i havent said this to you for a long time, but you deserve it for this: youre a moron
- THE BLACK HAND

Thanks, I missed that. But seriously, what has G ever won? When has he ever lead a team to win anything? He claimed he only wanted to go to Florida and tied the Flyers hands from making the best deal possible for their future. So off he goes to a President's trophy winning team and bang, they are out of the playoffs in the 2nd round in a 4 game sweep. But hey, G wants to win a Cup so as a FA he can go anywhere he wants, maybe stay with the Panthers, or play for Tampa, or maybe Colorado, or good heavens, Boston? NOPE, the guy that wants to win heads home to Ottawa, a team that was in a rebuild. This year that same team was expected to take the next steps and instead they are currently in last place and their coach is about to be fired. Never mind his time in Philly, where he had some very nice regular seasons, but never got out of the 2nd round of the playoffs after his rookie year when that team magically went to the finals. But as captain of the team, I never heard G speak out about the direction of the club, or wanting to compete for a cup. Nope, he just quietly went about his business. Atkinson comes to the Flyers after 1 season and states there is a country club attitude with the club. Who is responsible for that, maybe the captain of the team? So this is my case why I think Giroux is nothing more than a fraud that sure likes to play hockey, but could care less about winning. I respect your opinion, prove me wrong.

Not according to jd250...lol
- TheFreak

I never said the G wasn't a good player, just that he is a fraud and Suck follows him wherever he goes.

Love what torts has done with the locker room, the culture is winning games, despite our lack of talent. And its rare we come out and play with no effort. The days of G and Jake are long history. Wouldve been great to have this culture when the skill of those guys were still here.
- bradster

Exactly, which is why I believe this Flyers team is playing the best hockey the Flyers have seen in over a decade.

Thanks, I missed that. But seriously, what has G ever won? When has he ever lead a team to win anything? He claimed he only wanted to go to Florida and tied the Flyers hands from making the best deal possible for their future. So off he goes to a President's trophy winning team and bang, they are out of the playoffs in the 2nd round in a 4 game sweep. But hey, G wants to win a Cup so as a FA he can go anywhere he wants, maybe stay with the Panthers, or play for Tampa, or maybe Colorado, or good heavens, Boston? NOPE, the guy that wants to win heads home to Ottawa, a team that was in a rebuild. This year that same team was expected to take the next steps and instead they are currently in last place and their coach is about to be fired. Never mind his time in Philly, where he had some very nice regular seasons, but never got out of the 2nd round of the playoffs after his rookie year when that team magically went to the finals. But as captain of the team, I never heard G speak out about the direction of the club, or wanting to compete for a cup. Nope, he just quietly went about his business. Atkinson comes to the Flyers after 1 season and states there is a country club attitude with the club. Who is responsible for that, maybe the captain of the team? So this is my case why I think Giroux is nothing more than a fraud that sure likes to play hockey, but could care less about winning. I respect your opinion, prove me wrong.
- jd250

Wait, you actually respect his opinion? That's your first mistake.

Cap friendly still lists Belpedio but its 7.
- MBFlyerfan

When was Belpedio waived?

From Keith Jones interview recently:


So there is the answer, if the Flyers are in it come deadline time they will not be buyers but it's very possible they will not be sellers either.
- jd250

We'll see when the time comes.

When was Belpedio waived?
- MJL

Monday. Cleared last night.

FACT, not opinion!
- jd250

No it's an opinion, and a stupid one at that. Since there are factually a number of teams that Giroux was on here that played better than this current team is. Including one team that went to the Stanley Cup finals. You're not aware of the actual facts are you? It's either that, or the facts from the fantasy world that you live in.

Thanks, I missed that. But seriously, what has G ever won? When has he ever lead a team to win anything? He claimed he only wanted to go to Florida and tied the Flyers hands from making the best deal possible for their future. So off he goes to a President's trophy winning team and bang, they are out of the playoffs in the 2nd round in a 4 game sweep. But hey, G wants to win a Cup so as a FA he can go anywhere he wants, maybe stay with the Panthers, or play for Tampa, or maybe Colorado, or good heavens, Boston? NOPE, the guy that wants to win heads home to Ottawa, a team that was in a rebuild. This year that same team was expected to take the next steps and instead they are currently in last place and their coach is about to be fired. Never mind his time in Philly, where he had some very nice regular seasons, but never got out of the 2nd round of the playoffs after his rookie year when that team magically went to the finals. But as captain of the team, I never heard G speak out about the direction of the club, or wanting to compete for a cup. Nope, he just quietly went about his business. Atkinson comes to the Flyers after 1 season and states there is a country club attitude with the club. Who is responsible for that, maybe the captain of the team? So this is my case why I think Giroux is nothing more than a fraud that sure likes to play hockey, but could care less about winning. I respect your opinion, prove me wrong.
- jd250

