Yeah 0-5 on the PP in a 1-0 game vs the 1st place team in the league....that f'n PP, man hahaha. If they could get to at least 20% efficiency we'd really be rocking.
- MattStrat

Carolina and NJ are going to require a totally different mindset. Can't seem to beat them with our old brand of hockey. Pens try to skate with them and can't. Like Marshall mentioned, the 1-2-2 was really effective on the western trip. Seemed like they completely abandoned it against those two teams. These players are always going to drift into the style they want to play and it's Sully's job to correct it.

That's my gripe with Sully. I thought those two games spoiled their success on the western swing. Come back east against two division rivals and got smoked. Jersey was missing their two best players. It wasn't a fluky loss either like the Rags. They beat the Pens to every puck.

I still see enough good. Like you say, fixing the PP will go a long way.

Rust full contact and worked the top PP. Good sign he's back.

Harkins and Nylander rotating so one of them comes out. Neither has done much, so it's whatever or whoever you believe in more.

Rust full contact and worked the top PP. Good sign he's back.

Harkins and Nylander rotating so one of them comes out. Neither has done much, so it's whatever or whoever you believe in more.
- Tojo.

Just sign Phil to league minimum and let him run the PP like the good ole' days.

Just sign Phil to league minimum and let him run the PP like the good ole' days.
- j.boyd919

Couldn't they just use EK in Phil's old spot? Similar enough skill sets. They'd still be missing a proper net-front guy but they just don't have one so they're going to have to find a way to make it work with Jake there.

Couldn't they just use EK in Phil's old spot? Similar enough skill sets. They'd still be missing a proper net-front guy but they just don't have one so they're going to have to find a way to make it work with Jake there.
- MickV

They've been trying to make it work with Jake about as long as it's underachieved. Boyd mentioned Phil, but Hornqvist also stopped getting used about the same time and I don't think that's a coincidence.

No one has a “spot” on the pp. Guentzel will suppose to be in front but will float up high for the most unnecessary cycle ever, then Malkin moves off his one timer and EK ends up behind the net. There’s no setup plays, no anticipation because no one knows who will be where. It’s a bunch of bullpoop.

They've been trying to make it work with Jake about as long as it's underachieved. Boyd mentioned Phil, but Hornqvist also stopped getting used about the same time and I don't think that's a coincidence.
- Tojo.

Yeah, I agree, but realistically, I don't see them taking Jake off the top PP ... and they don't seem to have any great options for net-front anyway.

Looks like Kane is going with the Wings...

Carolina and NJ are going to require a totally different mindset. Can't seem to beat them with our old brand of hockey. Pens try to skate with them and can't. Like Marshall mentioned, the 1-2-2 was really effective on the western trip. Seemed like they completely abandoned it against those two teams. These players are always going to drift into the style they want to play and it's Sully's job to correct it.

That's my gripe with Sully. I thought those two games spoiled their success on the western swing. Come back east against two division rivals and got smoked. Jersey was missing their two best players. It wasn't a fluky loss either like the Rags. They beat the Pens to every puck.

I still see enough good. Like you say, fixing the PP will go a long way.
- madmike71

Yeah they just didnt stick to the game plan in those two games. They decided to try a track meet. They're too old for that sh!t hahaha

We talk about these net front guys and getting one quite often around here. But I think true net front guys are a bit rare, like Hornqvist/Holmstrom type guys.

Pretending the Pens could get anyone in the league for this via trade who would you get?

Why not Sid? We know that Sid down low has always been good...which we're not seeing much of this season. Why not put him right on the doorstep? Do we not want clappers from the points headed at him?

I think Carter should be tried at least once. He's a very big strong body whos scored a F ton of goals in this league. Like why not try it?

As much as this net front might be an issues (not every team has a true net front guy) I think their zone entries, or attempts of such, might be a bigger issue.

The biggest issue of all though, in my opinion, is their brains. They have no confidence with the man advantage at all. During the Canadian broadcast of the Leafs game Simpson (color commenter) during the play on the ice and Hrudey and Bieska in the intermission were talking about how defeated the Pens players look on the PP. Its true, they really do. The need to grab their f'n nutsacks and battle through this, stop overthinking sh!t.

We talk about these net front guys and getting one quite often around here. But I think true net front guys are a bit rare, like Hornqvist/Holmstrom type guys.

Pretending the Pens could get anyone in the league for this via trade who would you get?

Why not Sid? We know that Sid down low has always been good...which we're not seeing much of this season. Why not put him right on the doorstep? Do we not want clappers from the points headed at him?

I think Carter should be tried at least once. He's a very big strong body whos scored a F ton of goals in this league. Like why not try it?

As much as this net front might be an issues (not every team has a true net front guy) I think their zone entries, or attempts of such, might be a bigger issue.

