Look, I definitely think Torts is being a little harsh on Frost. He put in the work to improve in the second half of last season and had the numbers to show for it.

But I also think the fanbase needs to relax a little bit and stop acting like we are stunting the development of Giroux 2.0. I understand he's had some injuries early in his career and has been part of some dysfunctional teams in the past few years, but this guy was drafted 6 years ago. If he was such an integral piece of a future contender, I think that most any organization would realize that by now and do everything in their power to ensure he gets every chance.

Do you think Morgan Frost can be a number 1 or 2 center on a cup contender? A top 6 forward? I've seen nothing to indicate that to be the case. Ok, if that's true, then are we going to develop him as a bottom 6 player? I don't think he is that either.

Just food for thought,
- gypsypunk92

He can absolutely be a top-six forward on a good club. The same as Tippett can.

Frost is 24 years old, he is not a young kid anymore. He is expected to be a professional and show up every single shift. If he can't figure this out by now, he never will.
- jd250

I don’t think it’s personal with Tortorella, even though I think he’s a bit of a psycho and a dinosaur, I just think he’s trying to be the most competitive every night that he can be, with what’s in front of him. Frosty is one of the most talented players in the organization skill wise, but he’s wildly inconsistent when it matters. I’d like to know how many of his points came again bottom teams vs top teams in the first half vs the last half of last year.

I just can't fathom anyone have personal issues with Frost. Super nice kid, very coachable (per Yeo, AV, Lappy, and Rocky Thompson).
- bmeltzer

IMO, the team should be focused on 25-26 and beyond and which players on the current team should be considered in that mix. The remaining players should be played in a manner that maximizes trade value.

It's highly unlikely that Torts is the coach when the team is ready to try to be a Cup contender.

Frost, meanwhile, could very well be a 2nd or 3rd line player for that team. At a minimum, he should be developed as a trade asset. While it is up to him to be consistent, I can't really see that he's done anything that deserves this capricious treatment from Torts. It comes off as personal and petty and I really doubt it is going to make Frost a better player. At least not with the Flyers. I can just see his trade value being lowered with him becoming a high calibre player for another team.

Frost is 24 years old, he is not a young kid anymore. He is expected to be a professional and show up every single shift. If he can't figure this out by now, he never will.
- jd250

Just stop. He is a kid. He has played 1 full season in the NHL and 160 games total. Sam Ersson is also 24, should he be held to the same ridiculous criteria? How about 26 year old Felix Sandstrom? God, using your criteria he should be out of the league already.

I don’t think it’s personal with Tortorella, even though I think he’s a bit of a psycho and a dinosaur, I just think he’s trying to be the most competitive every night that he can be, with what’s in front of him. Frosty is one of the most talented players in the organization skill wise, but he’s wildly inconsistent when it matters. I’d like to know how many of his points came again bottom teams vs top teams in the first half vs the last half of last year.
- Dave21Brown

Frost scored a lot of his points against non-playoff teams. But you can look at Tippett's career high 27 goals last year and this what you'll find: roughtly two-thirds came against non-playoff teams. That includes Columbus (four goals), Buffalo (hat trick game), Montreal (four goals), the Ducks (one GP, one goal, two points) and the Coyotes (one goal, three points in two games).

Lastly, I don't want to hear "he only came on when the season was basically over". It was 2/3 of a season, not a month. Beyond that, was he playing in different games than the rest of the Flyers? No, he was not.

I don't care that Tippett -- or Frost -- did a lot more damage against high-GAA teams than ones that are stingy in allowing goals. That's the case for many good NHL players.

That Frost had two four-point games in the same season against Arizona, something no other NHL player did last year, is not somehow a negative. At absolute worst, it shows the ability is there. Torts should focus on unlocking the next step, as a good coach is supposed to do.

I'll have to watch the replay, going to the BC vs. Denver game tonight. My first look at Gauthier and Rizzo live this year. Really looking forward to it.
- jd250

Ill be watching. Watching Leonard, Smith, Perrault, and Gauthier all together is a sight to behold. Last night against RPI was a domination clinic.

I don't agree at all. Torts always says, once I see it from you I want to see it from all the time. That is why Frost sits, because Torts sees what he can do and he just doesn't do it consistently enough. That is what Torts means by "it's not that Frost is playing bad, it's just that other players are playing better". He means other players are playing more consistently shift after shift. Look at Brink as an example. Brink is noticeable every time he is on the ice. Frost for parts of games is completely invisible. That is the difference.
- jd250

The problem with that is that an informed fan can see that Frost is not the only player with that issue. He gives other players a pass. It is obvious that Tortorella has some kind of irrational issue with Frost. Tortorella has been that way his entire coaching career. It's hysterical that you bring up Brink, who no doubt has played well but he hasn't come close to doing what Frost has done over a much larger sample size of games. Last year over the final 60 games of the season, Frost put up 16 goals and 24 assists. Which projected over a full NHL season is scoring at a 55 point pace. Your assessment of Frost has always been simply wrong. From small errors to major ones, such as Frost will never be more that an AHL player. You don't know the difference.

