Ben Shelley: Islanders trade Josh Bailey to Blackhawks, select five players in NHL Draft

Ben Shelley: Islanders trade Josh Bailey to Blackhawks, select five players in NHL Draft
- Ben Shelley

I wouldn’t be surprised to see Drury sign Bailey for cheap. That would be comic relict for you guys we do need RW depth

I wouldn’t be surprised to see Drury sign Bailey for cheap. That would be comic relict for you guys we do need RW depth
- Slimtj100

He comes with a song you’ll be required to sing.

He comes with a song you’ll be required to sing.
- Cptmjl

I wouldn’t be surprised to see Drury sign Bailey for cheap. That would be comic relict for you guys we do need RW depth
- Slimtj100

You will love Bailey. Never takes a shift off and never avoids contacts. A real warrior.

Carrying over:

Sillinger was a good pickup along with Poti. Taxes do not stop the Rangers. I think Lou is better with signing the vet and griding type player. Lou has not had success with signing the more skilled type of player in UFA. It's a new NHL now with more emphasis on speed and skill.
- ses111

Sillinger was a 35YO journeyman who had changed teams TWENTY SIX times before accepting a contract with the Isles. That was not a big signing. Poti was a so-so mid range signing, not a major market guy.
As an original six team, the Rangers are an anomally when it comes to UFA's. They have the league's largest marketing landscape. They are simply not comparable to the Isles. There have been agents who have candidly admitted to discouraging players from going to California and New York. Buffalo Bill's safety Jordan Poyer was recently quoted as saying if he were to go to free agency, he wants to go to a state that doesn't take half if his money. Miami Dolphins receiver Tyrek Hill admitted to signing with the Dolphins over the Jets because of taxes. By playing in Miami, he saves $2.7m per year in taxes compared to NY.. NY's state income tax is over 12.75%, by far the highest in sports. Plus, its one of the only states that taxes its professional atheketes for away games too. There are multiple locations with no income tax and an NFL team that could be options. Florida, Nevada, Tennessee, Texas and Washington all meet the criteria. If I'm a player looking for a big payday of say $9m, already knowing what Federal income taxes will do, an additional 13% definitely plays a factor.

Carrying over:


Sillinger was a 35YO journeyman who had changed teams TWENTY SIX times before accepting a contract with the Isles. That was not a big signing. Poti was a so-so mid range signing, not a major market guy.
As an original six team, the Rangers are an anomally when it comes to UFA's. They have the league's largest marketing landscape. They are simply not comparable to the Isles. There have been agents who have candidly admitted to discouraging players from going to California and New York. Buffalo Bill's safety Jordan Poyer was recently quoted as saying if he were to go to free agency, he wants to go to a state that doesn't take half if his money. Miami Dolphins receiver Tyrek Hill admitted to signing with the Dolphins over the Jets because of taxes. By playing in Miami, he saves $2.7m per year in taxes compared to NY.. NY's state income tax is over 12.75%, by far the highest in sports. Plus, its one of the only states that taxes its professional atheketes for away games too. There are multiple locations with no income tax and an NFL team that could be options. Florida, Nevada, Tennessee, Texas and Washington all meet the criteria. If I'm a player looking for a big payday of say $9m, already knowing what Federal income taxes will do, an additional 13% definitely plays a factor.
- keaner17

Sillinger and Poti were far from stars, but they were a big step up from what the Islanders were able to sign before and better than some of the recent UFA 's. Taxes are high in NY, but NY has a lot to offer for players that can afford to pay. We kept hearing if only the Islanders had a new building. What is the solution to the Islanders to be an attractive UFA destination? Should they move if they cannot compete with the Rangers? The Islanders are in a very tough spot if they want to compete for the Cup. I'm just done with the excuses with this team. If it's not the taxes, it's the Rangers, or Garth Snow or previous owners. The Islanders have to break out of this small-time mentality. They are one game away from making it to the Cup and the moves are to bring in old Chara and Parise. You are not serious when these are the moves to try to get you over the top. If the plan is to run this current team back, you are not serious about winning a Cup. If you make a Horvat type moves two years ago, then you are serious in trying to win. You have to be all in or you need to rebuild. Doing things half way is a tough way to Win a Cup.

Reading through the last thread, I found it interesting how many view the Hovart trade as the continued demise of this team. That the organization continually hurts its progress with trading assets and is cap hell because of it.

