I'm probably being a tad generous but like a Vincent Trocheck. 2nd line dude. Kinda can kill penalties.
- Pelle31Forever

That sounds like a really realistic ceiling projection. I see some similarity between him and Marco Rossi. Both smallish heady players with creativity and pretty responsible defensively. One lost a year to injury and one to long Covid. Both had slow career starts. Frost has to prove he can build on what he did in the 2nd half and Rossi has to prove that he can play in the NHL. Both have old school coaches that may not put them in the best position to succeed.

I'm probably being a tad generous but like a Vincent Trocheck. 2nd line dude. Kinda can kill penalties.
- Pelle31Forever

If Frost turns into a Vincent Trocheck I would take that and run for the hills! I don't see it to be honest. Doubt he will ever be a penalty killer and if I'm not mistaken Trocheck is a pretty physical player. Frost will NEVER be known as a physical player. It's just not in his DNA or build.

he did in juniors and LHV
- hello it's me 2050

And a little bit last year... til he had a turnover (which was as much Patrick Brown's fault as Frost's) and was yanked off the PK the rest of the season for all but one late-season game

What strategies do they currently use? What organization would you have them model after and please explain in detail the strategies they use. What does torts have to do with the organizational strategies? Elaborate
- Peter Richards

::crickets::

maybe bill can answer for him

What’s your convincing? A 16 game sample size 😂. He’s played only one season at center, albeit in a higher role, there’s no reason he can’t improve offensively. I’ve stated I see him as a 3C that can matchup well and chip in offensively. I’m not looking for the guy to get 45-50 points
- ClaudeFather

No actually my sample size is 98 games.


That's enough to see what a player's raw natural skills are. While he can certainly still improve as a player. I doubt that at 24 going on 25, he is going to develop the raw natural skill to be a high scorer. To be a relatively high scoring center in the 2nd line range, a center needs the raw natural skill and ability to carry the puck and create and distribute. Or he can be a shooting center. Setting up in open areas of the ice, playing with a playmaking and creative winger and finishing plays as a goal scorer. I don't see any signs of that with Cates in terms of raw and natural skill level. His attributes are clearly his high level of hockey sense and defensive positioning. He has some offensive skill but the best attributes he has shown as an offensive player, has been the ability to be F1 on the forecheck and crashing the net offensively. That's why I think he has the upside as a 2nd line winger but probably as a center, he is a strong 3C. If he develops better offensively then I think he can, then maybe he could be a 2C down the line

Then we have to look at the center depth you say we don't have. The Flyers want Gauthier to play center. Next season, is he a center or a winger? If he is a center, you now have Couturier, Frost, Gauthier and Cates. Are we going to call that a surplus and move a player? Couturier due to age would be the obvious but that could be a tough move. If not, are the Flyers in a position to jettison young talent? I don't think so.

Develop young players to their upside and their best position. Not based on team need. Like I said previously. It's debatable what that is for Cates, but I think it's at wing.

No actually my sample size is 98 games.


That's enough to see what a player's raw natural skills are. While he can certainly still improve as a player. I doubt that at 24 going on 25, he is going to develop the raw natural skill to be a high scorer. To be a relatively high scoring center in the 2nd line range, a center needs the raw natural skill and ability to carry the puck and create and distribute. Or he can be a shooting center. Setting up in open areas of the ice, playing with a playmaking and creative winger and finishing plays as a goal scorer. I don't see any signs of that with Cates in terms of raw and natural skill level. His attributes are clearly his high level of hockey sense and defensive positioning. He has some offensive skill but the best attributes he has shown as an offensive player, has been the ability to be F1 on the forecheck and crashing the net offensively. That's why I think he has the upside as a 2nd line winger but probably as a center, he is a strong 3C. If he develops better offensively then I think he can, then maybe he could be a 2C down the line

Then we have to look at the center depth you say we don't have. The Flyers want Gauthier to play center. Next season, is he a center or a winger? If he is a center, you now have Couturier, Frost, Gauthier and Cates. Are we going to call that a surplus and move a player? Couturier due to age would be the obvious but that could be a tough move. If not, are the Flyers in a position to jettison young talent? I don't think so.

Develop young players to their upside and their best position. Not based on team need. Like I said previously. It's debatable what that is for Cates, but I think it's at wing.
- MJL

A strong 3C is better than a marginal interchangeable second line winger. You’re proving my point here. And I never said he was a second line center, idk who you are arguing with here.

And a little bit last year... til he had a turnover (which was as much Patrick Brown's fault as Frost's) and was yanked off the PK the rest of the season for all but one late-season game
- bmeltzer

sensing you think Torts is a little tough on Frost

A strong 3C is better than a marginal interchangeable second line winger. You’re proving my point here. And I never said he was a second line center, idk who you are arguing with here.
- ClaudeFather

I don't see him as a winger as a marginal interchangeable second line winger. I see him as a player that really good teams need in the top 6. A player that can play both ways, strong on the forecheck and a strong compliment to high offensive players to give a line balance.

Are you not following the discussion? It's about what his upside is. As a center or as a winger. I didn't state that you did say he was a second line center. It's discussing what level he can attain at each position.

If one thinks he's going to be a 3rd liner regardless of what position he plays. Then, yeah, you keep him at center. That's the point though. I think he has 2nd line upside as a winger versus ultimately being a 3rd line center on a top team due to the inability to carry and distribute the puck as well as score goals at a high rate.

