You keep talking as if this is a short and limited process. It is not. You're being fooled here by this team. They aren't what you think they are. It's fools gold. You represent the segment of the fanbase that the team is targeting. Just give them a competitive team and they'll act like they hit the lottery. "I'm so happy we have a team that is fun to watch and is competitive. Reeled in like a dead fish.
- MJL

On the other hand your discontent is not going to make the team change how they're doing things. So, who's to say whose approach makes the most sense?

rebuild does NOT equal tanking and losing. It would be a horrible mistake for this franchise to accept losing in order to get as many top picks and prospects as they can. That is not how to build a team. Torts has specifically stated he has to balance between winning and playing young players that are not ready for the NHL. This team is not tanking, they are trying to win every game and that is how you build a team. Ask Buffalo, Ottawa and Edmonton how tanking and accepting losing has worked for them.
- jd250

why has buffalo and edmonton failed? look forward to your response.

depends on what they want to give up. With the cap going up next year, is a 3x$5M contract all that bad for a defenseman that can give you top 4 minutes? If the money does not work, the team can give up a late 1st round pick, then it would be worth the Flyers retaining some salary.
- jd250

His increased value is kind of fool’s gold. 21-22 19 min ES, last year his metrics spiked but only 16 min ES. This year his ES is 14:30. So his success is tied to his usage declining. So yes the 3x5 Mil at that term is prohibitive even with the Cap going up.

why has buffalo and edmonton failed? look forward to your response.
- hello it's me 2050

They both need a real goalie

why has buffalo and edmonton failed? look forward to your response.
- hello it's me 2050

Terrible contract management and an inability to draft well regularly. Far too many whiffs on high draft picks. Neither has done a good job deciding on when to go all in either.

Terrible contract management and an inability to draft well regularly. Far too many whiffs on high draft picks. Neither has done a good on when to go all in either.
- mickel25

they put themselves in a position to get the best draft picks. They did well in that area. Passed the 1st part of "tanking".

Where they have failed is terrible terrible management. From top to bottom.

So you'd rather them be a punching bag for the league and totally suck every night for what may or may not be a successful rebuild/tank down the road?
- Phillywhiteout

No why would they have to be a punching bag for the league? I want them to prioritize playing all young NHL ready players over veterans. With enough a veteran presence to support them. Be as competitive as you can while developing those players. No reason why the Flyers can't be competitive with the young talent they have now and what is coming.

On the other hand your discontent is not going to make the team change how they're doing things. So, who's to say whose approach makes the most sense?
- Dkos

How is giving an approval going to make anything change? If the standard is going to be how does our opinions effect change on the team. Then why is anyone posting? History tells us what approach makes the most sense. History tells us the Flyers approach doesn't equal the success that should be the goal. History tells us that Tortorella's M.O is to take a team, have it play a tight grinding style of play. Improve and become competitive to the point where he's considered a miracle worker. Never really get close to the ultimate goal. He eventually moves on and then the team just flounders in that position until players age or leave and then the cycle starts again.

they put themselves in a position to get the best draft picks. They did well in that area. Passed the 1st part of "tanking".

Where they have failed is terrible terrible management. From top to bottom.
- hello it's me 2050

Right. Confirming that simply tanking is not the be all end all. Honestly, the Pens are the only team to get "tanking" right in any sport. The did it twice and got five cups out of it.

I guess I will concede the Astros as well. I do not like including them cause they are cheaters but you cannot deny their success.

Right. Confirming that simply tanking is not the be all end all. Honestly, the Pens are the only team to get "tanking" right in any sport. The did it twice and got five cups out of it.

I guess I will concede the Astros as well. I do not like including them cause they are cheaters but you cannot deny their success.
- mickel25

The Blackhawks didn't tank?

The Blackhawks didn't tank?
- MJL

Technically I guess. But it was not a coordinated tank by the organization. They just had an owner that refused to put any money into the team for an extended period. He did it because he was cheap. Not to accumulate enough high end talent to win 3 cups in 6 seasons.

Confusing as we want a rebuild, but the kids are actually playing and improving right now. Part of the rebuild as already happened. The reason why this team is in the playoffs is selke is healthy and the kids are performing. Obviously we need more from frost or we need the coach to commit to playing frost or both, but in general the kids are getting better. I dont give a rats ars if its called a rebuild or tank or process or whatever. I want young kids to play and get better and for the most part it appears that is happening. Their window will be when Mich comes over until he gets paid 15 mill. They will prob need to pay a dman in fa then and maybe even a center. Michcovs gonna be ready to roll when he comes over and the prospect of the flyers being basement dwellers is not gonna get him all that excited. They flyers need to be peaking between 2.5 years from now to when Michcov signs his big deal. I would trade those with expiring contracts like Walker at the deadline, but i would not move Koneckny. He gets resigned. Risto will eventually go to a team that understands you need to play a heavy game in the playoffs. This is not a tear down. The timing does not make sense as we would stink for Michcovs first few yrs.

The Blackhawks didn't tank?
- MJL

what happened in chi had more to do other stuff. it was not their hockey opps strategy to tank. look at the money they gave to jones. tanking teams dont do that. their goal was to remove themselves from the spotlight.