He can absolutely be a top-six forward on a good club. The same as Tippett can.
- bmeltzer

That's fair. Maybe I'm being a bit too hard on him thinking he can't be a top 6 forward.
But if his position is center, do you think he can be a #2 center on a consistently competing playoff team? I think that's where my doubt is.

That said, I do agree he should be playing. Just trying to look at it from a different light.

IMO, the team should be focused on 25-26 and beyond and which players on the current team should be considered in that mix. The remaining players should be played in a manner that maximizes trade value.

It's highly unlikely that Torts is the coach when the team is ready to try to be a Cup contender.

Frost, meanwhile, could very well be a 2nd or 3rd line player for that team. At a minimum, he should be developed as a trade asset. While it is up to him to be consistent, I can't really see that he's done anything that deserves this capricious treatment from Torts. It comes off as personal and petty and I really doubt it is going to make Frost a better player. At least not with the Flyers. I can just see his trade value being lowered with him becoming a high calibre player for another team.
- GeorgeBailey

I can 100% see him signing an ext

Look, I definitely think Torts is being a little harsh on Frost. He put in the work to improve in the second half of last season and had the numbers to show for it.

But I also think the fanbase needs to relax a little bit and stop acting like we are stunting the development of Giroux 2.0. I understand he's had some injuries early in his career and has been part of some dysfunctional teams in the past few years, but this guy was drafted 6 years ago. If he was such an integral piece of a future contender, I think that most any organization would realize that by now and do everything in their power to ensure he gets every chance.

Do you think Morgan Frost can be a number 1 or 2 center on a cup contender? A top 6 forward? I've seen nothing to indicate that to be the case. Ok, if that's true, then are we going to develop him as a bottom 6 player? I don't think he is that either.

Just food for thought,
- gypsypunk92

With the Flyers overflowing surplus of young skilled and talented players. They can afford to sit one out and let him stagnate.

I don’t think it’s personal with Tortorella, even though I think he’s a bit of a psycho and a dinosaur, I just think he’s trying to be the most competitive every night that he can be, with what’s in front of him. Frosty is one of the most talented players in the organization skill wise, but he’s wildly inconsistent when it matters. I’d like to know how many of his points came again bottom teams vs top teams in the first half vs the last half of last year.
- Dave21Brown

If he led the team in scoring last season over a 5 month period. Led the team in ES scoring overall and he is wildly inconsistent. What does that say about the other players who scored less?

I’ve seen Frost’s game get better as the season progressed last year. He probably should be in the lineup. I’d also like to see Brink and Foerester in the lineup too. Other than the 4th line, who comes out for that to happen?

That's fair. Maybe I'm being a bit too hard on him thinking he can't be a top 6 forward.
But if his position is center, do you think he can be a #2 center on a consistently competing playoff team? I think that's where my doubt is.

That said, I do agree he should be playing. Just trying to look at it from a different light.
- gypsypunk92

A top NHL team, a true contending team, needs a minimum of 3 scoring lines. In today's NHL, there isn't the traditional top 6/bottom 6 separation that there used to be.

That's fair. Maybe I'm being a bit too hard on him thinking he can't be a top 6 forward.
But if his position is center, do you think he can be a #2 center on a consistently competing playoff team? I think that's where my doubt is.

That said, I do agree he should be playing. Just trying to look at it from a different light.
- gypsypunk92

Bottom line is Frost should be playing. After 2 games there was a handful of forwards who were either extremely ineffective or inconsistent, and Frost wasn’t even the worst of the bunch IMO. In the last 2 games at least 3 of those have shown improvement. Frost can’t show improvement or work his way back with zero opportunity. It’s shoddy development.

It doesn’t really matter if Frost stays a center down the line; the Flyers made the call to develop him there last season. Maybe when they get Gauthier one of Frost or Cates moves to LW. Either way it will be great that they have added versatility.

Frost and Brink are the only primary playmakers. It’s not like, with three scoring lines, that is excessive.

Bottom line is Frost should be playing. After 2 games there was a handful of forwards who were either extremely ineffective or inconsistent, and Frost wasn’t even the worst of the bunch IMO. In the last 2 games at least 3 of those have shown improvement. Frost can’t show improvement or work his way back with zero opportunity. It’s shoddy development.

It doesn’t really matter if Frost stays a center down the line; the Flyers made the call to develop him there last season. Maybe when the get Gauthier one of Frost or Cates moves to LW. Either way it will be great that they have added versatility.

Frost and Brink are the only primary playmakers. It’s not like with three scoring lines, that is excessive.
- NC Flyers Fan

Ive always felt Frost's skillset would be better served at wing. A little less defensive responsibility.

Frost scored a lot of his points against non-playoff teams. But you can look at Tippett's career high 27 goals last year and this what you'll find: roughtly two-thirds came against non-playoff teams. That includes Columbus (four goals), Buffalo (hat trick game), Montreal (four goals), the Ducks (one GP, one goal, two points) and the Coyotes (one goal, three points in two games).