There are a few things missing here and much that you are not aware of or didn't consider. The biggest thing missing is any actual real proof that Giroux is the reason for all of this. The rest of your ranting here is simply misguided bias and anecdotes.
Giroux had a NMC clause and therefore had every right to choose which team he wanted to be traded to. As a UFA, he had every right to choose the team he wanted to play for. For whatever reasons he chose.
Most importantly, let me know when Atkinson puts the team on his back, single handedly carries the team to the playoff with a 100+ point season and a top finish in Hart trophy voting for the league's MVP. Anyone who witnessed that and claims that Giroux doesn't care about winning. Is exactly what Black Hand said he is. That was one of the greatest Flyer individual seasons I've seen in my lifetime.

You also have no concept of what leadership actually is or how it manifests itself. Some leaders are outspoken. Some keep it in the room. You've been brainwashed by Tortorella in thinking that it's about culture, standards, honesty, work ethic and the locker room. It's about play on the ice. Giroux walked that walk, his entire time as a Flyer. There is plenty of factual proof of that but we know that you don't like real facts. Prove you wrong? LOL. You didn't offer a dam thing to prove yourself correct. Prove me wrong!

There are a few things missing here and much that you are not aware of or didn't consider. The biggest thing missing is any actual real proof that Giroux is the reason for all of this. The rest of your ranting here is simply misguided bias and anecdotes.
Giroux had a NMC clause and therefore had every right to choose which team he wanted to be traded to. As a UFA, he had every right to choose the team he wanted to play for. For whatever reasons he chose.
Most importantly, let me know when Atkinson puts the team on his back, single handedly carries the team to the playoff with a 100+ point season and a top finish in Hart trophy voting for the league's MVP. Anyone who witnessed that and claims that Giroux doesn't care about winning. Is exactly what Black Hand said he is. That was one of the greatest Flyer individual seasons I've seen in my lifetime.

You also have no concept of what leadership actually is or how it manifests itself. Some leaders are outspoken. Some keep it in the room. You've been brainwashed by Tortorella in thinking that it's about culture, standards, honesty, work ethic and the locker room. It's about play on the ice. Giroux walked that walk, his entire time as a Flyer. There is plenty of factual proof of that but we know that you don't like real facts. Prove you wrong? LOL. You didn't offer a dam thing to prove yourself correct. Prove me wrong!
- MJL

We continue down this rabbit hole and I have limited time this morning (do you work?), but I kind of agree with JD here. Giroux was very talented and has excelled at the NHL level, but I don't think he's a leader. A leader drags his team into the fight when they aren't really into it on a given night. That's why I want TK as the captain of the current team. He's the type that will drag his team into the fight and others will follow. He brings it every night. TK isn't as talented as Giroux, but he's a better leader IMO. There were way too many nights when the Flyers looked disinterested when Giroux/Voracek were the faces of the franchise and I found it to be very frustrating to watch. This current team is probably less talented than those Giroux led teams, but this team brings it every night and those teams didn't.

We continue down this rabbit hole and I have limited time this morning (do you work?), but I kind of agree with JD here. Giroux was very talented and has excelled at the NHL level, but I don't think he's a leader. A leader drags his team into the fight when they aren't really into it on a given night. That's why I want TK as the captain of the current team. He's the type that will drag his team into the fight and others will follow. He brings it every night. TK isn't as talented as Giroux, but he's a better leader IMO. There were way too many nights when the Flyers looked disinterested when Giroux/Voracek were the faces of the franchise and I found it to be very frustrating to watch. This current team is probably less talented than those Giroux led teams, but this team brings it every night and those teams didn't.
- Phillywhiteout

Giroux's 102 point season and a 5th place finish in Hart trophy voting wasn't dragging his team into the fight? Giroux being routinely the best player on the team night after night, is not dragging the team into it. Giroux didn't bring it every night? You're seriously going to compare Konecny to Giroux? What in the hell are you talking about? Unbelievable. Konecny isn't half the player or the leader that Giroux was here. You asked me if I work. I have a question for you. Do you think?

