Tortorella has been an NHL coach for over 20 years. He has been a polarizing figure as a coach. There are a ton of players who liked playing for him. Probably overwhelmingly so versus players that didn't like him. Doesn't change the fact that there have been many, many players who didn't like playing for him. Well documented sources state that a player mutiny, led to the Ranger firing him. It is not difficult to use google and find plenty of information, player comments on Tortorella as a coach. It's pretty easy to do.

Here is the main point though. Tortorella being disliked by players, was NEVER my position on why I don't like Tortorella as a coach. I have NEVER stated in a post that Tortorella is universally disliked by players, hated by more than have liked, or any variation of that. Of course, I have discussed that aspect of his career and that there have been players that disliked playing for him but it has never been my main focus on why I dislike Tortorella as a coach.

My position on Tortorella has always been that I think he is an archaic coach, whose systems and style of play are tilted too much to the defensive side of the game. Does not coach offensive play and transition well enough to be a top contending team. His systems and style of play are limiting in how far a team can go. I also think he is a poor coach in terms of young player development who dislikes high level offensive skill players and favors the grinders and checkers too much. All of my comments on Tortorella are on the public record and well documented.

Even to he point of today, on the other thread that I'd be perfectly willing to overlook some of his issues in how he treats players, if he coaches the team to winning the cup. In a hypothetical sense of course.
- MJL

any link or articles? follow your own advice and provide said documentation like you tell others to do.

Tortorella has been an NHL coach for over 20 years. He has been a polarizing figure as a coach. There are a ton of players who liked playing for him. Probably overwhelmingly so versus players that didn't like him. Doesn't change the fact that there have been many, many players who didn't like playing for him. Well documented sources state that a player mutiny, led to the Ranger firing him. It is not difficult to use google and find plenty of information, player comments on Tortorella as a coach. It's pretty easy to do.

Here is the main point though. Tortorella being disliked by players, was NEVER my position on why I don't like Tortorella as a coach. I have NEVER stated in a post that Tortorella is universally disliked by players, hated by more than have liked, or any variation of that. Of course, I have discussed that aspect of his career and that there have been players that disliked playing for him but it has never been my main focus on why I dislike Tortorella as a coach. I challenge anyone to prove otherwise.

My position on Tortorella has always been that I think he is an archaic coach, whose systems and style of play are tilted too much to the defensive side of the game. Does not coach offensive play and transition well enough to be a top contending team. His systems and style of play are limiting in how far a team can go. I also think he is a poor coach in terms of young player development who dislikes high level offensive skill players and favors the grinders and checkers too much. All of my comments on Tortorella are on the public record and well documented.

Even to he point of today, on the other thread that I'd be perfectly willing to overlook some of his issues in how he treats players, if he coaches the team to winning the cup. In a hypothetical sense of course.
- MJL

Care to explain what’s so archaic about this team since they are 10th in expected goals in the league after 40% of the season complete? You’ve mentioned many time that this team won’t score and yet somehow they do and continue to create chances. Guess you were wrong again Cliff .
https://moneypuck.com/teams.htm

Cutter looked like sh!t today
- ClaudeFather

But Michkov is healthy again

But Michkov is healthy again
- mikeyo27

Didn’t know he was hurt

Cam last night, soon as he got the puck was looking to get rid of it. I hope this is his rock bottom
- wcorvette

noticeably the same habit in the 2 previous games as well. i like the way torts is handling the group overall, but there is little justification for him to remain in the lineup outside of possible cap implications or there being absolutely nobody on the phantoms who deserves a quick looksee.

he’s even on the first pp unit. his pk effort has been middling at best. appreciate him sticking up for a teammate but it was very poorly timed last night. very fortunate it didn’t narrow the gap to 3-2 and have them reeling with hart off the bench. he deserves a seat in the cote suite. to be clear i’m not happy about this…i want him to succeed, but he’s fallen off a cliff.

LOL yeah, we need a moderator in here. Someone who isnt going to end up like SuperNanny after 3 days with Cartman.

- MBFlyerfan

i would never want a moderator in here. i can’t help but giggle - the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Didn’t know he was hurt
- ClaudeFather

I believe he had pneumonia.

Didn’t know he was hurt
- ClaudeFather

He wasn't, he had pneumonia.

I don’t understand why anyone gives a damn if players like a coach or not. Scotty Bowman, according to Ken Dryden in his book “The Game”, was universally detested by the Habs. Both Mike Keenan and Ken Hitchcock weren’t exactly beloved by most of their players either.

