I am fixed
- dothedougie

Owner do it just because or for medical reasons?

Owner do it just because or for medical reasons?
- Feds91Stammer

Not the word I used or would use on Bergeron. I would say very good. Great players win multiple cups.
- glove_was_stuck

How many Cups did Marcel Dionne win?
Lindros?
Or... Bourque?
I'm sure there are plenty of "Great" players that do not have multiple Cups.

It's not exactly Bergeron's fault the Bruins goaltending went AWOL this year during the playoffs.
In previous Finals losses the Bruins were defeated by some very good teams.

How many Cups did Marcel Dionne win?
Lindros?
Or... Bourque?
I'm sure there are plenty of "Great" players that do not have multiple Cups.

It's not exactly Bergeron's fault the Bruins goaltending went AWOL this year during the playoffs.
In previous Finals losses the Bruins were defeated by some very good teams.
- Nasty_Duck

Did I at any point lay the blame at Bergeron's feet? What is your point here?

Great players find a way. Especially in winnable situations so 2010, 2013,2014, 2019 and 2023. One of these is an all time team the rest are not.

Bourque's losses were to 80's Oilers, and Lemieux/Jagr in a era where hockey ops and ownership didn't do poop to help them. They shipped guys out for speaking up. It's not comparable.

I don't know poop about Marcel Dionne nor will I pretend to.

EDIT: All these I referenced where epic chokes. Are you going to consider the 2 finals against Edmonton and the early 90 against Pittsburgh chokes? They were hilariously outgunned.

Not the word I used or would use on Bergeron. I would say very good. Great players win multiple cups.
- glove_was_stuck

There are plenty of great hockey players with only one Stanley Cup victory or zero. Is Ovechkin not a great hockey player? Bourque? Selanne?

Hockey is still a team sport and the Cup is not easy to win.

Patrice Bergeron is a great player and i could argue that all day long.

There are plenty of great hockey players with only one Stanley Cup victory or zero. Is Ovechkin not a great hockey player? Bourque? Selanne?

Hockey is still a team sport and the Cup is not easy to win.

Patrice Bergeron is a great player and i could argue that all day long.
- Mahewman

Yes but have they been part of multiple historic or just plain awful chokes?

Yes but have they been part of multiple historic or just plain awful chokes?
- glove_was_stuck

I mean, the Capitals have won several presidents trophy's under Ovechkin and still have only made it to the final once... so yes?

I mean, the Capitals have won several presidents trophy's under Ovechkin and still have only made it to the final once... so yes?
- Mahewman

So 1 of 3 fits the argument then sure. But, when was the last time an Ovechkin led team was up 3 games in a series and gagged it away? Bergeron has been part of the leadership in 2. It's a tough look. It makes me question the guy's legacy whether he's wearing our laundry or not.

EDIT: Especially at his age. It is time to move forward.

So 1 of 3 fits the argument then sure. But, when was the last time an Ovechkin led team was up 3 games in a series and gagged it away? Bergeron has been part of the leadership in 2. It's a tough look. It makes me question the guy's legacy whether he's wearing our laundry or not.

EDIT: Especially at his age. It is time to move forward.
- glove_was_stuck

I don’t like the capitals enough to go look for a particular series losses but I know they have not had many deeps runs.

So 1 of 3 fits the argument then sure. But, when was the last time an Ovechkin led team was up 3 games in a series and gagged it away? Bergeron has been part of the leadership in 2. It's a tough look. It makes me question the guy's legacy whether he's wearing our laundry or not.

EDIT: Especially at his age. It is time to move forward.
- glove_was_stuck

WOW, just wow...

I don’t like the capitals enough to go look for a particular series losses but I know they have not had many deeps runs.
- Mahewman

It makes it sound like I hate the guy. Which I don't. But the let downs have been brutal. Can't really turn the other cheek and drink the kool-aid anymore.

It makes it sound like I hate the guy. Which I don't. But the let downs have been brutal. Can't really turn the other cheek and drink the kool-aid anymore.
- glove_was_stuck

I mean, I can only ask that they put it on the line each year and they do. The hard losses are part of hockey and the NHL in general unfortunately. There is very real parity at the top of the league. I don’t think Patrice’s desire or leadership would ever be questioned by any of the people he’s ever played with.

It makes it sound like I hate the guy. Which I don't. But the let downs have been brutal. Can't really turn the other cheek and drink the kool-aid anymore.
- glove_was_stuck

I know you dont hate him. I think its perfectly reasonable to question the legacy of the core. Not going to provide a scapegoat, but I am also not going to pin it all on Bergeron. His legacy as a leader, a great player and a kind-hearted human being are cemented for me.

