How do good teams develop young talent and ice the most competitive lineup at the same time? Would Zamula be in the lineup for Colorado or Vegas? If Boston had to choose between Staal and Zamula who would they be playing?
- Dkos

Well, the difference between the Flyers and those teams is the Flyers said publicly they were rebuilding and both of those teams have won each of the past two Stanley cups. They have the luxury of sacrificing development for winning.

I think Vegas dealt a lot of their futures for guys like Eichel and Stone, but when it comes to cup contenders, it certainly helps having a few guys on ELCs to keep them under the cap while being developed in more suitable situations. Kind of how the Avs handled Newhook. I also think Cassidy and Bednar are better coaches than Torts. Bednar basically developed with that Avalanche core.

If Staal had interest from the Bruins I'm sure he would've signed there. He's at the stage in his career where he is cup chasing. He came to the organization that offered him the most playing time in order to showcase him to be traded to a contender at the deadline. And no, I don't think Zamula could crack a top team's lineup. But he definitely should crack the Flyers and should be playing over Staal.

Accountability, culture and standard are all BS buzzwords and smoke and mirrors. That's not what wins in the NHL. Talent, skill and speed with strong coaching behind it, is what wins. The used care salesman speeches have hoodwinked so many. That's what the used car salesman, Tortorella is selling. He has nothing else.
Also not sure why some think you can't try to win with young players in the lineup. As if you play the young players, you're giving up on the ice.
This is not your son's travel league. This is the NHL.
- MJL

so you do not need to be held accountable? Or do not need to have a culture?

It takes more than just talent to win Cliff.

Obviously Zamula is not NHL ready and instead of letting him get crushed every game and letting him lose confidence they will play him in situations where he can exceed.

Brink is almost NHL ready but just quite have the stamina needed, so he will sit once in awhile.

It's like you are upset that they team dares to win. They should immediately stop trying to win and play rookies.

Am I happy that they are winning, hell yeah. Do i know that the winning comes at a cost of a better draft pick, yes. But I finally can watch my Flyers and enjoy the games
- WhiskeyMan

he is ready though he will make mistakes. You live with them, not a hard concept to understand.

Actually I'm not a coach at all. Neither are you. That's the first thing you have wrong. However I know more about NHL hockey then you do obviously. An NHL coach does not have to balance contract commitments. Nor does he have to play a washed up vet long past his prime. Do you recall Tortorella's statement before the season, that Staal is not going to play every game? How do you find out if a player can handle the pressure or develop the ability to handle the pressure? Not by not playing. Did you ever hear Michael Jordan's comment on how many game winning shots he missed? Brady and Purdy were there because they could play! Simple as that. How did they find that out? What you don't realize is that just like you claim that coaching is not cut and dry. Neither is scouting and talent evaluations. Top players slip through the cracks and are poorly scouted. Players who aren't drafted turn out to be stars.
Some have been brainwashed by talk of accountability, culture and standard. All nonsense that the Flyers have been perpetually selling. Which is why they're still going nowhere in the big picture. They're buzzwords that symbolize Tortorella's limits as a coach.
- MJL

kid gloves are off

he is ready though he will make mistakes. You live with them, not a hard concept to understand.
- hello it's me 2050

I swear half these people don’t watch the games

Wow, this Corey Perry stuff is going off the rails. They are saying moms were involved......

Yikes
- MBFlyerfan

Isnt cp old enough to be Bedard's dad?

I'm saying that they thought they were a contender and put player development behind winning. Which is why a talented player like Tippett was not a regular in the lineup. I'd be perfectly okay with that approach if the Flyers were a legit contending team and were scratching young players in favor of winning. Obviously, they're not.
- MJL

he wasnt a regular because he didn't do much to become a regular.

I swear half these people don’t watch the games
- ClaudeFather

nope

How many days will the same conversations take place.

How long until frost is scratched for 7 d? Just have the feeling it’s coming.

Anyone reliable? Feel like that started as a joke and has gained steam
- ClaudeFather

I think it was Dave Pagnota yesterday who reported that the Blackhawks have stated the rumors of Perry boinking Conner’s mom are FALSE.

Bill, your thoughts on Torts coming out and saying he has no interest in developing a player if it will affect a win or loss?
- ClaudeFather

What an asinine thing to say.
What an asinine way to coach THIS team.

