Laine a healthy scratch last night. Ha, it seems Torts can sure weed out the softies. Was listening to Ken Danyko (could be spelled wrong) on NHL Network last night and when they were done showing the highlights he had nothing but praise for Torts. He said he likes what he is doing with the young players. He said that he is teaching them how to be consistent at the NHL level and what it takes to compete every night at the highest level. Eh what? Personally, I think the disdain for Torts on here is overblown. While he is far from perfect I think he has this team humming along right now and I have no problem with it with the exception of how he is dealing with Frost.
- Phillywhiteout

I watched Danyko also and he did send nothing but praise to Torts and he said something else that I thought was insightful, "You don't play for Torts if you do not come ready to play hard every shift of every game". What could better for a young, developing player?

Sure, as Columbus matches the Flyers in 5 on 5 play, shot generation and chance generation yet can't finish. The coach sits the best goal scorer on the team while the Flyers win the game because they finished.

Danyko is a dinosaur. Let me know when he coaches or GM's a team to contention.
- MJL

How about the 17 other games the flyers played?

I'm not against sitting Deslauriers and seeing what happens. But your entire argument is Torts is putting winning ahead of everything else because Frost is sitting, and I just don't believe that is true. I also believe that you have to balance winning with development, otherwise you end up the Buffalo Sabres with talent up and down the lineup playing in front an empty building because they don't know how to win a game.
- jd250

Another player on the team went from the defacto number 1 center last year to a 4th line center this year. But somehow he never sat a game making the "balance" argument lose all merit.

He does not like Frost. Cates has been invisible for a good stretch now. Why not sit him? We all know why. He visually tries hard and blocks shots. Every team needs 10 of those guys.

Sure, as Columbus matches the Flyers in 5 on 5 play, shot generation and chance generation yet can't finish. The coach sits the best goal scorer on the team while the Flyers win the game because they finished.

Danyko is a dinosaur. Let me know when he coaches or GM's a team to contention.
- MJL

Of course he is, because he disagrees with you.

Sure, as Columbus matches the Flyers in 5 on 5 play, shot generation and chance generation yet can't finish. The coach sits the best goal scorer on the team while the Flyers win the game because they finished.

Danyko is a dinosaur. Let me know when he coaches or GM's a team to contention.
- MJL

Did you happen to see the interview with Bobby Brink after the game last night? He seemed to have no problem with being scratched for 3 games and he played pretty well last night when getting back into the lineup. He basically reiterated what Danyko said. Brink said that he needs to learn how to be more consistent with his effort.

I watched Danyko also and he did send nothing but praise to Torts and he said something else that I thought was insightful, "You don't play for Torts if you do not come ready to play hard every shift of every game". What could better for a young, developing player?
- jd250

Tortorella is often biased and simply wrong in singling out who is playing hard and who isn't. He favors certain type of players and veterans. It is not conducive to team development. It is detrimental.

Another player on the team went from the defacto number 1 center last year to a 4th line center this year. But somehow he never sat a game making the "balance" argument lose all merit.

He does not like Frost. Cates has been invisible for a good stretch now. Why not sit him? We all know why. He visually tries hard and blocks shots. Every team needs 10 of those guys.
- mickel25

Honestly, I think it's because Torts loves Cates's game, and does not like Frost's game. I mean we can go back and forth to the cows come home, but in the end I think we can all agree that the best thing for Frost is to be traded. If I were Briere, I would just tell Torts to play Frost no matter what happens so he can build up his trade value and get something decent back. The Flyers have invested years of development in Frost and Frost does have decent skill. Let him play, get some points and then trade him to a team looking for middle six offense.

Tortorella is often biased and simply wrong in singling out who is playing hard and who isn't. He favors certain type of players and veterans. It is not conducive to team development. It is detrimental.
- MJL

I have a serious question for you. If Torts did not take Frost out of the lineup this season and the Flyers were still 10-7-1, or even better, would you be this critical of Torts, or would you admit to everyone here that Torts has won you over?