First ballot hall of famer. I expect a jersey retirement and the works. Heck even if he doesnt get his jersey retired, I am willing to bet no one on the bruins dares try to wear number 37, just because of the reverence he holds with the team and professional hockey in general.

I understand the pain though. I'm just not willing to pin it all on him. The core failed to get it done, many times. This is true. But through that pain I still see a genuine class act and one of the finest contributors to the sport.

10 years from now and beyond, the pain will be gone, but the good Bergy left will still be around.

I know you dont hate him. I think its perfectly reasonable to question the legacy of the core. Not going to provide a scapegoat, but I am also not going to pin it all on Bergeron. His legacy as a leader, a great player and a kind-hearted human being are cemented for me.

First ballot hall of famer. I expect a jersey retirement and the works. Heck even if he doesnt get his jersey retired, I am willing to bed no one on the bruins dares try to wear number 37, just because of the reverence he holds with the team and professional hockey in general.

I understand the pain though. I'm just not willing to pin it all on him. The core failed to get it done, many times. This is true. But through that pain I still see a genuine class act and one of the finest contributors to the sport.

10 years from now and beyond, the pain will be gone, but the good Bergy left will still be around.
- dothedougie

Agreed.

Did I at any point lay the blame at Bergeron's feet? What is your point here?

Great players find a way. Especially in winnable situations so 2010, 2013,2014, 2019 and 2023. One of these is an all time team the rest are not.

Bourque's losses were to 80's Oilers, and Lemieux/Jagr in a era where hockey ops and ownership didn't do poop to help them. They shipped guys out for speaking up. It's not comparable.

I don't know poop about Marcel Dionne nor will I pretend to.

EDIT: All these I referenced where epic chokes. Are you going to consider the 2 finals against Edmonton and the early 90 against Pittsburgh chokes? They were hilariously outgunned.
- glove_was_stuck

I don't consider those Bruins losses to the Oilers "chokes".

But you are the one who set the criteria that a great player MUST have won multiple Cups. There are way too many factors to use that as a measuring stick - many factors not in the players control.

Here's a brief summary of the Cup-less Marcel Dionne.

Marcel Dionne recorded 50 goals or more in a season 6 times, and 100 points or more in a season 8 times during his career. Internationally Dionne played for the Canadian national team at two Canada Cups and three World Championships. Dionne was inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame in 1992. In 2017 Dionne was named one of the '100 Greatest NHL Players' in history.

I know you dont hate him. I think its perfectly reasonable to question the legacy of the core. Not going to provide a scapegoat, but I am also not going to pin it all on Bergeron. His legacy as a leader, a great player and a kind-hearted human being are cemented for me.

First ballot hall of famer. I expect a jersey retirement and the works. Heck even if he doesnt get his jersey retired, I am willing to bet no one on the bruins dares try to wear number 37, just because of the reverence he holds with the team and professional hockey in general.

I understand the pain though. I'm just not willing to pin it all on him. The core failed to get it done, many times. This is true. But through that pain I still see a genuine class act and one of the finest contributors to the sport.

10 years from now and beyond, the pain will be gone, but the good Bergy left will still be around.
- dothedougie

Here, here!

Did I at any point lay the blame at Bergeron's feet? What is your point here?

Great players find a way. Especially in winnable situations so 2010, 2013,2014, 2019 and 2023. One of these is an all time team the rest are not.

Bourque's losses were to 80's Oilers, and Lemieux/Jagr in a era where hockey ops and ownership didn't do poop to help them. They shipped guys out for speaking up. It's not comparable.

I don't know poop about Marcel Dionne nor will I pretend to.

EDIT: All these I referenced where epic chokes. Are you going to consider the 2 finals against Edmonton and the early 90 against Pittsburgh chokes? They were hilariously outgunned.
- glove_was_stuck

First things first the bruins with Bergeron are in the serious contender category, without him they fall to a lower level simply because they don’t have the cap space to replace him. They can sign him to a 1+ mil bonus laden contract like last year.

Now I’m confused with your view of his all time status. He is not a great hall of fame player because he has only one cup and his record setting team lost in the playoffs ?
Because if that is your reasoning there are a lot of great players that would have trouble with your criteria. I have seen the bruins lose 7 of 8 finals so I go way back.
Orr was on a record breaking team in 71 that was supposed to win the cup easy. That loss to Montreal 1st round is my most disappointing ever. Then in 74 Orr loses to the expansion flyers. He only won 2 cups. Bobby Hull won 1 cup . Lost as favorites to Rangers,Bruins, Habs in finals up 3-2. Ranger great Rod Gilbert never won. Just a couple of examples. Are they not great ? Is their leadership in question? Ok I’ll stop the old timers. How about McDavid. Leadership question? Not great enough ?