Perhaps a good coach wouldn’t sacrifice a W/L record for a rookie for a team like LV, Colorado or any other team with LEGITIMATE playoff and Cup aspirations, but for a team where the collective ruling committee has declared is in a rebuild (supposedly to develop a contender for years to come) it’s asinine.

Keep it up Flyers. You’re on a path back to having more Rangers fans in the stands than Flyers fans again. As a fan, I’ve had enough of shelling out money and time for an organization that has no long term vision and deceives the fans with platitudes about “rebuilding” and “it’s gonna take time” and “we need elite talent”. The Flyers have been everywhere from mediocre to insignificant for the last 13 years. A once proud and respected franchise mired in nothing more than the same ol same ol. Never good enough to be a contender, never smart enough to learn that playoff bubble teams are not going to fill the stands. Maddening. Just maddening.

Isnt cp old enough to be Bedard's dad?
- corduroy

Maybe he is.

Isnt cp old enough to be Bedard's dad?
- corduroy

some peeps father kids at age 15...

Zamula is not NHL ready? Based on what? Are you kidding me? Brink does not have a stamina issue.

You have the situation completely wrong. I want them to try and win with the young players who are part of the future. Not put the future aside to try and win when they have no realistic chance of actually winning. I want the team to do what it takes to win. In order to do that, they have to acquire and develop better players.

You may be satisfied with a near .500 team and some meaningless regular season wins that won't amount to anything and enjoying the games. That's not enough for me.
- MJL

From what I have seen and IMO, Zamula is as good as Belpido, their numbers are very similar.

I am not satisfied with a.500 club. , i have been seeing that pretty much since they traded Richards and Carter away.

But I have seen the past 2 drafts and seen the flyers draft some real good players. There is a new GM who has done nothing to make me feel like he does not know what he is doing.

Is Zamula part of the future, is Frost part of the future. I don't know, I am not in the conference room with DB and Jones.


They see Cutter as a center, will they need Frost?
They drafted a few really good D last draft. Wil they need Zamula?

Why is Brink a healthy scratch lately, just to get Frost into games? Brink had missed a lot of hockey last season and only played a college hockey schedule. IMO he is still catching up in stamina of what is needed in the NHL.

Didn't know you could predict the future and see where the Flyers will be in the standings at the end of the season.

Actually I'm not a coach at all. Neither are you. That's the first thing you have wrong. However I know more about NHL hockey then you do obviously. An NHL coach does not have to balance contract commitments. Nor does he have to play a washed up vet long past his prime. Do you recall Tortorella's statement before the season, that Staal is not going to play every game? How do you find out if a player can handle the pressure or develop the ability to handle the pressure? Not by not playing. Did you ever hear Michael Jordan's comment on how many game winning shots he missed? Brady and Purdy were there because they could play! Simple as that. How did they find that out? What you don't realize is that just like you claim that coaching is not cut and dry. Neither is scouting and talent evaluations. Top players slip through the cracks and are poorly scouted. Players who aren't drafted turn out to be stars.
Some have been brainwashed by talk of accountability, culture and standard. All nonsense that the Flyers have been perpetually selling. Which is why they're still going nowhere in the big picture. They're buzzwords that symbolize Tortorella's limits as a coach.
- MJL

LOL

What an asinine thing to say.
What an asinine way to coach THIS team.

Perhaps a good coach wouldn’t sacrifice a W/L record for a rookie for a team like LV, Colorado or any other team with LEGITIMATE playoff and Cup aspirations, but for a team where the collective ruling committee has declared is in a rebuild (supposedly to develop a contender for years to come) it’s asinine.

Keep it up Flyers. You’re on a path back to having more Rangers fans in the stands than Flyers fans again. As a fan, I’ve had enough of shelling out money and time for an organization that has no long term vision and deceives the fans with platitudes about “rebuilding” and “it’s gonna take time” and “we need elite talent”. The Flyers have been everywhere from mediocre to insignificant for the last 13 years. A once proud and respected franchise mired in nothing more than the same ol same ol. Never good enough to be a contender, never smart enough to learn that playoff bubble teams are not going to fill the stands. Maddening. Just maddening.
- mikeyo27

Maddening is a great word for it. They’re acting like they are contenders 😂

From what I have seen and IMO, Zamula is as good as Belpido, their numbers are very similar.