The biggest issue of all though, in my opinion, is their brains. They have no confidence with the man advantage at all. During the Canadian broadcast of the Leafs game Simpson (color commenter) during the play on the ice and Hrudey and Bieska in the intermission were talking about how defeated the Pens players look on the PP. Its true, they really do. The need to grab their f'n nutsacks and battle through this, stop overthinking sh!t.
- MattStrat

I mean there are players who fit the bill in trade rumors. I look to Montreal and maybe take a shot at Anderson or Monahan both can and do well at net front. Gallagher if they retained salary. Evander Kane was in trade rumors from Edmonton a few weeks back, so I would add him in there. Elias Lindholm who has played center and Right wing. I think Lindholm, Kane and Monahan would be tougher to get, but have been in trade rumors as potentially available.

Our current options the whole 4th line lol

We talk about these net front guys and getting one quite often around here. But I think true net front guys are a bit rare, like Hornqvist/Holmstrom type guys.

Pretending the Pens could get anyone in the league for this via trade who would you get?

Why not Sid? We know that Sid down low has always been good...which we're not seeing much of this season. Why not put him right on the doorstep? Do we not want clappers from the points headed at him?

I think Carter should be tried at least once. He's a very big strong body whos scored a F ton of goals in this league. Like why not try it?

As much as this net front might be an issues (not every team has a true net front guy) I think their zone entries, or attempts of such, might be a bigger issue.

The biggest issue of all though, in my opinion, is their brains. They have no confidence with the man advantage at all. During the Canadian broadcast of the Leafs game Simpson (color commenter) during the play on the ice and Hrudey and Bieska in the intermission were talking about how defeated the Pens players look on the PP. Its true, they really do. The need to grab their f'n nutsacks and battle through this, stop overthinking sh!t.
- MattStrat

It's a special breed who's willing to stand in front of the net and take that beating and get blasted by pucks. The Pens only have one guy that even comes close and that's Acciari. Possibly Z, but I'm not sure he's that kind of player.

Carter isn't the guy. He's so easily knocked off the puck. There's no battle left in his game at all. Jake is harder on pucks then him.

They've been trying to make it work with Jake about as long as it's underachieved. Boyd mentioned Phil, but Hornqvist also stopped getting used about the same time and I don't think that's a coincidence.
- Tojo.

Prior to this year, Jake has 63 points on 740 minutes of PP time (5.11 p/60)
From 2016-2017, Horny had 51 in 640 minutes of PP time (4.74 p/60)

While I will agree that there were things that don't get notched on the stat sheet from Hornqvist on the PP, I don't think Jake is the problem. They do not have a left half wall threat at all, all of their RH shots over there aren't great passers, and the only "sniper" of the group has scored since forever (Rakell).

There's no threat of coming off the wall with a shot so the guys just fill the lanes and force it back up top. There's no threat of a seam pass because there's no threat of a shot. The PPs that have success in the league have threats on both walls OR they have designated "plays" to open space for their triggermen whether it's a one timer or a bumper option. The Pens don't do any of that, they almost never use the one timer option, and the guy who should be the bumper option is either standing in front of the goalie (Jake) or behind/beside the net (Sid).

We talk about these net front guys and getting one quite often around here. But I think true net front guys are a bit rare, like Hornqvist/Holmstrom type guys.

Pretending the Pens could get anyone in the league for this via trade who would you get?

Why not Sid? We know that Sid down low has always been good...which we're not seeing much of this season. Why not put him right on the doorstep? Do we not want clappers from the points headed at him?

I think Carter should be tried at least once. He's a very big strong body whos scored a F ton of goals in this league. Like why not try it?

As much as this net front might be an issues (not every team has a true net front guy) I think their zone entries, or attempts of such, might be a bigger issue.

The biggest issue of all though, in my opinion, is their brains. They have no confidence with the man advantage at all. During the Canadian broadcast of the Leafs game Simpson (color commenter) during the play on the ice and Hrudey and Bieska in the intermission were talking about how defeated the Pens players look on the PP. Its true, they really do. The need to grab their f'n nutsacks and battle through this, stop overthinking sh!t.
- MattStrat

Their best zone entries are when EK carries the mail and drops it to Geno, but Sid is flanking Geno parallel up the ice that way if they try to collapse on Geno at the blue line, he can dump it off to Sid with the same head of steam. They were doing that entry pretty well for a few weeks then it just disappeared.

Prior to this year, Jake has 63 points on 740 minutes of PP time (5.11 p/60)
From 2016-2017, Horny had 51 in 640 minutes of PP time (4.74 p/60)

While I will agree that there were things that don't get notched on the stat sheet from Hornqvist on the PP, I don't think Jake is the problem. They do not have a left half wall threat at all, all of their RH shots over there aren't great passers, and the only "sniper" of the group has scored since forever (Rakell).

