- Gr8daygo

Money Money Money!!

Which is the best way of building a professional sports team, except in hockey you need to wait a few years to see it bear fruit.
- Swedish_Jesus

But usually not as long as the Sabres, especially picking top 10 for a decade.

i know this isn't my question, but I think he did fine. His pro teams were talented losers, and that's on him.

Botts had elite players and nhl vets as a majority of his team and fumbled big time.

Adams started with a mostly very young core and is already better than any of bott's teams.

His management was awful and the only thing he was decent at was drafting.
- TheSabresTaco

I disagree

2017 roster:

https://www.hockeydb.com/...ons/teams/0000332017.html

2020 roster:

https://www.nhl.com/sabres/roster/2017

I agree, my point is the Sabres have been successfully drafting since 2017, how many years of drafting until it works?
- washedup20

context is in high demand here.

first of all, it's already working. nevermind thompson (and mittelstadt) taking 5 years to be successful. but you've got contributions from cozens, jj, jq, sam, power, mitts, and your trade assets like skinner and tuch. id consider thompson and krebs as 'prospects' when acquired.

considering most of them are around 21, and theyve vastly outperformed bott's entire tenure, id say it's in process of working.

it's trending up. it's finally, actually, trending up.

Glad Ben Bishop is enjoying his Developmental Roll now that he's off the Sabres payroll.

context is in high demand here.

first of all, it's already working. nevermind thompson (and mittelstadt) taking 5 years to be successful. but you've got contributions from cozens, jj, jq, sam, power, mitts, and your trade assets like skinner and tuch. id consider thompson and krebs as 'prospects' when acquired.

considering most of them are around 21, and theyve vastly outperformed bott's entire tenure, id say it's in process of working.

it's trending up. it's finally, actually, trending up.
- TheSabresTaco

Big Year for Trending, hopefully it keeps pointing up.

no one wants to be patient because 12 years is (frank)ing bullpoop.

but this team, this org is finally likeable. and they're doing good things with a majority roster of undeveloped players.

you want to talk about roster holes, that's fine. they exist and you're ignorant if you think otherwise.

but the core of this roster looks actually good.

Big Year for Trending, hopefully it keeps pointing up.
- Buff36

their offense is already good, and development refines a player's two way game.

the goalies are the only true question remaining. it bothers me that kev puts so much confidence in that tandem despite levi being "different".

context is in high demand here.

first of all, it's already working. nevermind thompson (and mittelstadt) taking 5 years to be successful. but you've got contributions from cozens, jj, jq, sam, power, mitts, and your trade assets like skinner and tuch. id consider thompson and krebs as 'prospects' when acquired.

considering most of them are around 21, and theyve vastly outperformed bott's entire tenure, id say it's in process of working.

it's trending up. it's finally, actually, trending up.
- TheSabresTaco

I think the prospect pool is fantastic, the youth on the NHL team is exciting to watch. They were promising back in 2018 as well.

https://sabrenoise.com/20...anks-buffalo-sabres-pool/

What % of the current roster will have to have career seasons to make the push for the team to get into the dance?

no one wants to be patient because 12 years is (frank)ing bullpoop.

but this team, this org is finally likeable. and they're doing good things with a majority roster of undeveloped players.

you want to talk about roster holes, that's fine. they exist and you're ignorant if you think otherwise.

but the core of this roster looks actually good.
- TheSabresTaco

You could say the same for the Sabres prior to covid, Eichel had them within 1 point of making the bubble.

I think the prospect pool is fantastic, the youth on the NHL team is exciting to watch. They were promising back in 2018 as well.

https://sabrenoise.com/20...anks-buffalo-sabres-pool/

What % of the current roster will have to have career seasons to make the push for the team to get into the dance?
- washedup20

if the team defense and goaltending improve, no one will need a career year. Because whatever they did last year on offense was well more than enough.

You could say the same for the Sabres prior to covid, Frolik had them within 1 point of making the bubble.
- washedup20

Ftfy

You could say the same for the Sabres prior to covid, Eichel had them within 1 point of making the bubble.
- washedup20

the team that missed the roster bubble playoffs was not a bunch of ~21 year olds.

'prior to covid' and 'the bubble' are two different seasons.