I am not satisfied with a.500 club. , i have been seeing that pretty much since they traded Richards and Carter away.

But I have seen the past 2 drafts and seen the flyers draft some real good players. There is a new GM who has done nothing to make me feel like he does not know what he is doing.

Is Zamula part of the future, is Frost part of the future. I don't know, I am not in the conference room with DB and Jones.


They see Cutter as a center, will they need Frost?
They drafted a few really good D last draft. Wil they need Zamula?

Why is Brink a healthy scratch lately, just to get Frost into games? Brink had missed a lot of hockey last season and only played a college hockey schedule. IMO he is still catching up in stamina of what is needed in the NHL.

Didn't know you could predict the future and see where the Flyers will be in the standings at the end of the season.
- WhiskeyMan

How does the GM not know what he’s going? I think DB has been pretty savvy so far. Trade deadline will tell us a lot more but he’s been fine. Sanheim mandate he got a mulligan on.

so you do not need to be held accountable? Or do not need to have a culture?

It takes more than just talent to win Cliff.
- hello it's me 2050

IMO, the flyers locker room and culture needed to be fixed before anything else. Getting Hayes away from Farabee sure looks like it helped. Joel was rumoured to be pretty PO that they let hayes go, but it was the right call. Id rather have a good locker room and culture before bringing in the younger guys we will soon be counting on. Some say culture is a myth.....i dont think it is

From what I have seen and IMO, Zamula is as good as Belpido, their numbers are very similar.

I am not satisfied with a.500 club. , i have been seeing that pretty much since they traded Richards and Carter away.

But I have seen the past 2 drafts and seen the flyers draft some real good players. There is a new GM who has done nothing to make me feel like he does not know what he is doing.

Is Zamula part of the future, is Frost part of the future. I don't know, I am not in the conference room with DB and Jones.


They see Cutter as a center, will they need Frost?
They drafted a few really good D last draft. Wil they need Zamula?

Why is Brink a healthy scratch lately, just to get Frost into games? Brink had missed a lot of hockey last season and only played a college hockey schedule. IMO he is still catching up in stamina of what is needed in the NHL.

Didn't know you could predict the future and see where the Flyers will be in the standings at the end of the season.
- WhiskeyMan

Some decent points and valid questions. However, how do the powers that be answer those questions if they don’t do everything in their power to attempt to develop these players? Z is a +10. He must be doing something NHL worthy as a rookie D to have that stat in 17 games. Bobby Brink has 10 points in 16 games as a rookie. Not shabby. But how do these guys project over an entire season? Can they maintain this? Will they fail? How will they overcome bad games? None of those good questions you posed seem to be answered by simply taking Torts asinine approach and simply choosing not to develop these players because he might miss the playoffs by 6 points as opposed to 16 points.
This is proof that there is either no rebuild or as Inigo Montoya would say to the triumvirate “you keep saying that word, we do not think it means what you think it means”.

IMO, the flyers locker room and culture needed to be fixed before anything else. Getting Hayes away from Farabee sure looks like it helped. Joel was rumoured to be pretty PO that they let hayes go, but it was the right call. Id rather have a good locker room and culture before bringing in the younger guys we will soon be counting on. Some say culture is a myth.....i dont think it is
- bradster

New micd up clip shows Farabee very vocal on the bench and talked Brink through a PP setup which they scored on

From what I have seen and IMO, Zamula is as good as Belpido, their numbers are very similar.

I am not satisfied with a.500 club. , i have been seeing that pretty much since they traded Richards and Carter away.

But I have seen the past 2 drafts and seen the flyers draft some real good players. There is a new GM who has done nothing to make me feel like he does not know what he is doing.

Is Zamula part of the future, is Frost part of the future. I don't know, I am not in the conference room with DB and Jones.


They see Cutter as a center, will they need Frost?
They drafted a few really good D last draft. Wil they need Zamula?

Why is Brink a healthy scratch lately, just to get Frost into games? Brink had missed a lot of hockey last season and only played a college hockey schedule. IMO he is still catching up in stamina of what is needed in the NHL.