Giroux's 102 point season and a 5th place finish in Hart trophy voting wasn't dragging his team into the fight? Giroux being routinely the best player on the team night after night, is not dragging the team into it. Giroux didn't bring it every night? You're seriously going to compare Konecny to Giroux? What in the hell are you talking about? Unbelievable. Konecny isn't half the player or the leader that Giroux was here. You asked me if I work. I have a question for you. Do you think?
- MJL

Yes, I use my own mind and have my own opinions thank you very much. I'm not a stat geezer such as yourself. Do you read or work? I said that TK wasn't as talented as Giroux and this argument isn't about talent. On many nights Giroux/Voracek coasted. Those teams would sleepwalk their way through first period and always get off to slow starts. Sometimes they slept through entire games. Very frustrating...and stats can't measure that. And now I have to go. Thanks!

Yes, I use my own mind and have my own opinions thank you very much. I'm not a stat geezer such as yourself. Do you read or work? I said that TK wasn't as talented as Giroux and this argument isn't about talent. On many nights Giroux/Voracek coasted. Those teams would sleepwalk their way through first period and always get off to slow starts. Sometimes they slept through entire games. Very frustrating...and stats can't measure that. And now I have to go. Thanks!
- Phillywhiteout

A player can't become the all time assist leader in franchise history and the second all time points leader in franchise history by coasting. He can't be a perennial all star level player and a multiple time top 5 finisher in the Hart trophy voting by coasting. The stats actually can measure that. Your opinion is pure nonsense. By any measure.

FACT, not opinion!
- jd250

Your opinion is a load of steaming crap...Giroux is a great player, and well respected around the league by players and management.

You are the ONLY one with this opinion. And again you are wrong.

A player can't become the all time assist leader in franchise history and the second all time points leader in franchise history by coasting. He can't be a perennial all star level player and a multiple time top 5 finisher in the Hart trophy voting by coasting. The stats actually can measure that. Your opinion is pure nonsense. By any measure.
- MJL

You're wrong! There are some things that stats can't measure. I watched the games and sometimes it was a disgrace. They sucked in the playoffs under Giroux with the exception of 2010 (when Grioux wasn't the captain) and the one series against the Pens in 2012 (when the Pens lost their collective minds). Non competitive when the sh!t hit the fan. I really like Giroux as a player, but the country club thing isn't as far fetched as you make it pout to be. I don't want make this sound as if I don't respect Giroux as a player cause that's not the case, but I never looked at him as a leader that could kick someone in the ass when needed. Good day!

Thanks, I missed that. But seriously, what has G ever won? When has he ever lead a team to win anything? He claimed he only wanted to go to Florida and tied the Flyers hands from making the best deal possible for their future. So off he goes to a President's trophy winning team and bang, they are out of the playoffs in the 2nd round in a 4 game sweep. But hey, G wants to win a Cup so as a FA he can go anywhere he wants, maybe stay with the Panthers, or play for Tampa, or maybe Colorado, or good heavens, Boston? NOPE, the guy that wants to win heads home to Ottawa, a team that was in a rebuild. This year that same team was expected to take the next steps and instead they are currently in last place and their coach is about to be fired. Never mind his time in Philly, where he had some very nice regular seasons, but never got out of the 2nd round of the playoffs after his rookie year when that team magically went to the finals. But as captain of the team, I never heard G speak out about the direction of the club, or wanting to compete for a cup. Nope, he just quietly went about his business. Atkinson comes to the Flyers after 1 season and states there is a country club attitude with the club. Who is responsible for that, maybe the captain of the team? So this is my case why I think Giroux is nothing more than a fraud that sure likes to play hockey, but could care less about winning. I respect your opinion, prove me wrong.
- jd250

This happens all the time...President winners out first or second round.......so is Bertuzzi crap? because he went to the Bruins who set all time records, and they lost in the first round. Then he went to Toronto, and they are performing below expectations. This must be all on Bertuzzi. Same flawed logic as you are spewing.

I never said the G wasn't a good player, just that he is a fraud and Suck follows him wherever he goes.
- jd250

So he is a good player who sucks?

Again, your logic is mind boggling.

