I don't know if Graves wanted to go to Pittsburgh, but he would have been a priority for me if I were a GM.
- Monkeypunk

Gravedigger!

Ya, I'm curious why though. If it was because of the location or the culture of the team.
- lemieux_66

It's because he wanted to be out of the spotlight and go to a pub after games and play his guitar. Actually.

David Kampf has one job and he has done it poorly so far this season. The John Klingberg and Ryan Reaves deals have drawn the bulk of the scrutiny, but Brad Treliving committed $9.6-million to a defence-only 4C who in Year 1 of 4 already isn’t earning his keep.

Ouch.

On the ice for zero goals for and nine goals against.

He provides no value whatsoever.
- Atomic Wedgie

Actually, he is leading the team in hits

On the ice for zero goals for and nine goals against.

He provides no value whatsoever.
- Atomic Wedgie

Actually, he is leading the team in hits

https://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?reportType=season&seasonFrom=20172018&seasonTo=20232024&gameType=2&position=D&playerPlayedFor=franchise.5&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=goals&page=0&pageSize=50

This is actually pretty embarrassing.
- AdamFrench

That is (frank)ing bad. For those too lazy to click on the link :



These are the top-10 goal scorers on the Leafs D over the last five years.

That is (frank)ing bad. For those too lazy to click on the link :



These are the top-10 goal scorers on the Leafs D over the last five years.
- GalacticStone

Don't get me wrong, it's franking horrific, but it should be sorted by goals per game.

I seriously think you might be the only person who thinks the Leafs d depth is fine.
- fifty__missions

This is a bit of a semantics argument - but I think their _depth_ is fine. I think the primary pieces are the problem.

So let's say we like Rielly as our primary puck mover. And perhaps we can say that we like Liljegren as a secondary puck mover. Now we need the primary pieces to actually be defensemen - guys who win physical battles, clear the front of the net, hit guys in corners, make guys pay if they want to stand in front.

McCabe is a poor man's version of that. Giordano, Brodie and Klingberg are not that at all. Neither for the record is Timmins as we know.

But if my _depth_ is guys like Timmins, Benoit, Lagesson, Niemela, Kokkonen and so on, I'm less concerned because I'd have 3 or 4 guys in the top-6 who are already actually defensemen.

So realistically the problem is less the depth and more 3 of 4 of the primary players.

It doesn't change your point that the defense as a whole is a problem, but if the argument is our depth - honestly it's not too shabby. It's the first 6 where you have a problem!

I don't know if Graves wanted to go to Pittsburgh, but he would have been a priority for me if I were a GM.
- Monkeypunk

The thing with Klingerbergs signing is Tre can still use his cap hit for different D. While I have fully given up on him Tre gave himself a clear out.

If his hips don't lie, I think he would be a help to any team in the league. Even on one leg he was better than most of the Rangers when they blew up
- AdamFrench

The biggest question is what would he want in salary?

If he's willing to come for $2M or under, it's a no-brainer.

The biggest question is what would he want in salary?

If he's willing to come for $2M or under, it's a no-brainer.
- Atomic Wedgie

I don't think he gets a cent over 2M.

I'd guess 1.5M like what Kane got in EDM.

I don't think its about the money for him this year.

Don't get me wrong, it's franking horrific, but it should be sorted by goals per game.
- Atomic Wedgie

I couldn't sort by goals per game, but here is points per game.

The Leafs were getting CAVED when Holl was playing 5v5. Paying the guy 3.4x3 to maybe be an effective penalty killer is something else.
- mjones242

Imagine if we keep that bum and still signed Klingberg

Hey I haven't been watching much hockey. What happened to Minten?
- Aaron_85

He sucks.

#Leafs lines during practice Nov. 9/23

Knies-Matthews-Marner
Bertuzzi-Tavares-Nylander
Robertson-Domi-Jarnkok
Gregor-Kampf-Reaves
Holmberg

Rielly-Brodie
Giordano-McCabe
Benoit-Lagesson



Back to back nights blah blah blah, will be said the reasoning for Klingberg sitting but looks like he is out friday.

I'd bet Holmberg is in for Reaves Sat and if leafs win friday Klingberg will stay out.

Going to be interesting if they go and add Kane. Another forward so have to wonder what that will do there and who comes out.