If Frost turns into a Vincent Trocheck I would take that and run for the hills! I don't see it to be honest. Doubt he will ever be a penalty killer and if I'm not mistaken Trocheck is a pretty physical player. Frost will NEVER be known as a physical player. It's just not in his DNA or build.
- Phillywhiteout

There are differences, for sure. But Trochek has played with much more skilled players. So if Frost develops and plays with better players, I don’t think you can say he can’t get close to that.

I don't see him as a winger as a marginal interchangeable second line winger. I see him as a player that really good teams need in the top 6. A player that can play both ways, strong on the forecheck and a strong compliment to high offensive players to give a line balance.

Are you not following the discussion? It's about what his upside is. As a center or as a winger. I didn't state that you did say he was a second line center. It's discussing what level he can attain at each position.

If one thinks he's going to be a 3rd liner regardless of what position he plays. Then, yeah, you keep him at center. That's the point though. I think he has 2nd line upside as a winger versus ultimately being a 3rd line center on a top team due to the inability to carry and distribute the puck as well as score goals at a high rate.
- MJL

I disagree, this isn’t a good hockey team and he probably doesn’t even crack the top 6 at wing, nevermind a good hockey team.

There are differences, for sure. But Trochek has played with much more skilled players. So if Frost develops and plays with better players, I don’t think you can say he can’t get close to that.
- Minnyhock

That could be a good point. I think Frost could certainly put up comparable numbers, but don't think he would be a Trochek type player. For instance, Trochek had 182 hits versus 85 for Frost. He also had 58 PIMs compared to 24 for Frost. Also, SOG were 225 versus 155. Perhaps Frost matures into a more complete player, but only time will tell. We know that's what Torts wants and I do too.

he did in juniors and LHV
- hello it's me 2050

A lot of players did a lot of things before coming to the NHL. I just think the other centers are more trusted.

Well we know Frost doesn’t do much of this. We know Morgan Frost is likely not going to transform into our next version of Peter Forsberg or Claude Giroux but he’s probably our most important forwards in terms of making plays. I was thinking something along the lines of Marc Savard before his career ending injury.

Not a knock on Frost or Savard.
- SuperSchennBros

Savard is a extreme stretch imo. He was an assist machine.

Matt Brown has had a good camp, and is likely to get an AHL contract with the Phantoms. Kind of a player in the Matt Read mold, although Read was more versatile and NHL ready as a UFA out of college.

Barkey is a player the Flyers are very excited about. He had an excellent Rookie Camp, points in both Rookie Games and made a few good plays in the scrimmages. He's very small and is two years from turning pro but he's a player Jonesy in particular likes: very good wheels, total PITA to play against, always chirping, some offensive upside. He's more of a player to watch come 2005-06 or 2006-07 but they really like him and see him as a potential top nine NHL forward someday.
- bmeltzer

That’s way different than PETA.

Savard is a extreme stretch imo. He was an assist machine.
- Peter Richards

I’m not disagreeing. I do feel like Marc Savard wasn’t one of the sexier names as a playmaking center in his time in the NHL though. I am looking for a comparison for Frost, if anyone has one.

Any news on whether team president Keith Jones will have input on which kids make the team?

With his hockey acumen, and modern approach to the game one would hope they take his thoughts seriously.

I disagree, this isn’t a good hockey team and he probably doesn’t even crack the top 6 at wing, nevermind a good hockey team.
- ClaudeFather

Again, this isn't about now, it's projecting for the future. I disagree with you. I think Cates can be a strong 2nd line winger in this league and score at a higher rate in that role then he can at center while keeping his strong play away from the puck.

Again, this isn't about now, it's projecting for the future. I disagree with you. I think Cates can be a strong 2nd line winger in this league and score at a higher rate in that role then he can at center while keeping his strong play away from the puck.
- MJL

Not just about now. All set here

sensing you think Torts is a little tough on Frost
- wcorvette

Soon Frost will send a complaint to the wizard Bissonette. Than we have NHLPA with Walsh & Hainsey in Philadelphia searching for clues.

Again, this isn't about now, it's projecting for the future. I disagree with you. I think Cates can be a strong 2nd line winger in this league and score at a higher rate in that role then he can at center while keeping his strong play away from the puck.
- MJL

How many more points? This past season you said he didn’t have the puck skills to play on the power play. He either has the skills or he doesn’t. Which is it?

Not just about now. All set here
- ClaudeFather

A lot of ifs there. We have more wingers than centers at the moment. Some trade may happen. But in a few years I still see us being deeper at wing than center.

I don't get the Tort hates Frost issue either. Torts first praised him when he said he came along way from where he was at the beginning of last season to where he ended up. Torts and management know there is more there for Frost to give and they have high expectations for him.

If a player does not play up to expectations should coach want him around?
- WhiskeyMan

William Karlsson went from 6 to 43 goals after he left Torts doghouse! He just has a negative effect on some players, that can compromise their careers.

William Karlsson went from 6 to 43 goals after he left Torts doghouse! He just has a negative effect on some players, that can compromise their careers.
- THE EVIL WITHIN

That team over performed that year. Since he only topped 20 goals in one season of five so far.

Just saw yesterday Torts presser. Personally, I feel this is the one time he wasn’t unfair of his assessment of anyone, including Frost.
- SuperSchennBros

The "flyer" "fans" on YouTube loves his pressers. With no Brooks in the flyer media core i think he will keep his cool for awhile.

That team over performed that year. Since he only topped 20 goals in one season of five so far.
- Peter Richards

He got 24 the season after. Than 2 seasons with injuries.