We continue down this rabbit hole and I have limited time this morning (do you work?), but I kind of agree with JD here. Giroux was very talented and has excelled at the NHL level, but I don't think he's a leader. A leader drags his team into the fight when they aren't really into it on a given night. That's why I want TK as the captain of the current team. He's the type that will drag his team into the fight and others will follow. He brings it every night. TK isn't as talented as Giroux, but he's a better leader IMO. There were way too many nights when the Flyers looked disinterested when Giroux/Voracek were the faces of the franchise and I found it to be very frustrating to watch. This current team is probably less talented than those Giroux led teams, but this team brings it every night and those teams didn't.
- Phillywhiteout

I can agree with that to an extent. But Giroux was brought to Florida as a playoff chip, no more. He wasn't brought there to upend the core of Barkov, Huberdeau, Ekblad, etc.
In Ottawa, they already had Tkachuk, Stuzle, etc...he was brought in to help them get over the hump, and as a point producer for them and vet presence, he is doing just that.

My issue with jd250 on this is that he is claiming Giroux was to blame for Florida's exit in the playoffs, and for Ottawa's current situation. He is producing, and playing well for a mid 30's vet presence. He is not the only vet player or talented player on either of those teams, and is not the reason for them playing below expectations. I think the way he is being viewed by jd250 is wrong.

new blob.

Thank god

You're wrong! There are some things that stats can't measure. I watched the games and sometimes it was a disgrace. They sucked in the playoffs under Giroux with the exception of 2010 (when Grioux wasn't the captain) and the one series against the Pens in 2012 (when the Pens lost their collective minds). Non competitive when the sh!t hit the fan. I really like Giroux as a player, but the country club thing isn't as far fetched as you make it pout to be. I don't want make this sound as if I don't respect Giroux as a player cause that's not the case, but I never looked at him as a leader that could kick someone in the ass when needed. Good day!
- Phillywhiteout

You're badly confused and are conflating team accomplishment with individual player performance. The greatest way any player can lead on a team is with on ice performance. The greatest way any player can set an example for teammates is with on ice performance. Giroux had that in spades and is one of the top players in franchise history. Who brought it to the ice every game for 1000 games as a Flyer. Playing through injury and giving it everything he had. That is indisputable and supported by all relevant facts.

So he is a good player who sucks?

Again, your logic is mind boggling.
- TheFreak

G is a good guy and a great player, but I don't believe he has a deep desire to win, therefore he is not a good leader.

We continue down this rabbit hole and I have limited time this morning (do you work?), but I kind of agree with JD here. Giroux was very talented and has excelled at the NHL level, but I don't think he's a leader. A leader drags his team into the fight when they aren't really into it on a given night. That's why I want TK as the captain of the current team. He's the type that will drag his team into the fight and others will follow. He brings it every night. TK isn't as talented as Giroux, but he's a better leader IMO. There were way too many nights when the Flyers looked disinterested when Giroux/Voracek were the faces of the franchise and I found it to be very frustrating to watch. This current team is probably less talented than those Giroux led teams, but this team brings it every night and those teams didn't.
- Phillywhiteout

spot on

I can agree with that to an extent. But Giroux was brought to Florida as a playoff chip, no more. He wasn't brought there to upend the core of Barkov, Huberdeau, Ekblad, etc.
In Ottawa, they already had Tkachuk, Stuzle, etc...he was brought in to help them get over the hump, and as a point producer for them and vet presence, he is doing just that.

My issue with jd250 on this is that he is claiming Giroux was to blame for Florida's exit in the playoffs, and for Ottawa's current situation. He is producing, and playing well for a mid 30's vet presence. He is not the only vet player or talented player on either of those teams, and is not the reason for them playing below expectations. I think the way he is being viewed by jd250 is wrong.
- TheFreak

G is not to blame, but the the bottom line is his team's are not winning, so he is not doing anything to make that happen. He has a track record his entire career, and I think that has to be considered.

G is a good guy and a great player, but I don't believe he has a deep desire to win, therefore he is not a good leader.
- jd250

You believe being the key word. Of course there is zero legitimate evidence to support that belief.

G is not to blame, but the the bottom line is his team's are not winning, so he is not doing anything to make that happen. He has a track record his entire career, and I think that has to be considered.
- jd250

He absolutely has a track record that has to be considered. The problem is that you're clueless as to what that track record actually is.