Xs & Os and most of all, on ice success is what matters. It’s not a popularity contest.

i would never want a moderator in here. i can’t help but giggle - the more things change, the more they stay the same.
- hammarby31

so you do not like tattle tale rat finks!!! funny when peeps ask for a moderator.

I will volunteer to be one

so you do not like tattle tale rat finks!!! funny when peeps ask for a moderator.

I will volunteer to be one
- hello it's me 2050

let it be a free-for-all like in the newsgroups on usenet back in the 90s. it’s entertaining.

let it be a free-for-all like in the newsgroups on usenet back in the 90s. it’s entertaining.
- hammarby31

agree 100% and then some

Tortorella has been an NHL coach for over 20 years. He has been a polarizing figure as a coach. There are a ton of players who liked playing for him. Probably overwhelmingly so versus players that didn't like him. Doesn't change the fact that there have been many, many players who didn't like playing for him. Well documented sources state that a player mutiny, led to the Ranger firing him. It is not difficult to use google and find plenty of information, player comments on Tortorella as a coach. It's pretty easy to do.

Here is the main point though. Tortorella being disliked by players, was NEVER my position on why I don't like Tortorella as a coach. I have NEVER stated in a post that Tortorella is universally disliked by players, hated by more than have liked, or any variation of that. Of course, I have discussed that aspect of his career and that there have been players that disliked playing for him but it has never been my main focus on why I dislike Tortorella as a coach. I challenge anyone to prove otherwise.

My position on Tortorella has always been that I think he is an archaic coach, whose systems and style of play are tilted too much to the defensive side of the game. Does not coach offensive play and transition well enough to be a top contending team. His systems and style of play are limiting in how far a team can go. I also think he is a poor coach in terms of young player development who dislikes high level offensive skill players and favors the grinders and checkers too much. All of my comments on Tortorella are on the public record and well documented.

Even to he point of today, on the other thread that I'd be perfectly willing to overlook some of his issues in how he treats players, if he coaches the team to winning the cup. In a hypothetical sense of course.
- MJL

We are waiting for you to compile this list like I have.

Bring something to the table.

Wereknski and Jones disagree.

The Flyers are not a high scoring team. They rank 21st in G/GP averaging 3.0 goals per game. They're a solid scoring team at 5 on5 with the 11th most goals scored at 5 on 5. They have the 2nd worst PP in the league at 11.2%. They've scored 11 PP goals which ranks 30th in the league. What's helping them greatly is that they lead the league in shorthanded goals with 9. The Flyers have scored the 23rd most goals total in the league. Now shorthanded goals certainly count but if we remove the shorthanded goals, the Flyers have scored the 5th least number of goals in the league at 5 on 5 and on the PP. Only Anaheim, Chicago, Washington and San Jose have scored less. The Flyers don't have a scorer in the top 60 in the league.

The Flyers are not a high scoring team. They rank 21st in G/GP averaging 3.0 goals per game. They're a solid scoring team at 5 on5 with the 11th most goals scored at 5 on 5. They have the 2nd worst PP in the league at 11.2%. They've scored 11 PP goals which ranks 30th in the league. What's helping them greatly is that they lead the league in shorthanded goals with 9. The Flyers have scored the 23rd most goals total in the league. Now shorthanded goals certainly count but if we remove the shorthanded goals, the Flyers have scored the 5th least number of goals in the league at 5 on 5 and on the PP. Only Anaheim, Chicago, Washington and San Jose have scored less. The Flyers don't have a scorer in the top 60 in the league.
- MJL

what would you accept in a trade for Walker and/or Seeler? Never did see your reply.

The Flyers are not a high scoring team. They rank 21st in G/GP averaging 3.0 goals per game. They're a solid scoring team at 5 on5 with the 11th most goals scored at 5 on 5. They have the 2nd worst PP in the league at 11.2%. They've scored 11 PP goals which ranks 30th in the league. What's helping them greatly is that they lead the league in shorthanded goals with 9. The Flyers have scored the 23rd most goals total in the league. Now shorthanded goals certainly count but if we remove the shorthanded goals, the Flyers have scored the 5th least number of goals in the league at 5 on 5 and on the PP. Only Anaheim, Chicago, Washington and San Jose have scored less. The Flyers don't have a scorer in the top 60 in the league.
- MJL

10th in the league in expected goals. How would an archaic coach achieve this? Avoiding the tough questions huh. Everything you’ve stayed points to torts doing a great job 5 on 5 where 90% of the game is played.

what would you accept in a trade for Walker and/or Seeler? Never did see your reply.
- hello it's me 2050

Include the PP and exclude the short handed goals lol classic Cliff.