How about the 17 other games the flyers played?
- ClaudeFather

What does the other Flyers 17 games have to do with Columbus scratching Laine? The point is that Columbus could've used a finisher in the lineup. Especially on the PP

Did you happen to see the interview with Bobby Brink after the game last night? He seemed to have no problem with being scratched for 3 games and he played pretty well last night when getting back into the lineup. He basically reiterated what Danyko said. Brink that he needs to learn how to be more consistent with his effort.
- Phillywhiteout

I am not arguing that effort should not be an every shift thing. I just think some players get more leeway because it is perceived that they are trying just because they do certain things that are more visual. Blocking shots, body checks, etc.

Guys like Brink and Frost might look less engaged at times because they are more finesse players. A bad turnover or bad penalty should not get you benched. For Frost it 100% does. Shouldn't the player be allowed to learn from the error?

I watched Danyko also and he did send nothing but praise to Torts and he said something else that I thought was insightful, "You don't play for Torts if you do not come ready to play hard every shift of every game". What could better for a young, developing player?
- jd250

Yep, I see nothing wrong with it!

Of course he is, because he disagrees with you.
- jd250

It's because he is wrong. Not because I disagree with him. This will all play out just like all of our other debates. The Flyers chances of building a legit contending team is being set back years.

I'm not against sitting Deslauriers and seeing what happens. But your entire argument is Torts is putting winning ahead of everything else because Frost is sitting, and I just don't believe that is true. I also believe that you have to balance winning with development, otherwise you end up the Buffalo Sabres with talent up and down the lineup playing in front an empty building because they don't know how to win a game.
- jd250

How is Frost costing wins? They were on a 4 game winning streak with him playing and he had 4 points in 4 games..."being an offensive player he needs to score to stay in the lineup" was what you were spewing, and he did that and still got sat. There is no excuse for sitting Frost again...none.
My entire argument is not just about Frost. Torts has different "standards" for different players. Frost has outplayed a number of Flyers...I'd say over 2 thirds of them and was still sat. He also sat Brink for 3 games, Phoeling for a couple...all young guys, but ND keeps getting his 10 minutes a night.
He is over using Coots. The man missed almost 2 years, and is thrown back in at over 20 minute s a night. A good coach would break him in slowly, limit his ice time and not risk reinjury...oh wait....Coots should have only been playing 15 minutes a night coming back to see how his back does, instead he is overplayed so we can try a win. I have nothing against winning, but this team if they made the playoffs would be one and done, and we have been there for too many times when we do make the playoffs. If Torts used time management properly, he could easily have 15 minutes a night for Frost instead of ND. The lineup would be stronger, more talented, and have better balance over the lineup.
It's not just Frost, it is his total player usage for the sake of winning...which we would do more of with the talented players playing, and the goons watching and playing once every 5-6 games. Ancient coaching philosophy, and trying to twist words to make his grudges seem like he is doing it for the benefit of the team and player.

It's because he is wrong. Not because I disagree with him. This will all play out just like all of our other debates. The Flyers chances of building a legit contending team is being set back years.
- MJL

It's weird to me that hockey fans can't actually see the nonsensical grift that Torts provides.

Honestly, I think it's because Torts loves Cates's game, and does not like Frost's game. I mean we can go back and forth to the cows come home, but in the end I think we can all agree that the best thing for Frost is to be traded. If I were Briere, I would just tell Torts to play Frost no matter what happens so he can build up his trade value and get something decent back. The Flyers have invested years of development in Frost and Frost does have decent skill. Let him play, get some points and then trade him to a team looking for middle six offense.
- jd250

This post sums up the last ten years of the Flyers to a tee. Get rid of the guy with some talent and keep the guy who looks like he is trying hard.

Talent? We don't need no stinkin talent!