And both were garbage because botts didnt know how to assemble a team or hire a coach.

Similar to Adams, Botts trades were bipolar.

Botts did trade for Skinner and Tage, Adams traded for Tuch, and Levi.

The rest of the trades for both are questionable at best. Free Agency is tough to measure due to the bad brand name caused by location and ownership so I ignore that.
- washedup20

you're forgetting the Risto, addition by subtraction trade:

Risto

for

2021 1st (Rosen), Hagg, 2023 2nd (Walhberg)

you're forgetting the Risto, addition by subtraction trade:

Risto

for

2021 1st (Rosen), Hagg, 2023 2nd (Walhberg)
- turbo044

the issue we're stuck with is the past collection of players didn't work and didn't want to play here, so they were all swapped out with picks and prospects for the most part, who typically take a number of years to make a real impact.

Detroit has done the mixed method of drafting and signing, and they're no better than the Sabres and have less long term talent.

The only way you get to where you want to go is with a core of drafted talent. Or hand pick a veteran team in an expansion draft and trade all your futures for vets.

I will throw some Rose Petals on the ground when I see Clifton and Johnson be able to do what they where brought in for. They are still a ? Mark, will see how it plays out. Still give Adams a C- so far for the off-season. Still a lot of questions.

the team that missed the roster bubble playoffs was not a bunch of ~21 year olds.

'prior to covid' and 'the bubble' are two different seasons.

And both were garbage because botts didnt know how to assemble a team or hire a coach.
- TheSabresTaco

You're right about all of that, I was mixing seasons. Botts new team is a contender already though - Botts most likely had much more Pegula involvement though which possibly negatively affected his decision making.

Adams doesn't have any pressure on him and his boss is a vegetable so 2 very different environments.

You're right about all of that, I was mixing seasons. Botts new team is a contender already though - Botts most likely had much more Pegula involvement though which possibly negatively affected his decision making.

Adams doesn't have any pressure on him and his boss is a vegetable so 2 very different environments.
- washedup20

Botts and Ron got to pick a veteran team and add a top prospect to that immediately. Credit to them, they made some nice picks and paid some decent free agents. They don't have the offense prowess, and they knew they wouldn't, so they built a strong defensive system. They're not as aggressive as Vegas is to go all in, which is what it is. I think they're doing good over there.

Sometimes the grass ain’t greener on the other side though.

.
- Swedish_Jesus

we have not seen green grass, regarding sabres hockey, in a long long time

longest draught in nhl history

you're forgetting the Risto, addition by subtraction trade:

Risto

for

2021 1st (Rosen), Hagg, 2023 2nd (Walhberg)
- turbo044

Botts traded Kane and brought back R. Johnson - similar move.

You're right about all of that, I was mixing seasons. Botts new team is a contender already though - Botts most likely had much more Pegula involvement though which possibly negatively affected his decision making.

Adams doesn't have any pressure on him and his boss is a vegetable so 2 very different environments.
- washedup20

As far as terry and kevo, terry is probably a vegetable but I do think there's internal and external pressure on him to win. And I know it's his priority.

asking us to trust his plan for this season with the lack of goalie moves is highly questionable.

Botts traded Kane and brought back R. Johnson - similar move.
- washedup20

Kane was Montour

Botts bringing in Krueger sealed his fate, prior to that he was building almost identical to how Adams is building. Adams relying on a 20 year old goalie could be his downfall as well.

Dubas was/is a poor negotiator - that ruined him. I think what Trevling is doing in Toronto is exactly what they need, time will tell on that.
- washedup20

terry and kim brought in ralph by default, nobody else wanted to come in and coach the team with those owners

Botts and Ron got to pick a veteran team and add a top prospect to that immediately. Credit to them, they made some nice picks and paid some decent free agents. They don't have the offense prowess, and they knew they wouldn't, so they built a strong defensive system. They're not as aggressive as Vegas is to go all in, which is what it is. I think they're doing good over there.
- TheSabresTaco

Agreed Botts situation in Seattle is apples to oranges here, but it does prove his ability to build a roster that can contend (a lot of help from Ron, no doubt)

Kane was Montour
- TheSabresTaco

Yupp that's correct, I'm wrong again. Adams flushed that one down the toilet.