Lastly, I don't want to hear "he only came on when the season was basically over". It was 2/3 of a season, not a month. Beyond that, was he playing in different games than the rest of the Flyers? No, he was not.

I don't care that Tippett -- or Frost -- did a lot more damage against high-GAA teams than ones that are stingy in allowing goals. That's the case for many good NHL players.

That Frost had two four-point games in the same season against Arizona, something no other NHL player did last year, is not somehow a negative. At absolute worst, it shows the ability is there. Torts should focus on unlocking the next step, as a good coach is supposed to do.
- bmeltzer

Firstly, good to know. Secondly, I don’t get the continual comparisons between Frost and Tippett? Just as a general statement. They play completely different positions, they play completely different games, they have completely different responsibilities, to me it’s just nonsensical.

As a center Frosts responsibilities are way different than Tippett’s both offensively and defensively. Frost needs to play a skill game and distribute the puck while scoring as well. Tippett needs to play a heavier game in more difficult areas of the ice. Yes they both need to create offensively but they need to do so in very different fashions.

I’ve seen Frost’s game get better as the season progressed last year. He probably should be in the lineup. I’d also like to see Brink and Foerester in the lineup too. Other than the 4th line, who comes out for that to happen?
- RustyPipes

Torts best option is probably to rotate scratches for the time being. Just like the defense was unlikely to go all season with only Risto missing games, it’s unlikely all forwards will avoid illness or injury the entire year. Best wishes to Staal for his recovery, btw.

Ive always felt Frost's skillset would be better served at wing. A little less defensive responsibility.
- MBFlyerfan

From a coaching perspective I don’t really think Tortorella gives a crap about players as individuals. On a personal level I think he absolutely does but from a coaching point he’s just of the mindset play better and you’ll play. I think he loves head-games though, as I said early, he’s a bit of a psycho.

Ive always felt Frost's skillset would be better served at wing. A little less defensive responsibility.
- MBFlyerfan

I would be interested to see what a Frost-Gauthier-Michkov line looks like down the road….assuming of course that the Flyers attempt to develop Frost as a playmaker by, you know, playing him.

Ive always felt Frost's skillset would be better served at wing. A little less defensive responsibility.
- MBFlyerfan

me too, but mainly because he sucks at faceoffs.

The problem with that is that an informed fan can see that Frost is not the only player with that issue. He gives other players a pass. It is obvious that Tortorella has some kind of irrational issue with Frost. Tortorella has been that way his entire coaching career. It's hysterical that you bring up Brink, who no doubt has played well but he hasn't come close to doing what Frost has done over a much larger sample size of games. Last year over the final 60 games of the season, Frost put up 16 goals and 24 assists. Which projected over a full NHL season is scoring at a 55 point pace. Your assessment of Frost has always been simply wrong. From small errors to major ones, such as Frost will never be more that an AHL player. You don't know the difference.
- MJL

We'll see how many points Brink has this year. I have a feeling he will surpass Frost's totals last year.

Frost will play when he has earned it. Kid just signed a new contract and has been lacklustre. Unlike most of you I think Tortorella is a good coach and I love that management came and gave him the power to be involved in personnel changes. You will see this team play hard this year. I think those of you wishing for a top 5 pick are out of luck. Play the best players available and try to win. If they stay healthy they will be a bubble team

From a coaching perspective I don’t really think Tortorella gives a crap about players as individuals. On a personal level I think he absolutely does but from a coaching point he’s just of the mindset play better and you’ll play. I think he loves head-games though, as I said early, he’s a bit of a psycho.
- Dave21Brown

I don't agree, Torts is wired to win, rebuild or no rebuild. Thus he will put the best lineup he can out there in order to win. If he thought Frost could help the team win over other players, Frost would be in the lineup whether Torts likes him or not. There are no head games here. Torts says Frost needs to play better. Frost also has been quoted as saying he needs to play better. It's really that simple. Frost has been outplayed but other players on the team, though I think Foerster has not played well either.

I don't agree, Torts is wired to win, rebuild or no rebuild. Thus he will put the best lineup he can out there in order to win. If he thought Frost could help the team win over other players, Frost would be in the lineup whether Torts likes him or not. There are no head games here. Torts says Frost needs to play better. Frost also has been quoted as saying he needs to play better. It's really that simple. Frost has been outplayed but other players on the team, though I think Foerster has not played well either.
- jd250

Please explain how a player can “earn it” or “play better” from the press box.

I don't agree, Torts is wired to win, rebuild or no rebuild. Thus he will put the best lineup he can out there in order to win. If he thought Frost could help the team win over other players, Frost would be in the lineup whether Torts likes him or not. There are no head games here. Torts says Frost needs to play better. Frost also has been quoted as saying he needs to play better. It's really that simple. Frost has been outplayed but other players on the team, though I think Foerster has not played well either.
- jd250

Funny, at the end of the preseason, Torts thought he had played fine.

https://youtu.be/9IYhg2V5KpU?si=fnkQVa_lfdmBStEK