He does go into some pros and cons later in the article but doesn't say that the Flyers shouldn't have hired Torts. He does a good job laying out the circumstances around the hire and I recommend you read it before just throwing out unsupported accusations.

Here let me help you out :

But based on my conversations with more than a few people within the organization as the season came to a close, the general belief was that the clubcould improve dramatically in 2022-23, given the right offseason roster adjustments, a strong coaching hire and (much) better injury luck. Basically,the goal for next season is to be back in the playoff hunt — not necessarily make it (though that would be the hope), but to at least be in the mix.Then, the Flyers believe, they can continue to chip away at the situation from there. Make trades, draft well, bring up prospects and slowly but surelyconstruct a contender.

If that is the plan, Tortorella makes a lot of sense in their attempt to execute it.

Clearly Charlie wasn't advocating against Torts in all situations. Once again this shows how people will make unsupported statements because they don't have a rational argument and it shows your bias.

Once again, as I previously posted, nobody expected Fletcher to throw Clarke under the bus no matter what happened.

In regards to Fletcher having nothing to throw Clarke under the bus for, who knows? Did anyone know about the Makar draft room situation until someone asked an angry Clarke the right question at the right time? As I also mentioned, Fletcher is the type of person who isn't going to make his own decisions, that's part of why he had so much support in the org. Every bad decision had multiple people's signatures on it, hence nobody was accountable for them.

I’m perfectly fine if Michkov goes prior to our picking at 7. Skip the drama.