- eichiefs9

But we’ll still have Mayfield for 6 more years after this one.

He looks like a newborn moose calf trying awkwardly to move around.

I just wanna know who we were protecting when we let Devon Toews walk. Seidenberg? Boychuck? Andy Greene? What a terrible (frank)ing decision.
- jmo16

Pretty sure Lou traded him for draft picks? But yeah, that's not looking like one of Lou's better trades these days........even if the Isles were tight up against the cap.

That’s the problem right there. You have contracts like Engvall’s and Mayfield’s. Love Varlamov but four years? Great we have a few million coming off after this season but we doubled down on stupidity with these long term (frank)ing bozo contracts. Mayfield for seven years?

Go ahead fire Lambert but the real problem at this point is Lou. You can bring trotz back and you’d probably get the same result. Missed the playoffs the season before last, miraculously squeezed in on a Penguins collapse last season only to be embarrassed in the playoffs, then doubles down on the same lineup. That’s Lou’s fault not Lambert’s and now we’re stuck with these ridiculous contracts. Same thing he did to the Leafs and Devils. Time for the old geezer to be put out to pasture.
- Cptmjl

Ultimately this is how I'm looking at it:

Most of the blame here lies with Lou. He traded away assets and traded away assets and now the 2024 draft will likely be our first 1st round pick since 2019. He doubled-down on a lot of these trades and extended the players long-term. Some of them were/are fine, some are very much not.

That said: I would imagine that Lou, certainly in the beginning, was working under orders from ownership to build this team into a competitive playoff team because they needed asses in seats when it was time to move to UBS. I'm sure that they were willing to sacrifice some of the future to make sure that they had people filling UBS in the early seasons because they needed the cash flow after spending lots of money to give the fans a beautiful new arena. So, assuming that's true, I would say that ownership shares some portion of the blame here.

But it's becoming pretty obvious this team is cooked and I really don't see a path to being able to accelerate the rebuild (this season) because of this team's cap situation. It's going to be a long dark road back to competitiveness.

Pretty sure Lou traded him for draft picks? But yeah, that's not looking like one of Lou's better trades these days........even if the Isles were tight up against the cap.
- JohnScammo

Two 2nd rounders

Pretty sure Lou traded him for draft picks? But yeah, that's not looking like one of Lou's better trades these days........even if the Isles were tight up against the cap.
- JohnScammo

Devon had speed and skill so he had to go.

Ultimately this is how I'm looking at it:

Most of the blame here lies with Lou. He traded away assets and traded away assets and now the 2024 draft will likely be our first 1st round pick since 2019. He doubled-down on a lot of these trades and extended the players long-term. Some of them were/are fine, some are very much not.

That said: I would imagine that Lou, certainly in the beginning, was working under orders from ownership to build this team into a competitive playoff team because they needed asses in seats when it was time to move to UBS. I'm sure that they were willing to sacrifice some of the future to make sure that they had people filling UBS in the early seasons because they needed the cash flow after spending lots of money to give the fans a beautiful new arena. So, assuming that's true, I would say that ownership shares some portion of the blame here.

But it's becoming pretty obvious this team is cooked and I really don't see a path to being able to accelerate the rebuild (this season) because of this team's cap situation. It's going to be a long dark road back to competitiveness.
- eichiefs9

These are good points chief, but could Lou have not done better than bringing in Palms and JGP? Ownership also does not have to twist Lou’s arm in going for it. Lou brought in the same type of players and players without a lot of skill except for Bo. Lou likes the grinding type 3rd and 4th line players.

Even the hockey writers were wondering what Lou was doing bringing the same team back that was not good enough. It was dumb if not laziness. The rest of the league is trying to improve. You cannot stand pat.
- ses111

He is 80 years old. I'm absolutely shocked no one is mentioning this as a major factor. I work with the elderly and let me just say that over 90% of them have issues in their decision making processes. This guy should not be running an NHL franchise and it shows.

He is 80 years old. I'm absolutely shocked no one is mentioning this as a major factor. I work with the elderly and let me just say that over 90% of them have issues in their decision making processes. This guy should not be running an NHL franchise and it shows.
- Mancalledsting

I’ve mentioned it. It’s not a knock and many of us will go through it. Trying to be a GM and President or being the leader of the free world are entirely different stories.

Ultimately this is how I'm looking at it:

Most of the blame here lies with Lou. He traded away assets and traded away assets and now the 2024 draft will likely be our first 1st round pick since 2019. He doubled-down on a lot of these trades and extended the players long-term. Some of them were/are fine, some are very much not.

That said: I would imagine that Lou, certainly in the beginning, was working under orders from ownership to build this team into a competitive playoff team because they needed asses in seats when it was time to move to UBS. I'm sure that they were willing to sacrifice some of the future to make sure that they had people filling UBS in the early seasons because they needed the cash flow after spending lots of money to give the fans a beautiful new arena. So, assuming that's true, I would say that ownership shares some portion of the blame here.