10th in the league in expected goals. How would an archaic coach achieve this? Avoiding the tough questions huh. Everything you’ve stayed points to torts doing a great job 5 on 5 where 90% of the game is played.
- ClaudeFather

When an opinion is offered that the Flyers are going to have trouble scoring, does that mean that they're going to have trouble generating quality scoring chances or does that mean that they're going to have issues putting the puck in the net? Does that really need to be explained to you? Apparently so. In looking at the Flyers goal scoring, I completely broke down how many goals they scored and in what situations and how they compare to the rest of the league. So how am I avoiding the question? I know you don't like that the data shows that I'm correct but that doesn't mean that in your fantasy world that's not the case. The Flyers are actually scoring better at 5 on 5 than I expected. The Flyers are doing better than many thought they would overall, including me. They're a pretty solid 5 on 5 team overall so far. However they still don't have enough offensive talent and that shows by not having a scorer in the top 60 in the league and having an epically bad PP. That lack of scoring talent combined with what I feel is poor coaching and system design offensively is why the Flyers are overall a below average offensive team.


Flyers are 12th in the league in xGF% at 5 on 5

https://www.naturalstattr...all&loc=B&gpf=410&fd=&td=

When an opinion is offered that the Flyers are going to have trouble scoring, does that mean that they're going to have trouble generating quality scoring chances or does that mean that they're going to have issues putting the puck in the net? Does that really need to be explained to you? Apparently so. In looking at the Flyers goal scoring, I completely broke down how many goals they scored and in what situations. So how am I avoiding the question? I know you don't like that the data shows that I'm correct but that doesn't mean that in your fantasy world that's not the case. The Flyers are actually scoring better at 5 on 5 than I expected. The Flyers are doing better than many thought they would overall, including me. They're a pretty solid 5 on 5 team overall so far. However they still don't have enough offensive talent and that shows by not having a scorer in the top 60 in the league and having an epically bad PP. That lack of scoring talent combined with what I feel is poor coaching and system design offensively is why the Flyers are overall a below average offensive team.


Flyers are 12th in the league in xGF% at 5 on 5

https://www.naturalstattr...all&loc=B&gpf=410&fd=&td=
- MJL

Avoiding the question again, how is torts system archaic when they are generating scoring chances with the top 10 teams in the league? Should I ask the question again in another way for you or are you understanding yet?

"no one will challenge me!"

you mentioned there's plenty of players that hate Tortorella. I provide the above. You ignore it.

more of the same from you... you've got nothing


wilting like a flower
- anti-lame

The only dementia i see in Torts now, is that he put that corpse Staal on the ice to often.

Avoiding the question again, how is torts system archaic when they are generating scoring chances with the top 10 teams in the league? Should I ask the question again in another way for you or are you understanding yet?
- ClaudeFather

Now you're asking a different question now that I've had to explain to you the difference between actually scoring goals and creating scoring chances. Moving the goal posts now that you've been proven wrong. We can discuss that. The First thing I want to state and reiterate is that I have said many times, that the number one issue with the Flyers, is a lack of elite talent. Now let's address offense.

The Flyers rank 21st in the league in SCF%

https://www.naturalstattr...all&loc=B&gpf=410&fd=&td=

In my opinion, Tortorella's system and style of play, is limiting offensively. It does not take enough chances offensively. Does not generate enough transition offense. Lack the neutral zone movement and breakout post ups and regroups that generate speed and attack. It relies on tight checking, conservative position on the puck and a 2-1 spread forecheck. I think his forechecking scheme is completely fine. Where they lack coaching in terms of system and actual application of coaching is offensive movement and attack within the offensive zone. Both at 5 on 5 and on the PP. It relies too much offensively on individual play rather than offensive structure and off the puck movement creating openings and offensive creation. Tomahawk posted a great youtube video awhile back with Martin St. Louis talking about how offense is created. It is enlightening and very educational. I'll link it again if I can find it. I encourage you to watch it.

In general, Tortorella deserves credit for getting player buy in and getting the team to play a cohesive team system. Throughout his career, he has been able to do this. He has always been able to improve teams and get them playing better hockey. His system and style of play, hides deficiencies of a roster. Which is why currently why the Flyers are in a playoff spot without having any elite players, not having a scorer in the top 60 in the league. Not having a legit top defensive pairing and playing Nick Seeler in the top 4.