With regards to the Hovart trade. Lou basically claimed this seasons top UFA before he became a UFA. Because the Isles have had issues with UFA's in the past, what did Lou do? He traded a forward that that while he showed potential was inconsistent; he included a prospect that while he showed potential, he was not quite there yet and he traded a late first round pick that would probably not be ready for another 2 years.

For that he received a top two way center, with captain experience, scoring ability, faceoff strength. He also probably saved 2 million on the deal. Given the thin market and desperation of teams he probably would have gone fore higher.

Again, to me this not a mistake.

The mistakes point to the monies given to the bottom nine players. The team has over 6 million dollars in the four line plus Ross. Palmieri has been a bust at 5 million, so there is 11 million. Lee's contract should be in the 5 million range not 7 million...So there is 13 million...Is Barzal truly worth over 9 million??? To me not yet should be in the 8 million range...So there is 14 million

Bailey was a Snow signing, Ladd was a Snow signing...Those signings cost this team a 2nd in two years and a 3rd this year.

IMO if Barzal did not get hurt, the masses would not be focused on Horvat. As the chemistry that was developing would have probably really taken off.

The other glaring issue is that the Isles need a better scouting staff as their draft record sucks. I know it is a crap shoot but other teams find a way. They need to be better.

Tyler Bertuzzi is another player that could check a few of the boxes.

Reading through the last thread, I found it interesting how many view the Hovart trade as the continued demise of this team. That the organization continually hurts its progress with trading assets and is cap hell because of it.

With regards to the Hovart trade. Lou basically claimed this seasons top UFA before he became a UFA. Because the Isles have had issues with UFA's in the past, what did Lou do? He traded a forward that that while he showed potential was inconsistent; he included a prospect that while he showed potential, he was not quite there yet and he traded a late first round pick that would probably not be ready for another 2 years.

For that he received a top two way center, with captain experience, scoring ability, faceoff strength. He also probably saved 2 million on the deal. Given the thin market and desperation of teams he probably would have gone fore higher.

Again, to me this not a mistake.

The mistakes point to the monies given to the bottom nine players. The team has over 6 million dollars in the four line plus Ross. Palmieri has been a bust at 5 million, so there is 11 million. Lee's contract should be in the 5 million range not 7 million...So there is 13 million...Is Barzal truly worth over 9 million??? To me not yet should be in the 8 million range...So there is 14 million

Bailey was a Snow signing, Ladd was a Snow signing...Those signings cost this team a 2nd in two years and a 3rd this year.

IMO if Barzal did not get hurt, the masses would not be focused on Horvat. As the chemistry that was developing would have probably really taken off.

The other glaring issue is that the Isles need a better scouting staff as their draft record sucks. I know it is a crap shoot but other teams find a way. They need to be better.
- Nfdbulldawg

So you’re saying another team would’ve probably paid him ten million per year? Second half of your post I agree with.

Alex DeBrincat would be a nice piece flanking Hovart and Barzal.

So you’re saying another team would’ve probably paid him ten million per year? Second half of your post I agree with.
- Cptmjl

I think he could have gotten 10 for 7...He is basically giving up another big pay day...going more than 5 year. Just my opinion and seeing what is on the market. If not 10...9.5.

Nylander would also fit the bill on the left side of Horvat and Barzal.

Listening to Lou's end of season press conference he still thinks this is still a team of vets in their prime capable of competing for a cup. True some players come to play in the playoffs, but when you have forwards that average well under ten goals and receive regular ice time or are injured for long stretches of the 82 game schedule? The team still lacks athletic depth. We are not even close to a vet team like Dallas which brings forth a good young drafted player every year. Our farm team is not feeding us depth so we think a 35 yo player is the same guy he was 5 years ago. Bailey is one of the few older vets we have released.

Listening to Lou's end of season press conference he still thinks this is still a team of vets in their prime capable of competing for a cup. True some players come to play in the playoffs, but when you have forwards that average well under ten goals and receive regular ice time or are injured for long stretches of the 82 game schedule? The team still lacks athletic depth. We are not even close to a vet team like Dallas which brings forth a good young drafted player every year. Our farm team is not feeding us depth so we think a 35 yo player is the same guy he was 5 years ago. Bailey is one of the few older vets we have released.
- Fan101

This is the issue. Islanders are an older and slower team. The time to strike and go for it was two years ago after the last Tampa series. Young players make mistakes, but they are also more durable and have more upside. If you can at least use younger and cheaper talent for the 3rd and 4th lines, the more money you have for the top 6 in a Cap world.