But it's becoming pretty obvious this team is cooked and I really don't see a path to being able to accelerate the rebuild (this season) because of this team's cap situation. It's going to be a long dark road back to competitiveness.
- eichiefs9

100% and the bold is exactly why the Horvat trade was a mind numbingly stupid one. This past draft was the time to accelerate the “rebuild”.

Christ if we didn’t sign what we did and did a mini retool this past season we probably don’t need a rebuild. Now we need a rebuild with no cap space. It’s incredible how badly Lou (frank)ed this team long term bringing back the same team who performed poorly two consecutive seasons. How much more proof did he need?

Two 2nd rounders
- eichiefs9

Said it then we would regret that trade. It was incredible how many were on board with it here because he had a poor first playoffs. “We were against the cap”. Give me a (frank)ing break you find another way to jettisone cap rather then trade an obviously talented, young, offensive, defenseman.

These are good points chief, but could Lou have not done better than bringing in Palms and JGP? Lou brought in the same type of players and players without a lot of skill except for Bo. Lou likes the grinding type 3rd and 4th line players.
- ses111

I honestly have no issue with anything regarding Pageau. My opinion, for a couple years before they got him, was that he'd be a perfect fit on a Trotz/Lou team and I still believe that.

That said, the cap was flat for a long time and unfortunately after they retained Lee/Pelech/Pulock there wasn't a ton of flexibility to bring in any better talent. Not to mention acquiring that kind of talent isn't really super easy.

Nothing is black and white. They kind of had to keep Lee around but it was pretty obvious once he signed his deal that it was going to be an anchor on the back-end of it and that's where we are now. He should really be bought out in June if they can't find anyone that wants to take that deal without the Islanders retaining significant money or giving up high draft picks to facilitate the trade.

There's no fast path to rebuilding unless some of the guys with NTC's want out and are willing to waive. Unless they really (frank) over Barzal and Sorokin and trade them before their trade protection kicks in.

I honestly have no issue with anything regarding Pageau. My opinion, for a couple years before they got him, was that he'd be a perfect fit on a Trotz/Lou team and I still believe that.

That said, the cap was flat for a long time and unfortunately after they retained Lee/Pelech/Pulock there wasn't a ton of flexibility to bring in any better talent. Not to mention acquiring that kind of talent isn't really super easy.

Nothing is black and white. They kind of had to keep Lee around but it was pretty obvious once he signed his deal that it was going to be an anchor on the back-end of it and that's where we are now. He should really be bought out in June if they can't find anyone that wants to take that deal without the Islanders retaining significant money or giving up high draft picks to facilitate the trade.

There's no fast path to rebuilding unless some of the guys with NTC's want out and are willing to waive. Unless they really (frank) over Barzal and Sorokin and trade them before their trade protection kicks in.
- eichiefs9

JGP is a nice player but not the impact type player that makes a huge difference and one that gets a big goal in the playoffs.

I said at the time no more than 5 years for Lee and you lose him. So be it. Going back to Garth, the focus was on 3rd and 4th line players and not keeping up to the rest of the league. Islanders simply have not done enough in the offseason to improve and it has caught up to them. We can use all the excuses in the world.

JGP is a nice player but not the impact type player that makes a huge difference and one that gets a big goal in the playoffs.

I said at the time no more than 5 years for Lee and you lose him. So be it. Going back to Garth, the focus was on 3rd and 4th line players and not keeping up to the rest of the league. Islanders simply have not done enough in the offseason to improve and it has caught up to them. We can use all the excuses in the world.
- ses111

Ask Ranger fans if they think he’s that player.

Pageau is a fine player. I was happy with that trade BUT if you can’t make it happen without giving up Toews then you don’t do it. Young, fairly cost controlled, offensive defenseman don’t exactly grow on trees.

Ask Ranger fans if they think he’s that player.

Pageau is a fine player. I was happy with that trade BUT if you can’t make it happen without giving up Toews then you don’t do it. Young, fairly cost controlled, offensive defenseman don’t exactly grow on trees.
- Cptmjl

Ask Tampa and the Canes.

You need shooters and players that score against very good defenses in the playoffs.

Devon is wasted on the Islanders because they are so locked down and especially under Barry.

Ask Ranger fans if they think he’s that player.

Pageau is a fine player. I was happy with that trade BUT if you can’t make it happen without giving up Toews then you don’t do it. Young, fairly cost controlled, offensive defenseman don’t exactly grow on trees.
- Cptmjl

Since trading Toews he's averaged .68ppg, which is about 55pts over an 82 game season

Since trading Toews he's averaged .68ppg, which is about 55pts over an 82 game season
- eichiefs9

Devon would never put up these numbers with the Islanders.