Honestly Klank was never a good add at all. There is no insulating him and anyone paired is going to just look brutal. Havent replaced Muzz and it shows.

This point you make the easy move. Keefe goes and you get the reset in systems and how we play. Someone like Gallant who has a strong structure to the game. Odds are just getting rid of the blender game would start to help. Then Tree can go to work trying to fix things best he can.

Don't get me wrong, it's franking horrific, but it should be sorted by goals per game.
- Atomic Wedgie

or even better; goals per 60

Leafs need him back badly
- GreatGigInTheSky

🤦

He's better than what's on the ice right now, yes. But on a good d group, he's a 5-6 guy.

November 9th 2023.

The day Leafs fans started to miss Justin Holl a little.
- Scabeh

Never

David Kampf has one job and he has done it poorly so far this season. The John Klingberg and Ryan Reaves deals have drawn the bulk of the scrutiny, but Brad Treliving committed $9.6-million to a defence-only 4C who in Year 1 of 4 already isn’t earning his keep.

Ouch.
- dozerD10

A whole lot worse than poorly, I'd say.

People keep female doging about Reaves, and yeah, he's not playing great, but Kampf is more often than not the one (frank)ing up which leads to goals against.

Going to be interesting if they go and add Kane. Another forward so have to wonder what that will do there and who comes out.

Honestly Klank was never a good add at all. There is no insulating him and anyone paired is going to just look brutal. Havent replaced Muzz and it shows.

This point you make the easy move. Keefe goes and you get the reset in systems and how we play. Someone like Gallant who has a strong structure to the game. Odds are just getting rid of the blender game would start to help. Then Tree can go to work trying to fix things best he can.
- Roadrunner75

I'd love Patty Kane.

Just my thought is you can tell Kane he will be given an opportunity on the top PP, whether it be a 5 F group or sending Marner to PP2, but at the end of the day you can't guarantee him anything.

If he ends up on line 3 with Domi and is getting PP2 time is he happy? I think leafs are the best spot for him in terms of the spotlight and getting himself another big contract but its a little risky on the scoresheet for him.

🤦

He's better than what's on the ice right now, yes. But on a good d group, he's a 5-6 guy.
- fifty__missions

Learn hockey, idiot. And also learn that a good player coming back into the lineup pushes bad players down and out of the lineup.

Jog on.

David Alter
@dalter

Of note, Ryan Reaves was very late coming off the ice following practice today. If 11F and 7D is a go, which is how things are trending, expect Reaves to be scratched.

This is a bit of a semantics argument - but I think their _depth_ is fine. I think the primary pieces are the problem.

So let's say we like Rielly as our primary puck mover. And perhaps we can say that we like Liljegren as a secondary puck mover. Now we need the primary pieces to actually be defensemen - guys who win physical battles, clear the front of the net, hit guys in corners, make guys pay if they want to stand in front.

McCabe is a poor man's version of that. Giordano, Brodie and Klingberg are not that at all. Neither for the record is Timmins as we know.

But if my _depth_ is guys like Timmins, Benoit, Lagesson, Niemela, Kokkonen and so on, I'm less concerned because I'd have 3 or 4 guys in the top-6 who are already actually defensemen.

So realistically the problem is less the depth and more 3 of 4 of the primary players.

It doesn't change your point that the defense as a whole is a problem, but if the argument is our depth - honestly it's not too shabby. It's the first 6 where you have a problem!
- Monkeypunk

The whole Rielly can’t defend bit seems really overstated to me. He’s +6 on a team that is -3 and certainly seems to be getting the toughest assignments. It sure doesn’t look like he’s being propped up by Brodie - kind of the opposite in fact. He’s not a banger and things worked really well when he was paired with Schenn but he actually is a defenseman.

You may have numbers that suggest otherwise but based on what I’ve seen, he’s right up with Matthews, Nylander and JT in terms of best performers so far this year.

Leafs need McCabe to show he can play decently on a second pair and for someone (Gio?) to babysit Klingberg on the 3rd.

David Alter
@dalter

Of note, Ryan Reaves was very late coming off the ice following practice today. If 11F and 7D is a go, which is how things are trending, expect Reaves to be scratched.
- Atomic Wedgie

Might as well. It’s either that or 11/6.