Did I at any point lay the blame at Bergeron's feet? What is your point here?

Great players find a way. Especially in winnable situations so 2010, 2013,2014, 2019 and 2023. One of these is an all time team the rest are not.

Bourque's losses were to 80's Oilers, and Lemieux/Jagr in a era where hockey ops and ownership didn't do poop to help them. They shipped guys out for speaking up. It's not comparable.

I don't know poop about Marcel Dionne nor will I pretend to.

EDIT: All these I referenced where epic chokes. Are you going to consider the 2 finals against Edmonton and the early 90 against Pittsburgh chokes? They were hilariously outgunned.
- glove_was_stuck

Did I at any point lay the blame at Bergeron's feet? What is your point here?

Great players find a way. Especially in winnable situations so 2010, 2013,2014, 2019 and 2023. One of these is an all time team the rest are not.

Bourque's losses were to 80's Oilers, and Lemieux/Jagr in a era where hockey ops and ownership didn't do poop to help them. They shipped guys out for speaking up. It's not comparable.

I don't know poop about Marcel Dionne nor will I pretend to.

EDIT: All these I referenced where epic chokes. Are you going to consider the 2 finals against Edmonton and the early 90 against Pittsburgh chokes? They were hilariously outgunned.
- glove_was_stuck

So i guess your bruins are chokers, epic chockers.

So i guess your bruins are chokers, epic chockers.
- LFS

At least they aren’t morally corrupt mouth breathers.

So i guess your bruins are chokers, epic chockers.
- LFS

He’s back to talk hockey!

In both of those finals losses they had some pretty epic injuries that the core was playing through while the Hawks and Blues were still very healthy.
Kinda hard to win when your best players are running at 50% capacity.

In both of those finals losses they had some pretty epic injuries that the core was playing through while the Hawks and Blues were still very healthy.
Kinda hard to win when your best players are running at 50% capacity.
- T-Rask

I don't even put t down to injuries. They lost to some good teams.

So i guess your bruins are chokers, epic chockers.
- LFS

You guess? I put it in black and white poop head. Have you worked your way up to making fries yet, stupid?

First things first the bruins with Bergeron are in the serious contender category, without him they fall to a lower level simply because they don’t have the cap space to replace him. They can sign him to a 1+ mil bonus laden contract like last year.

Now I’m confused with your view of his all time status. He is not a great hall of fame player because he has only one cup and his record setting team lost in the playoffs ?
Because if that is your reasoning there are a lot of great players that would have trouble with your criteria. I have seen the bruins lose 7 of 8 finals so I go way back.
Orr was on a record breaking team in 71 that was supposed to win the cup easy. That loss to Montreal 1st round is my most disappointing ever. Then in 74 Orr loses to the expansion flyers. He only won 2 cups. Bobby Hull won 1 cup . Lost as favorites to Rangers,Bruins, Habs in finals up 3-2. Ranger great Rod Gilbert never won. Just a couple of examples. Are they not great ? Is their leadership in question? Ok I’ll stop the old timers. How about McDavid. Leadership question? Not great enough ?
- johnnypie

Let me try to clarify cause yes I suppose it's a bit scatterbrained. Which I am(thanks drugs!)

Number one first and foremost I'm sick of watching this team choke, the lack of culpability FROM ANYONE involved, and the continuation of the status quo(meaning they're going to (frank)ing do it again). I've had it.

Bergeron's Hockey career is hall of fame. Sure. fine. No argument from me there. Achieved at every level, gold medals, a cup, Selke trophies. But I question the guys leadership. Disagree with me, don't care. He has been part of this leadership and core for all of the massive disappointments & chokes for the last 20 years. There has been something wrong with this group the entire time. I challenge you to convince me otherwise.

Not only Bergeron, but I question the whole lot of them. Marchand, Pastrnak, Krejci, McAvoy, Lindholm. Marchand, Pastrnak, & Krejci especially have been there for most to all of it as well. Can these guys actually win? Are these guys the right players or the right mix? It doesn't look good. I don't think so.

Bergeron's had a fantastic career and he's been great to watch. But I believe it is time for a change. This a bridge year, rip the band-aid off now. Get it over with. Otherwise your putting your hopes into a guy who is too old, and who has lead the way in multiple, crushing, and embarrassing failures. The age and pedigree are not reassuring. Not at these ticket prices, not with cost of going into Boston, not with having to stomach Jack Edwards and NESN (except for Billy Jaffe) 82 times.