I have a serious question for you. If Torts did not take Frost out of the lineup this season and the Flyers were still 10-7-1, or even better, would you be this critical of Torts, or would you admit to everyone here that Torts has won you over?
- jd250

Yes, because he's still going to scratch other players such as Brink. Still going to favor other players even when they're playing worse than the players he is scratching. Still keeping Deslauriers in the lineup while scratching young players. Will still keep overplaying players like Poehling. Just like he did last year with McEwen, etc.

What does the other Flyers 17 games have to do with Columbus scratching Laine? The point is that Columbus could've used a finisher in the lineup. Especially on the PP
- MJL

It points to you trying to nitpick one game on shot/chance generation. And Laine has been horrible this year.

I am not arguing that effort should not be an every shift thing. I just think some players get more leeway because it is perceived that they are trying just because they do certain things that are more visual. Blocking shots, body checks, etc.

Guys like Brink and Frost might look less engaged at times because they are more finesse players. A bad turnover or bad penalty should not get you benched. For Frost it 100% does. Shouldn't the player be allowed to learn from the error?
- mickel25

Yes, and that is my problem with Torts. I didn't see the game Saturday, but apparently Frost took a bad penalty and then was removed from the lineup again. A player shouldn't have to play every game under the pressure of knowing that if he makes one mistake they will be benched again. That isn't a good thing IMO.

Did you happen to see the interview with Bobby Brink after the game last night? He seemed to have no problem with being scratched for 3 games and he played pretty well last night when getting back into the lineup. He basically reiterated what Danyko said. Brink said that he needs to learn how to be more consistent with his effort.
- Phillywhiteout

What do you expect him to say? Torts is an ass for sitting me?

What do you expect him to say? Torts is an ass for sitting me?
- TheFreak

YES!! Torts like confrontation!

Did you happen to see the interview with Bobby Brink after the game last night? He seemed to have no problem with being scratched for 3 games and he played pretty well last night when getting back into the lineup. He basically reiterated what Danyko said. Brink said that he needs to learn how to be more consistent with his effort.
- Phillywhiteout

What do you expect a young player to say? A player doesn't have to be scratched to improve and work through development issues. Ups and down should be expected with young players. Random scratching is bad coaching.

Did you happen to see the interview with Bobby Brink after the game last night? He seemed to have no problem with being scratched for 3 games and he played pretty well last night when getting back into the lineup. He basically reiterated what Danyko said. Brink said that he needs to learn how to be more consistent with his effort.
- Phillywhiteout

What do you expect a young player to say? A player doesn't have to be scratched to improve and work through development issues. Ups and down should be expected with young players. Random scratching is bad coaching.

I am not arguing that effort should not be an every shift thing. I just think some players get more leeway because it is perceived that they are trying just because they do certain things that are more visual. Blocking shots, body checks, etc.

Guys like Brink and Frost might look less engaged at times because they are more finesse players. A bad turnover or bad penalty should not get you benched. For Frost it 100% does. Shouldn't the player be allowed to learn from the error?
- mickel25

Look up Frost's hit and shot block stats. Frost is 5th on the team in hits/60

Yes, and that is my problem with Torts. I didn't see the game Saturday, but apparently Frost took a bad penalty and then was removed from the lineup again. A player shouldn't have to play every game under the pressure of knowing that if that make one mistake they will be benched again. That isn't a good thing IMO.
- Phillywhiteout

What makes it particularly strange is that Frost has the second best ES GF% on the team. So it's not like he's made a bunch of mistakes that ended up with the Flyers conceding goals. If he had, then I could see a coach like Torts getting frustrated with him.

The forwards who are conceding the most goals against per minute so far are Atkinson, Couturier, Tippett and Cates. The forwards with the worst ES GF% are Deslauriers, Hathaway, Cates and Atkinson - who are all immune from a benching.

https://www.naturalstattr...ines=single&draftteam=ALL

It points to you trying to nitpick one game on shot/chance generation. And Laine has been horrible this year.
- ClaudeFather

Yea, you badly missed the point. Which was that Columbus had chances and couldn't finish and that the coach is stupid for scratching Laine.