Confusing as we want a rebuild, but the kids are actually playing and improving right now. Part of the rebuild as already happened. The reason why this team is in the playoffs is selke is healthy and the kids are performing. Obviously we need more from frost or we need the coach to commit to playing frost or both, but in general the kids are getting better. I dont give a rats ars if its called a rebuild or tank or process or whatever. I want young kids to play and get better and for the most part it appears that is happening. Their window will be when Mich comes over until he gets paid 15 mill. They will prob need to pay a dman in fa then and maybe even a center. Michcovs gonna be ready to roll when he comes over and the prospect of the flyers being basement dwellers is not gonna get him all that excited. They flyers need to be peaking between 2.5 years from now to when Michcov signs his big deal. I would trade those with expiring contracts like Walker at the deadline, but i would not move Koneckny. He gets resigned. Risto will eventually go to a team that understands you need to play a heavy game in the playoffs. This is not a tear down. The timing does not make sense as we would stink for Michcovs first few yrs.
- 26912 PP1

Just stop committing long term to every player that plays well for a season in the orange and black. Also I want the GM to realize the teams chances of winning the cup in the near future and make his moves based on that. For example, move Walker, Tippett and Seeler at the TDL this season. Knowing full well that will diminish the teams chances in the playoffs.

How is giving an approval going to make anything change?
- MJL

It's not

If the standard is going to be how does our opinions effect change on the team. Then why is anyone posting?

Because we are fans of the Flyers and like to discuss what happens in the games.

History tells us what approach makes the most sense. History tells us the Flyers approach doesn't equal the success that should be the goal. History tells us that Tortorella's M.O is to take a team, have it play a tight grinding style of play. Improve and become competitive to the point where he's considered a miracle worker. Never really get close to the ultimate goal. He eventually moves on and then the team just flounders in that position until players age or leave and then the cycle starts again.

History also tells us that the Flyers will most likely never take the the approach that you want. So what now?

So then he's not the Flyers best defenseman?

- MJL

Sure he is ...

His increased value is kind of fool’s gold. 21-22 19 min ES, last year his metrics spiked but only 16 min ES. This year his ES is 14:30. So his success is tied to his usage declining. So yes the 3x5 Mil at that term is prohibitive even with the Cap going up.
- Minnyhock

Risto can effectively play 18-20 minutes a night, that constitutes a 2nd pairing defenseman.

why has buffalo and edmonton failed? look forward to your response.
- hello it's me 2050

because both teams tanked and accepted losing and eventually you get a losing culture that infects every new player that joins the team. Watch this segment to understand where I am coming from.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFADcfQHVpI

Risto can effectively play 18-20 minutes a night, that constitutes a 2nd pairing defenseman.
- jd250

I think he can be a 2nd pair guy as well… he’s was at least that for most of his career in Buffalo. I think he has some solid attributes for sure, but have to admit his play since signing the extension has just been ok. In hind sight moving him before the extension would have been the right move. Now we have a guy slightly over paid in a cash strapped league.
Maybe the Flyers could take back a expiring contract to facilitate a deal this year, but I’m hoping they can move him out and allow some of the younger guys to get a look as the year goes on.

Just stop committing long term to every player that plays well for a season in the orange and black. Also I want the GM to realize the teams chances of winning the cup in the near future and make his moves based on that. For example, move Walker, Tippett and Seeler at the TDL this season. Knowing full well that will diminish the teams chances in the playoffs.
- mickel25

Tippett has been infuriating lately. I see no reason why he shouldn’t be in torts doghouse

You keep talking as if this is a short and limited process. It is not. You're being fooled here by this team. They aren't what you think they are. It's fools gold. You represent the segment of the fanbase that the team is targeting. Just give them a competitive team and they'll act like they hit the lottery. "I'm so happy we have a team that is fun to watch and is competitive. Reeled in like a dead fish.
- MJL

Yes the Flyers are a competitive team but to me what makes it exciting is how they are competing. They are not winning games because of players that will not be here next year or a couple of seasons. They are winning these games because of players they have drafted and/or developed: Hart, Ersson, Sanheim, York, Couts, TK, Foerster, Tippet, etc. This Flyers team reminds me very much of the Flyers 1982-83 team, where you had Clarke, Barber and Sittler, but you also had Propp, Kerr, Sinisalo and Flockhart coming up. And within 3 years that team was competing for the cup with a new core and an old school coach. It can be the same way now.

Technically I guess. But it was not a coordinated tank by the organization. They just had an owner that refused to put any money into the team for an extended period. He did it because he was cheap. Not to accumulate enough high end talent to win 3 cups in 6 seasons.
- mickel25

I'm pretty sure the Blackhawks methods were universally considered a tank.

Yes the Flyers are a competitive team but to me what makes it exciting is how they are competing. They are not winning games because of players that will not be here next year or a couple of seasons. They are winning these games because of players they have drafted and/or developed: Hart, Ersson, Sanheim, York, Couts, TK, Foerster, Tippet, etc. This Flyers team reminds me very much of the Flyers 1982-83 team, where you had Clarke, Barber and Sittler, but you also had Propp, Kerr, Sinisalo and Flockhart coming up. And within 3 years that team was competing for the cup with a new core and an old school coach. It can be the same way now.
- jd250

I don’t see three future hall of famers on the Flyers roster..

Tippett has been infuriating lately. I see no reason why he shouldn’t be in torts doghouse
- Just5

Oh, that's because Torts only puts players with last names 5 letters long into the dog house.

I don’t see three future hall of famers on the Flyers roster..
- landros 2

My point is it was a transitional period, moving out of the old guard and establishing a new core. I believe we are experiencing this right now.