Sillinger and Poti were far from stars, but they were a big step up from what the Islanders were able to sign before and better than some of the recent UFA 's. Taxes are high in NY, but NY has a lot to offer for players that can afford to pay. We kept hearing if only the Islanders had a new building. What is the solution to the Islanders to be an attractive UFA destination? Should they move if they cannot compete with the Rangers? The Islanders are in a very tough spot if they want to compete for the Cup. I'm just done with the excuses with this team. If it's not the taxes, it's the Rangers, or Garth Snow or previous owners. The Islanders have to break out of this small-time mentality. They are one game away from making it to the Cup and the moves are to bring in old Chara and Parise. You are not serious when these are the moves to try to get you over the top. If the plan is to run this current team back, you are not serious about winning a Cup. If you make a Horvat type moves two years ago, then you are serious in trying to win. You have to be all in or you need to rebuild. Doing things half way is a tough way to Win a Cup.
- ses111

"Sillinger and Poti were far from stars, but they were a big step up from what the Islanders were able to sign before and better than some of the recent UFA 's."
This just isn't true. I don't see how anyone can call a 35 year old forward who had changed teams 25 times a big step up. Also, remember that just the year before, the Isles had signed Miro Satan, a much bigger star than Witt, Poti and certainly Sillinger. The fact is the Isles have never been successful in free agency and the taxes are the one constant throughout.
I'll be explicit here in saying it's obviously not the ONLY factor, but it's a HUGE one. As I've said, you have agents and players publicly saying they avoid NY due to the taxes. Naturally there are some players who have other motivations like wife's who aspire for Manhattan opportunities. But if you're presented with the option of taking $3m less per season to play in NY as opposed to Florida, where are you going?

"Taxes are high in NY, but NY has a lot to offer for players that can afford to pay."
Take a look at the hundreds of thousands of people leaving NY. Players have the same concerns. Players go that go to the Rangers often will do so because of A; The allure of an original six and most heavily marketed US team in the NHL. Additionally, a lot of them do so because their significant others have Manhattan interests (Panarin).

I think you also have to consider this, Lou has successfully performed multiple trade and signs over the last few years with guys like Pageau, Palmieri and Horvat. He did so before they played significant time with the team, which really is akin to UFA types of transactions. So he's clearly sold a few guys. I just think that certain types of UFA's are unlikely to come to NY in the first place. Players who are in their 'prime contract stages' are typically looking to cash in on the best years of their career. That's the cash years. If I stand to make $9m a season, why am I going to sacrifice 13% of that to play in NY? Put yourself in that situation.

"Sillinger and Poti were far from stars, but they were a big step up from what the Islanders were able to sign before and better than some of the recent UFA 's."
This just isn't true. I don't see how anyone can call a 35 year old forward who had changed teams 25 times a big step up. Also, remember that just the year before, the Isles had signed Miro Satan, a much bigger star than Witt, Poti and certainly Sillinger. The fact is the Isles have never been successful in free agency and the taxes are the one constant throughout.
I'll be explicit here in saying it's obviously not the ONLY factor, but it's a HUGE one. As I've said, you have agents and players publicly saying they avoid NY due to the taxes. Naturally there are some players who have other motivations like wife's who aspire for Manhattan opportunities. But if you're presented with the option of taking $3m less per season to play in NY as opposed to Florida, where are you going?

"Taxes are high in NY, but NY has a lot to offer for players that can afford to pay."
Take a look at the hundreds of thousands of people leaving NY. Players have the same concerns. Players go that go to the Rangers often will do so because of A; The allure of an original six and most heavily marketed US team in the NHL. Additionally, a lot of them do so because their significant others have Manhattan interests (Panarin).

I think you also have to consider this, Lou has successfully performed multiple trade and signs over the last few years with guys like Pageau, Palmieri and Horvat. He did so before they played significant time with the team, which really is akin to UFA types of transactions. So he's clearly sold a few guys. I just think that certain types of UFA's are unlikely to come to NY in the first place. Players who are in their 'prime contract stages' are typically looking to cash in on the best years of their career. That's the cash years. If I stand to make $9m a season, why am I going to sacrifice 13% of that to play in NY? Put yourself in that situation.
- keaner17

Sillinger did have 26 goals his first year with the Islanders. Tom Poti put up 44 points.