My position on Tortorella has never been that he can't improve a team or coach a team to the playoffs. I have stated umpteen times that Tortorella led teams have only made it past the 2nd round of the playoffs once in his last 16 years as a coach. I have never stated that his teams don't improve or can't make the playoffs. My further position is that his system and style of play can only take a team so far. It is limiting. It is archaic and not a modern day NHL puck pressure transition system. It is a defensive first forechecking system. The same system he has been playing for over 20 years. All of that combined with his poor player development, his favoritism for checking players and grinders over skill and speed players. Add in his idiosyncrasies if you will or personality disorders'. Even worse add in his clear influence on the future path of this franchise. All contributes to my opinion that he is the wrong coach for the future of this franchise. He may be the right coach for now but he is in my opinion, not putting the team on the path to true cup contention. It doesn't matter to me if the team makes the playoffs this year or not. I don't see my opinion changing on Tortorella. I'm focused on the big picture and not short term gain. I believe in time when all is said and done, I will be proven correct. I really and truly hope that I'm wrong though. I want the same as everyone else wants. I want the Flyers to win the Stanley Cup.

Didn’t know he was hurt
- ClaudeFather

Apparently he had pneumonia and had missed several games

so you do not like tattle tale rat finks!!! funny when peeps ask for a moderator.

I will volunteer to be one
- hello it's me 2050

With professor snitch lurking around you don’t need moderators. Snitch will inform the powers that be and get you a ban.

Now you're asking a different question now that I've had to explain to you the difference between actually scoring goals and creating scoring chances. Moving the goal posts now that you've been proven wrong. We can discuss that. The First thing I want to state and reiterate is that I have said many times, that the number one issue with the Flyers, is a lack of elite talent. Now let's address offense.

The Flyers rank 21st in the league in SCF%

https://www.naturalstattr...all&loc=B&gpf=410&fd=&td=

In my opinion, Tortorella's system and style of play, is limiting offensively. It does not take enough chances offensively. Does not generate enough transition offense. Lack the neutral zone movement and breakout post ups and regroups that generate speed and attack. It relies on tight checking, conservative position on the puck and a 2-1 spread forecheck. I think his forechecking scheme is completely fine. Where they lack coaching in terms of system and actual application of coaching is offensive movement and attack within the offensive zone. Both at 5 on 5 and on the PP. It relies too much offensively on individual play rather than offensive structure and off the puck movement creating openings and offensive creation. Tomahawk posted a great youtube video awhile back with Martin St. Louis talking about how offense is created. It is enlightening and very educational. I'll link it again if I can find it. I encourage you to watch it.

In general, Tortorella deserves credit for getting player buy in and getting the team to play a cohesive team system. Throughout his career, he has been able to do this. He has always been able to improve teams and get them playing better hockey. His system and style of play, hides deficiencies of a roster. Which is why currently why the Flyers are in a playoff spot without having any elite players, not having a scorer in the top 60 in the league. Not having a legit top defensive pairing and playing Nick Seeler in the top 4.

My position on Tortorella has never been that he can't improve a team or coach a team to the playoffs. I have stated umpteen times that Tortorella led teams have only made it past the 2nd round of the playoffs once in his last 16 years as a coach. I have never stated that his teams don't improve or can't make the playoffs. My further position is that his system and style of play can only take a team so far. It is limiting. It is archaic and not a modern day NHL puck pressure transition system. It is a defensive first forechecking system. The same system he has been playing for over 20 years. All of that combined with his poor player development, his favoritism for checking players and grinders over skill and speed players. Add in his idiosyncrasies if you will or personality disorders'. Even worse add in his clear influence on the future path of this franchise. All contributes to my opinion that he is the wrong coach for the future of this franchise. He may be the right coach for now but he is in my opinion, not putting the team on the path to true cup contention. It doesn't matter to me if the team makes the playoffs this year or not. I don't see my opinion changing on Tortorella. I'm focused on the big picture and not short term gain. I believe in time when all is said and done, I will be proven correct. I really and truly hope that I'm wrong though. I want the same as everyone else wants. I want the Flyers to win the Stanley Cup.
- MJL

this is just false, they have no issue generating transition offense. Do you even watch the team. They get a fair share of their offense through odd man rushes. Hell, Tippett alone gets a couple breakaways a game. His style of play has clearly done nothing to neuter scoring chances provided by all the data out there, whether they have the players to actually score is another story.

LOL yeah, we need a moderator in here. Someone who isnt going to end up like SuperNanny after 3 days with Cartman.

- MBFlyerfan

after the last hypocritical, naploleaon complex-having delicate sensibility censorsoring nazi, no thanks