Devon would never put up these numbers with the Islanders.
- ses111

The flip side is if he were here he would more then likely be getting more pp time and offensive zone time/starts then he does with the Avs. Not saying he doesn’t with them I’m sure he does without looking it up but I would bet it would be exponentially more with the Islanders because other then Dobson we have no other player like him.

The flip side is if he were here he would more then likely be getting more pp time and offensive zone time/starts then he does with the Avs. Not saying he doesn’t with them I’m sure he does without looking it up but I would bet it would be exponentially more with the Islanders because other then Dobson we have no other player like him.
- Cptmjl

Dobson and Toews both playing an attacking style would stress out the button up Islanders.

I'm not against a fire sale at this point. I am against Lou holding said fire sale. I'm almost at the point where I don't want them to get a freaking point on this trip and they blow it up at Thanksgiving.

Dobson and Toews both playing an attacking style would stress out the button up Islanders.
- ses111

They would certainly improve the zone exits because right now they have virtually nobody that can break out of the zone with possession. I'd have skipped signing Mayfield and Engvall and tried to find a way to fit Gostisbehere this summer. Would have been an element on the blueline that they were sorely lacking.

They would certainly improve the zone exits because right now they have virtually nobody that can break out of the zone with possession. I'd have skipped signing Mayfield and Engvall and tried to find a way to fit Gostisbehere this summer. Would have been an element on the blueline that they were sorely lacking.
- eichiefs9

The job is yours chief. Engvall can skate but he has no talent. Lou should have found more players on one year deals so you buy time for the prospects.

Ultimately this is how I'm looking at it:

Most of the blame here lies with Lou. He traded away assets and traded away assets and now the 2024 draft will likely be our first 1st round pick since 2019. He doubled-down on a lot of these trades and extended the players long-term. Some of them were/are fine, some are very much not.

That said: I would imagine that Lou, certainly in the beginning, was working under orders from ownership to build this team into a competitive playoff team because they needed asses in seats when it was time to move to UBS. I'm sure that they were willing to sacrifice some of the future to make sure that they had people filling UBS in the early seasons because they needed the cash flow after spending lots of money to give the fans a beautiful new arena. So, assuming that's true, I would say that ownership shares some portion of the blame here.

But it's becoming pretty obvious this team is cooked and I really don't see a path to being able to accelerate the rebuild (this season) because of this team's cap situation. It's going to be a long dark road back to competitiveness.
- eichiefs9

I think also worth noting is Lou’s red right hand, which as we all know doesn’t fly in the day and age. The younger generation don’t wanna play for a guy with rules for days.

I’m still not understanding the firing of a future HOF coach, whereby this mediocre roster made the ECF twice, and replaced him with a rookie coach. To add, that same rookie coach went 0-22 on the PP in the playoffs and all coaches came back. This team is performing as it should….

I think also worth noting is Lou’s red right hand, which as we all know doesn’t fly in the day and age. The younger generation don’t wanna play for a guy with rules for days.

I’m still not understanding the firing of a future HOF coach, whereby this mediocre roster made the ECF twice, and replaced him with a rookie coach. To add, that same rookie coach went 0-22 on the PP in the playoffs and all coaches came back. This team is performing as it should….
- kindlyrick

Lou wants the old neutral zone trap days and those days are over. It’s about youth, speed, skill. It’s not about a bunch of vet 3rd and 4th line player. We need to forget the ECF. It was under very special circumstances and different talent.

Lou wants the old neutral zone trap days and those days are over. It’s about youth, speed, skill. It’s not about a bunch of vet 3rd and 4th line player. We need to forget the ECF. It was under very special circumstances and different talent.
- ses111

I don’t think you can chalk the 2 ECF as special circumstances and different talent. The isles roster has been without a bonafide first line for decades. But, with rookie coach after rookie coach the isles saw little to no success. Barry Trotz was the only real coach with experience and he took a VERY SIMILAR roster to a level of success that had not been seen under AHL coaches getting their start, and still don’t have under the latest rookie coach Lame Lambert.

I don’t think you can chalk the 2 ECF as special circumstances and different talent. The isles roster has been without a bonafide first line for decades. But, with rookie coach after rookie coach the isles saw little to no success. Barry Trotz was the only real coach with experience and he took a VERY SIMILAR roster to a level of success that had not been seen under AHL coaches getting their start, and still don’t have under the latest rookie coach Lame Lambert.
- kindlyrick

The Islanders probably do not make the playoffs if not for the play in and those teams struggled under Barry outside those two playoff runs. Players like Leddy and Toews skating the puck out of trouble was huge. Lee and Palms were also younger along with Bailey, Beau, Eberle. Al Arbour and Scotty Biwman together behind the bench could only do so much with this roster.