I thought actors and athletes were woke and happy to pay higher taxes now? So even rich people do not like to pay high taxes? There are still plenty of safe places for them to live in NY. This is not like 9-5 people wanting to leave NY.

Lou did bring in JGP, Palms, and Bo. Palms specifically has had some nice moments and he also missed his fair share of games. JGP was not very good this past season and had no impact in the playoffs. Bo had a nice start and faded down the stretch.


You have not mentioned the solution as to how the Islanders can move from a middle of the pack team to an elite team with the Tax problem and living in the Rangers shadow and not being close enough to Manhattan.

Tyler Bertuzzi is another player that could check a few of the boxes.
- Nfdbulldawg

my fondest memory of him was the major he took against clutterbuck.

Sillinger did have 26 goals his first year with the Islanders. Tom Poti put up 44 points.

I thought actors and athletes were woke and happy to pay higher taxes now? So even rich people do not like to pay high taxes? There are still plenty of safe places for them to live in NY. This is not like 9-5 people wanting to leave NY.

Lou did bring in JGP, Palms, and Bo. Palms specifically has had some nice moments and he also missed his fair share of games. JGP was not very good this past season and had no impact in the playoffs. Bo had a nice start and faded down the stretch.


You have not mentioned the solution as to how the Islanders can move from a middle of the pack team to an elite team with the Tax problem and living in the Rangers shadow and not being close enough to Manhattan.
- ses111

So naturally each team has to lean on the combination of sound drafting/asset cultivation and free agents. I think if we break that down into trades/drafts/free agents, different teams can apply different percentages of emphasis on each based on their market and franchise circumstance. I think for a team like the Isles, more emphasis has to be on drafting and player cultivation, which it has not been. I think we're a long ways from heading in the right direction, unless a few of our present prospects massively overachieve.

LeBrun:
Talks still ongoing between Scott Mayfield’s camp and the Islanders as Saturday approaches.

This will be interesting for sure. I'm a bit nervous about just how badly the Isles want him to return.

So naturally each team has to lean on the combination of sound drafting/asset cultivation and free agents. I think if we break that down into trades/drafts/free agents, different teams can apply different percentages of emphasis on each based on their market and franchise circumstance. I think for a team like the Isles, more emphasis has to be on drafting and player cultivation, which it has not been. I think we're a long ways from heading in the right direction, unless a few of our present prospects massively overachieve.
- keaner17

I've been naive to think two ECF and a new building would help. I think the Islanders are going to have to go the old fashion way and build mostly through the draft. The need to find a young Jimmy D.

LeBrun:
Talks still ongoing between Scott Mayfield’s camp and the Islanders as Saturday approaches.

This will be interesting for sure. I'm a bit nervous about just how badly the Isles want him to return.
- keaner17

I'm not saying the Islanders should give up the season already, but I would try to save as much Cap space and picks for next offseason when they have more players coming off the Cap.

LeBrun:
Talks still ongoing between Scott Mayfield’s camp and the Islanders as Saturday approaches.

This will be interesting for sure. I'm a bit nervous about just how badly the Isles want him to return.
- keaner17

As has been mentioned here by many (including yourself I think), Mayfield's value is in the playoffs when the games are not called as close. I think Lou is smart to focus on the playoffs, so I'm okay if he signs Mayfield. Not sure how high I'd go, but if he keeps it under a $4 million/season cap hit, then I'm not gonna lose sleep over it.

This is the issue. Islanders are an older and slower team. The time to strike and go for it was two years ago after the last Tampa series. Young players make mistakes, but they are also more durable and have more upside. If you can at least use younger and cheaper talent for the 3rd and 4th lines, the more money you have for the top 6 in a Cap world.
- ses111

And EK thinks we should be going after another 38 player in Pierre-Édouard Bellemare is a French professional ice hockey center for the Tampa Bay Lightning of the National Hockey League. He has also played for the Philadelphia Flyers, Vegas Golden Knights and Colorado Avalanche. Wikipedia
Born: 1985 (age 38 years), Le Blanc-Mesnil, France

LeBrun:
Talks still ongoing between Scott Mayfield’s camp and the Islanders as Saturday approaches.

This will be interesting for sure. I'm a bit nervous about just how badly the Isles want him to return.
- keaner17

I am okay if he goes...The monies he is probably looking is out there. Lord only knows who is knocking on his door with a boat load of cash.