There's no threat of coming off the wall with a shot so the guys just fill the lanes and force it back up top. There's no threat of a seam pass because there's no threat of a shot. The PPs that have success in the league have threats on both walls OR they have designated "plays" to open space for their triggermen whether it's a one timer or a bumper option. The Pens don't do any of that, they almost never use the one timer option, and the guy who should be the bumper option is either standing in front of the goalie (Jake) or behind/beside the net (Sid).
- j.boyd919

This is why I was asking above, why not try EK on the left half-wall? He has a great shot, great passer, etc. You have Geno at the right point looking for the one timer, EK on the left. If they try and defend both of those tight, then the middle is open.

Just to get going you can easily tell EK and Geno if the lane is open they have to shoot. Then Jake and Sid know it's coming and can crash down looking for garbage. Opposing PKs should then quickly realize they need to defend those shots and then the middle opens up and now you have a lot of options.

For some reason it seems like they don't want to have 2 or 3 fixed options they're trying to set up. Idk.

This is why I was asking above, why not try EK on the left half-wall? He has a great shot, great passer, etc. You have Geno at the right point looking for the one timer, EK on the left. If they try and defend both of those tight, then the middle is open.

Just to get going you can easily tell EK and Geno if the lane is open they have to shoot. Then Jake and Sid know it's coming and can crash down looking for garbage. Opposing PKs should then quickly realize they need to defend those shots and then the middle opens up and now you have a lot of options.

For some reason it seems like they don't want to have 2 or 3 fixed options they're trying to set up. Idk.
- MickV

Personally I think it should have been Letang on the left half wall, with EK up top. Letang has a good one timer and can make decent passes. Letang always had problems putting the puck on a tee for Geno, whereas I think if they really want to use Geno has a one timer threat, EK is the better passer.

I'd literally make Letang watch take on Kessel and how he operated the half wall and ask him to replicate that.

Personally I think it should have been Letang on the left half wall, with EK up top. Letang has a good one timer and can make decent passes. Letang always had problems putting the puck on a tee for Geno, whereas I think if they really want to use Geno has a one timer threat, EK is the better passer.

I'd literally make Letang watch take on Kessel and how he operated the half wall and ask him to replicate that.
- j.boyd919

Letang just never wants to shoot. If I were defending us with him there, I'd basically still shade towards Geno and dare him to actually use a one timer.

Yeah, I agree, but realistically, I don't see them taking Jake off the top PP ... and they don't seem to have any great options for net-front anyway.
- MickV

Yeah I agree, they won't. A true net front and a righty would make more sense, but they aren't going to change it.

Letang just never wants to shoot. If I were defending us with him there, I'd basically still shade towards Geno and dare him to actually use a one timer.
- Tojo.

That's where Reirdon needs to (frank)ing coach lol

Prior to this year, Jake has 63 points on 740 minutes of PP time (5.11 p/60)
From 2016-2017, Horny had 51 in 640 minutes of PP time (4.74 p/60)

While I will agree that there were things that don't get notched on the stat sheet from Hornqvist on the PP, I don't think Jake is the problem. They do not have a left half wall threat at all, all of their RH shots over there aren't great passers, and the only "sniper" of the group has scored since forever (Rakell).

There's no threat of coming off the wall with a shot so the guys just fill the lanes and force it back up top. There's no threat of a seam pass because there's no threat of a shot. The PPs that have success in the league have threats on both walls OR they have designated "plays" to open space for their triggermen whether it's a one timer or a bumper option. The Pens don't do any of that, they almost never use the one timer option, and the guy who should be the bumper option is either standing in front of the goalie (Jake) or behind/beside the net (Sid).
- j.boyd919

As you kind of noted, a lot of Hornqvist's impact came without him getting points by fighting to take away the goalie's sight. I'm actually surprised he's that close. But as others are saying, a guy like him isn't available. But I do think they could improve, but likely don't take Jake out anyway, so it's kind of a moot point.

I don't disagree they could get more from a righty. Rackell or Rust should be capable of being that threat and have each had a good run the past couple years. Kind of crazy they've combined for 1 PP assist.

As far as tactical stuff like using a bumper more. IDK if it's the coach or they like to free lance too much.

As you kind of noted, a lot of Hornqvist's impact came without him getting points by fighting to take away the goalie's sight. I'm actually surprised he's that close. But as others are saying, a guy like him isn't available. But I do think they could improve, but likely don't take Jake out anyway, so it's kind of a moot point.

I don't disagree they could get more from a righty. Rackell or Rust should be capable of being that threat and have each had a good run the past couple years. Kind of crazy they've combined for 1 PP assist.