Didn't know you could predict the future and see where the Flyers will be in the standings at the end of the season.
- WhiskeyMan

I love this. Selective posting on players. This player is not NHL ready. Then it's you're not in the conference room with DB and Jones to know if Frost and Zamula are part of the future. Why wouldn't they be? Is it due to the Flyers surplus of young NHL talent that they might not be? The good young defenseman they drafted are guaranteed to be good quality players and part of the future. So, they don't need Zamula? Flyers also have a surplus at center, so they don't need Frost?
From purely a common sense perspective, does someone need to be in the conference room with DB and Jones to answer those questions?

Brink has played 40 and 50 games in the last two previous seasons. Now after playing 16 games, he's exhausted and has a stamina issue? Hardly!

Is it a stretch to suggest that chances are, the Flyers aren't going to make the playoffs this year? Or do I have to be in the conference room to see that?

New micd up clip shows Farabee very vocal on the bench and talked Brink through a PP setup which they scored on
- ClaudeFather

And did you see them cheering on ND when he was in the fight.......great stuff there. Love ND or hate him. I think the players are showing they like him on the team, gave him player of the game also. Great for the locker room, which was needed for a while now.

First, I never said Torts was the "best player developing coach in the league", but he is very good at developing young players. Secondly, learning how to win and prioritizing winning is in itself developing players. Any coach that states there are things more important than winning are not worth their weight and are not good head coaches. Any player that puts his own needs ahead of the team winning is not a player you want on your team.

The interesting thing about the argument about putting Frost in the lineup is its less about his development, and more about the team winning games. People on this forum want Deslauriers gone and Frost in the lineup every night because they feel that is the best Flyers lineup and gives them the best chance to win games.
- jd250

You most certainly did make mention of the great job Torts is doing with Zamula, Brink and Forester (all the young are developing better than expected under Torts, or something to that manner)...it was disputed by MJL, but ok..
Frost doesn't need to learn how to win.....he doesn't cause losses, and the stats show he leads in most categories. He needs to be allowed to play, because he is an asset to the team when playing, he should be playing because he is a better all around player than others playing, he is one of the best point generators on the team...history has shown this to be true. He should be playing because he should be a part of the future, whereas, those still playing and not being scratched should not be future players on this team.
I am on this forum everyday, and I want what is best for the players growth, and maximizing the players potential to be the best player he can be FOR THE FLYERS. I don't care about winning this year or next, and neither should you. They are no where near ready to compete, and they need the time to get their assets in the lineup, draft more, replace the coach, and build a proper foundation for the team to thrive for years. Thinking we are anything this year is just delusional.

I am not saying they can't play hard, compete, and have players taking steps forward...this is supposed to be a rebuild. But when the coach is on record saying he won't develope players at the cost of a win, during a rebuild just shows how wrong he is for where the team is at currently.

I want ND gone from the lineup because he doesn't fit the mold of what a current hockey player is...like the Rathje's and Murzyns are no longer a role on the teams.

The best thing for the team is for their young to grow and develope and learn from their mistakes, but Torts just wants to win at all costs. It's wrong.

Obviously Zamula is not NHL ready and instead of letting him get crushed every game and letting him lose confidence they will play him in situations where he can exceed.

Brink is almost NHL ready but just quite have the stamina needed, so he will sit once in awhile.

It's like you are upset that they team dares to win. They should immediately stop trying to win and play rookies.

Am I happy that they are winning, hell yeah. Do i know that the winning comes at a cost of a better draft pick, yes. But I finally can watch my Flyers and enjoy the games
- WhiskeyMan

Hmm…

Personally I’m willing to live with Zamula’s mistakes if Staal is the 7th man. I don’t know who is playing tonight but I’d prefer a Zamula and Ristolainen pair over a Staal and Ristolainen pair.

You really don’t think Brink is NHL ready right now? I’m going to state a very unpopular opinion. I like Brink’s compete level and willingness to make risky plays more than Frost’s willingness this season. To the point that I kinda wonder what Brink might look like at center. Same as what the Flyers did with Giroux. This is no knock on Frost. I kind of feel like Frost plays it safe in his playmaking this season and understandably so under these circumstances.

I have no issue with Tortorella trying to win. I think this team has a pretty good idea on how to lose.

And did you see them cheering on ND when he was in the fight.......great stuff there. Love ND or hate him. I think the players are showing they like him on the team, gave him player of the game also. Great for the locker room, which was needed for a while now.
- bradster

Yup, pretending those fights don’t give the team a jolt just isn’t true