As far as tactical stuff like using a bumper more. IDK if it's the coach or they like to free lance too much.
- Tojo.

I think they like to freelance too much, and Reirdon is failing at coaching them to stop. There are just no set options in the PP and I honestly don't see a lot of successful PPs run like that.

I mean there are players who fit the bill in trade rumors. I look to Montreal and maybe take a shot at Anderson or Monahan both can and do well at net front. Gallagher if they retained salary. Evander Kane was in trade rumors from Edmonton a few weeks back, so I would add him in there. Elias Lindholm who has played center and Right wing. I think Lindholm, Kane and Monahan would be tougher to get, but have been in trade rumors as potentially available.

Our current options the whole 4th line lol
- 123Kid

Lindholm is not obtainable. Monahan is glass, and idk about Kane. And I wouldn’t want Sid taking a beating in front of the net. He’s the aneak in front behind and gtfo type. I would be trying Doc or Harkins, if playing.

Also Letang isn’t a shooter. Ek to Phil’s spot might be good. Letang up top can dish left or right, but that might be too many minutes for tanger since he is a pk mainstay.

We talk about these net front guys and getting one quite often around here. But I think true net front guys are a bit rare, like Hornqvist/Holmstrom type guys.

Pretending the Pens could get anyone in the league for this via trade who would you get?

Why not Sid? We know that Sid down low has always been good...which we're not seeing much of this season. Why not put him right on the doorstep? Do we not want clappers from the points headed at him?

I think Carter should be tried at least once. He's a very big strong body whos scored a F ton of goals in this league. Like why not try it?

As much as this net front might be an issues (not every team has a true net front guy) I think their zone entries, or attempts of such, might be a bigger issue.

The biggest issue of all though, in my opinion, is their brains. They have no confidence with the man advantage at all. During the Canadian broadcast of the Leafs game Simpson (color commenter) during the play on the ice and Hrudey and Bieska in the intermission were talking about how defeated the Pens players look on the PP. Its true, they really do. The need to grab their f'n nutsacks and battle through this, stop overthinking sh!t.
- MattStrat

Boone Jenner realistic option.

There's no threat of coming off the wall with a shot so the guys just fill the lanes and force it back up top. There's no threat of a seam pass because there's no threat of a shot. The PPs that have success in the league have threats on both walls OR they have designated "plays" to open space for their triggermen whether it's a one timer or a bumper option. The Pens don't do any of that, they almost never use the one timer option, and the guy who should be the bumper option is either standing in front of the goalie (Jake) or behind/beside the net (Sid).
- j.boyd919

Good observational write-up! The filled lanes by PK’ers then start the endless passing between EK-Malkin & who ever is slotted in on left half wall. Some pressure or forced passes through lanes that arent there create TO’s. Pens dont play the 1-3-1 to exploit 2-1 situations for shots from the bumper or either half wall player. The lack of shot threat from either side player does nothing to get PK’ers to over commit & out of position. Seam passes that would create lateral goalie movement & change in shot angle are non-existent. The result in which you described is a situation where PK’ers dont need to have their heads on a swivel. Puck flow is managed outwards through the umbrella setup; -60ft away from net on EK’s stick (low probability of PPG). Malkin one-timer from right umbrella set-up cannot continue to be the only shot threat. If so, the Pens own PP will be the most effective penalty kill.

Good observational write-up! The filled lanes by PK’ers then start the endless passing between EK-Malkin & who ever is slotted in on left half wall. Some pressure or forced passes through lanes that arent there create TO’s. Pens dont play the 1-3-1 to exploit 2-1 situations for shots from the bumper or either half wall player. The lack of shot threat from either side player does nothing to get PK’ers to over commit & out of position. Seam passes that would create lateral goalie movement & change in shot angle are non-existent. The result in which you described is a situation where PK’ers dont need to have their heads on a swivel. Puck flow is managed outwards through the umbrella setup; -60ft away from net on EK’s stick (low probability of PPG). Malkin one-timer from right umbrella set-up cannot continue to be the only shot threat. If so, the Pens own PP will be the most effective penalty kill.
- out_of_market

Yep, if they are going to play catch between Geno and EK, Jake needs to float to the high slot, and Sid needs to go backdoor by the net. Then EK can move the puck to the left half wall (ideally Rust or Rakell), as the puck moves over there, Sid backs off below the goal line and Jake floats lower in the slot. Rust to Sid to Jake in the bumper spot or if the net front D follows Sid, Rust can go directly to Jake in the bumper or if he goes to Sid down low, Sid can go back to Rust before going to the bumper.

The Caps used to do this with Oshie/Backstrom all the time back, and Tampa does it with Kucherov/Point. If they would work that, it would eventually open up the one timer for Geno.

Those are 2-3 "options" that are just never exercised with continuity.